Quality of Discussion on Kanzenshuu Going Downhill?

[VegettoEX]

Granted there are boards and certain topics I never go into, but are one-word comments so rampant they need purging right away?

Yeah, I don't get it. I don't see these happening anywhere. It's rare that I feel I'm jumping in to comment on them and request additional content from members.

[Eddie]

How about adding a "Like" button to individual posts, many forums have it nowadays.
So instead of having a "This" useless post, we just have "X and Y like this post" at the bottom of the post.

I think that "Like" buttons just encourage people to try to come up with some sort of mildly entertaining post for the sake of being Mr. Popular on the internet. If you really want to tell somebody you like their post, why not just send them a PM letting them know?

[TheGmGoken]

How about adding a "Like" button to individual posts, many forums have it nowadays.
So instead of having a "This" useless post, we just have "X and Y like this post" at the bottom of the post.

I think that "Like" buttons just encourage people to try to come up with some sort of mildly entertaining post for the sake of being Mr. Popular on the internet. If you really want to tell somebody you like their post, why not just send them a PM letting them know?

Really? I'm on multiple forums and NONE(all besides wrestling forum and Kanzenshui have like button) have people who make jokes for likes. Only on BleacherReport you ser that. Sending a Pm for liking a post is rather a pain

[MarcFBR]

Sending a Pm for liking a post is rather a pain

I think this is likely a side effect of how things worked when the internet was a bit new. I remember it being rather normal to send someone a private message on a board or in a chatroom if they said something you particularly liked, and I've actually still done it in recent years (and still gotten some in fact.) Although often it's also to continue the discussion when it might not make sense to continue it publicly.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

So... anyone still think the quality of discussion has gone down after the thread remained inactive for two months?

[JulieYBM]

I've become better at completely ignoring threads that don't catch my eye, so call that pitch as you will.

[Ajay]

Not really.

Like with every new wave of users, there's sometimes a few who take a little longer to coming around to the general level of quality expected of each post but nothing totally terrible.

If anything, I think things have mostly improved. Arguments and debates in some of the general discussion threads have mostly been mature and calm with any bitchiness kept off the forum or reserved for other places.

[Blade]

I've become better at completely ignoring threads that don't catch my eye, so call that pitch as you will.

I can sort of relate to that. I've found myself dipping into fewer and fewer threads here recently, as often even when the subject matter catches my eye, just reading the first few pages of discussion are enough to deter me from bothering to get involved.

I know that might come off as being incredibly snobby or elitist on first impression, but I honestly don't mean it like that! Sometimes the flow of a debate goes in such a way that I feel that the sort of response I would want to make would probably be out of place, or detract from the direction that the thread is going in. There's nothing worse than the guy who pops up in the middle of a thread with a 'now for something completely different' sort of post.

But I guess that's my problem, really.

[El Diabeetus]

I've become better at completely ignoring threads that don't catch my eye, so call that pitch as you will.

I can sort of relate to that. I've found myself dipping into fewer and fewer threads here recently, as often even when the subject matter catches my eye, just reading the first few pages of discussion are enough to deter me from bothering to get involved.

I know that might come off as being incredibly snobby or elitist on first impression, but I honestly don't mean it like that! Sometimes the flow of a debate goes in such a way that I feel that the sort of response I would want to make would probably be out of place, or detract from the direction that the thread is going in. There's nothing worse than the guy who pops up in the middle of a thread with a 'now for something completely different' sort of post.

But I guess that's my problem, really.

I see nothing wrong with this way of thinking. Actually mirrors my thoughts as of late on this discussion. In discussions, I'm usually interested in a different part of the discussion of said topic. But, like you I don't want to be 'that guy' and disrupt the flow of the aforementioned, hypothetical discussion.

[Lozjudai]

As an active "lurker" on these forums I really have not seen any quality drop on this site. Actually I even would say that quality has risen! I have even enjoyed reading In-Universe Discussion more because there is less: "is x character stronger than character y".

