Kanzenshuu

I do. Piccolo could budge Super 13 with his bare hands. He couldn't do anything to Cell with a heavily amplified attack. Nothing 13 does puts him at Cell's level.

I think that even Imperfect Cell could've done what Goku did.

Indeed it does. Surviving something doesn't really require an impressive power. Nappa is a testament to that. And it fits Pikkon's personality to not instantly finish off Goku.

Yes, SPC letting himself be beaten and thrown in jail like a whipped dog and not getting back up and beating the shit out of Pikkon despite clearly being alive, ruining the point of the scene in the process and rendering everyone's reactions invalid, definitely makes the most sense. Goku would defin...

Then the Hyper Tornando wasn't quite 4 times stronger than Goku AND Goku could actually brace himself, unlike Nappa AND Goku could use his ki to defend himself more effectively than Nappa AND Pikkon was probably screwing around considering his taunting of Goku, high suppression when fighting base Go...

That doesn't really prove anything. Remember Nappa surviving two hits from Kaio-Ken x2 Goku, a x4 gap? Pikkon being stronger than SPC contradicts nothing.

What says that it's more powerful than Burning Shot? I thought Burning Shot was similar to Kaio-Ken? And I don't remember Goku surviving two. He survived one with heavy injuries and dodged a second one. Nappa was able not to die when getting hammered by Goku. He even "tanked" two hits from...

"Tanking"? Is that what you call being beaten so hard that you're covered in bruises and blood and can barley stand? While your opponent isn't even going seriously and taunting you all the while, deeming you not even worthy of his fire kick or whatever that was? The most impressive thing G...

Not really. Draken you can take over. You really think Goku could have fought SPC when he can't even keep up with PC before going full power. He would not be able to touch Paikuhan if he had such a hard time with Supressed PC who wasn't even at full strength. He wasn't keeping up with Pikkon at all...

I think a weaker fusion (i.e. Gogeta) would've worked better. Then we can have our climatic battle. Buu could win after a tough battle and absorb Gogeta. Everything looks hopeless, forcing Gogeta to reveal his ace in the hole at the last second. Cue the rest of the Buu Arc.

Yeah, so? That's an obvious contradiction but Pikkon vs Goku is perfectly plausible with Pikkon being Super Perfect Cell level, making everything make sense.

Pikkon never did that though. He didn't need to since he was already so much stronger than Goku. Again, nothing Goku did in this fight can't be done with a x2 or more gap. Also, Pikkon seemed to be having fun taunting Goku and was obviously heavily suppressed at the beginning of the fight. Him just ...

...and? Yeah, SPC, who's somewhere around five times Vegeta's strength, could one-shot him. What's your point? Also, Pikkon never used the Burning Shot against Goku. Since Goku is half his strength and the Burning Shot is likely amplified, it's understandable.

Let's make this simple. Goku is at the same difference it takes for Gohan to one shot a Cell Junior. Paikuhan being above SPC would mean that one clean shot to Goku's face, and he's dead. Doubt it. Gohan was well over four times as strong as a Cell Junior. The gap between Pikkon and Goku doesn't ha...

Goku was still shown to be able to trade blows and fight with him. Of course Paikuhan was stronger and had the advantage, but if we go by the level he previously showed against SPC, he should be able to one shot Goku easily. Goku would not be able to touch him either. Paikuhan at one point can't pu...

SPC = probably around 2x of Gohan's normal SSJ2, seeing as Gohan SSJ2 half power enraged could defeat SPC. So Goku (weaker than Gohan, unless the quote asked by mjb is provided) with Super Kaioken would be weaker than Gohan's normal SSJ2, aka half of SPC, aka he would take no damage. Nappa vs Goku,...

Hopefully someone can get the quote. I'd like to see that, that would be huge for Paikuhan. Why? Him taking no damage from Super Kaioken Goku should be a more impressive show of power than easily beating someone weaker than Buu Arc SS Goku. His blast that stalemated with Paikuhan's begs to differ. ...

It seemed obvious to me Pikkon was just having fun. Goku couldn't do anything against him and Pikkon was obviously suppressing his power for at least one part of the fight. Why not for the rest? Also nothing he did against Pikkon couldn't have been done by someone who was half of Pikkon's strength. ...

I remember that being posted on a thread here. Could've been inaccurate. And no, Freeza couldn't simply fly through it. He had to put effort into deflecting Goku's kamehameha when he saw it coming, and even then it still hurt his hand. Pikkon got hit by a surprise attack that was well over twice as ...

Yes. Normal Goku didn't land a single hit on Pikkon, despite him being noted to have powered up insanely fast since the Cell Games. Even when he caught Pikkon by surprise AND used techniques that doubled his power (Kamehameha and Super Kaioken) he still did absolutely no damage. Just pushed him a li...