[Chuquita]

I feel like it's going to pick up even further once more DB15 info (both plot and outside) begin really trickling in. Following BOG through the Kanzenshuu forums was a lot of fun; hoping to have just as much once DB15 info begins more readily pouring out.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

So I tried to put a positive spin on this thread when I first created it, but I will not deny that, lately, my attitude towards this forum has been rather negative, particularly in regards to a certain movie thread. The thing is, I know I'm not the only one, which is why I think it's necessary to revive (heh, revive) this thread. I think these opinions need to be heard, because it'd be awfully sad for peoples' memories of this forum to be soured now, when we've had so many fun years (almost a decade!) previously.

I'd just like to make it clear that this isn't an attack on the moderators do and the job they do. I recognize that managing this forum at a time when it's never been busier, is a near impossible job. But nor is it an attack on other members. I guess I'm just trying to provide a place for people to provide feedback for the forum community as a whole. What you'd like to see more of from other members, what you don't like to see, what aspects each individual member can improve on, so we can make this a better experience for each other.



The site's awesome by the way, go check out the site.

[Tyro]

I don't think I can be deny it any longer: ever since the Battle of Gods boom, Kanzenshuu has attracted a lot of new users who treat the forum like a chat room instead of a thought-provoking discussion board. I'm not going to name any names, but I'm positively disgusted by the number of times I have to read posts from people who have nothing to say. "This." "That's cool." "I agree." "Broli, AMIRITE?" "[quotes GIANT FUCKING PICTURE FOR THE FOURTH TIME on the same page]"

Like you said, I love the moderators. I love the website. I appreciate absolutely everything Kanzenshuu has done. But sometimes I wish VegettoEX would go a little old-school on people who only exist to spam topics. It just...Agh! It grinds my gears so much to see Kanzenshuu, the forum where you had best watch your P's and Q's, turned into posting: the game.

If your account is less than 6 months old and your post count is in the thousands, maybe you should really consider if you're contributing or just here to shoot the shit with a little bit of Dragon Ball talk thrown in.

[Zephyr]

I can't help but feel that the discussion quality has gone down as of late. The are still plenty of users making worthwhile contributions to conversations, but it's being drowned out, it seems, but the hordes of the kinds of posts Tyro described. I mean, I actually had to just start putting people on my ignore list the other day for the first time since I joined the forums.

[Kamiccolo9]

I can't help but feel that the discussion quality has gone down as of late. The are still plenty of users making worthwhile contributions to conversations, but it's being drowned out, it seems, but the hordes of the kinds of posts Tyro described. I mean, I actually had to just start putting people on my ignore list the other day for the first time since I joined the forums.

Same. Prior to January of this year, I had only ever put one member on "ignore," (and he was banned the next day, so it didn't really affect anything.)

But after this new movie thread really got going, the endless cesspool of negativity and personal attacks and "Toriyama should just quit" and my new personal favorite "it's my opinion," without actually explaining their opinions, I blocked a person. And then another. And then another. And suddenly, there are entire pages of that thread that I'm skipping over because they are on my ignore list.

As much as I hate to say it, the entitlement of this fanbase is astounding. We get the first movie in almost 20 years? Half of the people, drunk on the anonymity of the internet, hate it, call Toriyama out on "ruining" Dragon Ball, say that he's obviously lost his touch, insult his other recent work, accuse him of not following his own story because it doesn't' jive with their own made-up rules for it, and so on.

And then a second movie gets announced, which from all the information that we got, looked to address some, not all, but some of the common problems that the first movie may have had, and what do we get? Page after page after page after page of relentless "criticism." Not only against the movie, but against Toriyama himself. I don't care how much you dislike what the man is doing, where does anyone here get off on telling the man to fuck off and leave his own franchise alone?

And then some people, when asked to stop with the ceaseless negativity, answer with "well no one ever tells the people praising the movie to stop." Well no fucking shit. A positive outlook isn't as fucking toxic to the community as a negative one. A positive outlook doesn't drive people to ignore half a dozen members in order to be able to peacefully find out more about the new movie.

And then, speaking of power levels, we have threads like this one, which was created solely as a way of getting it out of the big thread. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=29453 The problem is, at the time it was created, all of this stuff was based on absolutely nothing! We had ZERO information on any of this! Speculation is all well and good, but this thread was full of people, again, bashing the movie, who were spouting out "facts" based on 1 second clips in the trailer! In the big movie thread, we had people who have, for MONTHS, been proclaiming that the movie would go EXACTLY the way they said it would, insulting people who said otherwise, or who just asked them to wait until we had more information, and they NEVER STOPPED. Out of a warped sense of masochistic stubbornness, I looked up one user's posts, and found over a hundred and fifty references to Vegeta obviously being the main character of the new movie and attacking anyone who disagreed, dating back to August in the movie thread alone, based solely on what the movie poster looked like.


It's not even just new users. Long time members here have been swept up into this cesspool of toxicity. I don't even know if it's because of the movie, as things weren't nearly this bad for the last one. I mean, how many times has Mike posted in the movie thread saying things to the effect of "Stop embarrassing us?"

[Gyt Kaliba]

As much as I hate to say it, the entitlement of this fanbase is astounding. We get the first movie in almost 20 years? Half of the people, drunk on the anonymity of the internet, hate it, call Toriyama out on "ruining" Dragon Ball, say that he's obviously lost his touch, insult his other recent work, accuse him of not following his own story because it doesn't' jive with their own made-up rules for it, and so on.

And then a second movie gets announced, which from all the information that we got, looked to address some, not all, but some of the common problems that the first movie may have had, and what do we get? Page after page after page after page of relentless "criticism." Not only against the movie, but against Toriyama himself. I don't care how much you dislike what the man is doing, where does anyone here get off on telling the man to fuck off and leave his own franchise alone?

And then some people, when asked to stop with the ceaseless negativity, answer with "well no one ever tells the people praising the movie to stop." Well no fucking shit. A positive outlook isn't as fucking toxic to the community as a negative one. A positive outlook doesn't drive people to ignore half a dozen members in order to be able to peacefully find out more about the new movie.

This, so much so this. I never thought I'd see the day when I'd see Dragon Ball fans act worse than I've heard Star Wars fans act, or worse than I've personally seen TMNT fans act...but we've pretty much FAR crossed over that threshold at this point. And it's absolutely disgusting.

Even with my own potential (because I don't feel I can truly and fairly judge the new film until I've seen it for myself) uneasiness about the new film, now that we do know a little more about what it entails, the level to which a lot of users here as of late have steeped the entire forum in toxicness, and turned it into a bubbling cesspool of negativity, is just...ugh. It's annoying, it's disgusting, it makes it almost impossible to enjoy conversation with people that aren't ready to just jump up and go 'THIS SUCKS' at the drop of a hat, and frankly, it's been going on far too long. Far be it from me to try and tell the site runners how to run their site, because 1) it's their site and at the end of the day, their decision, and 2) I'm not exactly a stranger to seeing a community I'm in charge of suddenly overtaken by negativity...but something needs to be done, badly.

I'm not calling for excessive force to be thrown down upon the posters. I'm not saying people can't talk about stuff they don't like. And insert-deity-here knows that I understand that the staff and moderators have their own things, their own lives, that have to come far before seeing what people are saying on the forum. At this point however, the community is in serious need of some re-enforcement of that 'super shonen' spirit that was so often talked about before all of this went down. I love this site. I love this community. This is pretty much the only forum that I'm even remotely active on anymore, where I don't just lurk, but I post semi-regularly. To see what it's become and what it seems to be becoming is just depressing beyond what I can express. And, again, not to speak for people that I'm not, but I can't imagine it looks or feels any better to the staff either.

I've vented my spleen. Hopefully I haven't overstepped my bounds, but I felt it had to be said.

[Ajay]

In August 2014, you can see I disagreed with this topic, saying that things were fine and that it was just a few newer members taking a while to settle in. Now, I have to agree with the topic...ish.

The problem resides almost entirely within the Fukkatsu no F thread. This new movie has brought in a huge amount of newcomers who seem to have very little interest in having rational discussion. I'm seeing a lot of emotionally riled posts, verbose rants, and misinformed tirades that are just bringing the entire mood down for anyone with a shred of level-headedness. It is sad that I can go to bed, wake up to 20 new pages, and find absolutely nothing worth reading on them.

I don't see any issue with people speaking negatively of the film, but very few of the posts that are negative are actually written with any tact or care. Reasonable criticism is fine. Baseless rants are not. Determining the difference and cracking down on the offenders should help clear things up.

I know that the staff are aware of the issue, and I know from various tweets that it seems they're at a loss as to how to handle this burst in popularity. Verbal warnings seem to go ignored, and it's not like some of these posts are really worthy of temporary bans, but what can be done? Maybe the moderators really do need to be harsh in times like this. Make examples of repeated offenders by responding to their posts with breakdowns as to why it was unacceptable. From my searches through older threads, it seems this was a common tactic a few years ago - I wonder why it was abandoned?

I don't know whether there's a desire to avoid appearing elitist or, at worst, pretentious in your moderation, but I feel the lack of public example-making is leading to an atmosphere that is far from the Kanzenshuu I signed up for.

There's a rule on the EvaGeeks forum - "Don’t be a killjoy. Avoid monotonous negative posting or nihilism baiting." - I'd love to see that enforced here.

Posting style aside, a major issue is the lack of structure within the thread. There are just too many conversations happening at one time; it is impossible to keep things coherent when everyone is talking about a million different things. I know the staff were opposed to the idea, but I think a general subforum for the film is an absolute necessity now. Let us structure the conversation! It'll make your lives easier when it comes to tracking offending topics, and it'll make the navigation for information far easier on everyone. Even if it's just temporary, I think it's a must.

Best of luck in working this mess out. I know you guys aren't happy with how things are, so I hope our suggestions or criticisms will be at least slightly helpful in ironing out the kinks!

[Chuquita]

Fukkatsu no F thread has been overwhelming as of late.
Last month was the first time ever that I actually began to use the "ignore" feature; and I've been here a long time. I find myself skimming through pages of that fast-moving F thread where I used to read every post. I'm still subscribed to the thread, and I do post in it, but it's mostly because I'm waiting to see if any new commercials appear, or any new screenshots; I'm also waiting around for the detailed F summary that'll be written/posted after the country-wide release of the movie (because I want all the details on everything happening with Gokû and Vegeta in this movie that I feel will definitely be in the detailed summary).

If anything, I think a lot of the movie's expectations were misled through advertising the same way BOG's were, and people became upset. However, a lot of people are staying upset and it's really starting to eat at the thread. I think the reason the vitriol is so much stronger is because a lot of people are holding Freeza to a higher standard than a new villain would've been; at least if I compare reactions to him being brought back to Beerus being introduced for the first time.

I'm really hoping once the wider releases start happening in a couple weeks, and as more people see it and as we know more about it that everyone will calm down some.

[TripleRach]

Yeah, the Fukkatsu no F thread is definitely overwhelming to keep up with. It's gained about 200 pages over the past week, despite the fact that we've deleted numerous short/joke/off-topic posts. Some of the worst offenders have received account strikes or even bans, and unfortunately there will probably be more to come over time.

But it's not that I want to complain about people here. I've actually had this slight sense of guilt, because I feel like an evil authority figure versus the young rebels. I mean, we want people to feel welcome and to have fun discussing Dragon Ball. And some people do seem to learn from their mistakes and become better contributors over time.

So... I don't know. I guess I'm just rambling in the name of transparency.

[The Tori-bot]

Posting style aside, a major issue is the lack of structure within the thread. There are just too many conversations happening at one time; it is impossible to keep things coherent when everyone is talking about a million different things. I know the staff were opposed to the idea, but I think a general subforum for the film is an absolute necessity now. Let us structure the conversation! It'll make your lives easier when it comes to tracking offending topics, and it'll make the navigation for information far easier on everyone. Even if it's just temporary, I think it's a must.

Yup. At this point I can't see any sense whatsoever in maintaining a single thread for the movie(s). But then I would say that, wouldn't I...