The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

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Professor Freeza
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:33 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:They don't want to delete old threads. There was an issue last year in which they dialed back editing privileges for everybody so that people couldn't delete their old content.

And "what's the point?" The point of the forum is to have discussion. Your distaste for the current organization doesn't prevent that.
My ability to FIND the discussion threads is being hampered. Which affects my ability to have a discussion.

Thats the whole point. A badly made section really hampers discussions

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:40 am

And yet these threads are still active, and discussion is still happening....hmmm....

I'm not even saying that you don't have a point. But the "real life isn't an excuse to let the forum about a cartoon get somewhat disorganized" sentiment is a prime example of childish entitlement. You have staff here admitting it's an issue, be happy. It'll be handled when they get around to it. It's not like you're being charged for being here or anything.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:52 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:And yet these threads are still active, and discussion is still happening....hmmm....

I'm not even saying that you don't have a point. But the "real life isn't an excuse to let the forum about a cartoon get somewhat disorganized" sentiment is a prime example of childish entitlement. You have staff here admitting it's an issue, be happy. It'll be handled when they get around to it. It's not like you're being charged for being here or anything.
Okay then why dont they give SOME control to those who are really active here. Someone who organizes the posts only.

I named Lord Beerus and Sintzu. They both seem good people.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:56 am

Professor Freeza wrote:My ability to FIND the discussion threads is being hampered. Which affects my ability to have a discussion.

Thats the whole point. A badly made section really hampers discussions
Your ability to find thread is not hampered, you have a search function at the top right of the forum that you can use to find topics of your interest, use it.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:00 am

Professor Freeza wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And yet these threads are still active, and discussion is still happening....hmmm....

I'm not even saying that you don't have a point. But the "real life isn't an excuse to let the forum about a cartoon get somewhat disorganized" sentiment is a prime example of childish entitlement. You have staff here admitting it's an issue, be happy. It'll be handled when they get around to it. It's not like you're being charged for being here or anything.
Okay then why dont they give SOME control to those who are really active here. Someone who organizes the posts only.

I named Lord Beerus and Sintzu. They both seem good people.
You've been here 3 weeks. Not really a good person to be recommending people for mod.

They did recently add some new mods. TheDevilsCorpse, who posted in this thread, is one of the newer ones. For whatever reason, though, they aren't big on increasing the size of the staff. That's their prerogative. If I had put that much of my time, money, and life into something, I'd be wary about entrusting authority over it to somebody I don't fully trust too.
Again, this is a minor aesthetic issue that will not overly hinder anyone who wants to put any real effort into their posting anyway. It's hardly a priority.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:14 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:And yet these threads are still active, and discussion is still happening....hmmm....

I'm not even saying that you don't have a point. But the "real life isn't an excuse to let the forum about a cartoon get somewhat disorganized" sentiment is a prime example of childish entitlement. You have staff here admitting it's an issue, be happy. It'll be handled when they get around to it. It's not like you're being charged for being here or anything.
Okay then why dont they give SOME control to those who are really active here. Someone who organizes the posts only.

I named Lord Beerus and Sintzu. They both seem good people.
You've been here 3 weeks. Not really a good person to be recommending people for mod.

They did recently add some new mods. TheDevilsCorpse, who posted in this thread, is one of the newer ones. For whatever reason, though, they aren't big on increasing the size of the staff. That's their prerogative. If I had put that much of my time, money, and life into something, I'd be wary about entrusting authority over it to somebody I don't fully trust too.
Again, this is a minor aesthetic issue that will not overly hinder anyone who wants to put any real effort into their posting anyway. It's hardly a priority.

Alright. I dont want to fight this battle. Ill stick to r/dbz more

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:48 pm

Childish entitlement? Give me a break. Because I want to know when something that has been broken for months will be fixed, that makes me entitled?

I guess when you encounter a problem, the “grown up” thing to do is to just continue to ignore it and never question it? Like I said before, the “we have jobs” excuse doesn’t make any sense when this problem has been existing for months. Why, again, is asking for an update on a months-long problem a childish and entitled thing to do?

You’re essentially saying that we can never give any kind of feedback regarding the forums because they’re ran for free. That’s absurd. I’m not expecting the lightning fast reaction and catering of a business or a company or something, but just asking for a little transparency on something that has gone without update for so long, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And I very, very much highly doubt that there are so many new people constantly breaking rules that no one has has a chance to get around to this. Especially because I’ve seen with my own eyes that most cases of public moderator intervention are for insanely minor issues. I’d argue that someone putting in two sentences instead of a paragraph of their thoughts in the episode discussion thread is a lot less of a priority than having the issue of the front page getting more and more flooded with stickies every single week.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:05 pm

Asura wrote:Childish entitlement? Give me a break. Because I want to know when something that has been broken for months will be fixed, that makes me entitled?

I guess when you encounter a problem, the “grown up” thing to do is to just continue to ignore it and never question it? Like I said before, the “we have jobs” excuse doesn’t make any sense when this problem has been existing for months. Why, again, is asking for an update on a months-long problem a childish and entitled thing to do?

You’re essentially saying that we can never give any kind of feedback regarding the forums because they’re ran for free. That’s absurd. I’m not expecting the lightning fast reaction and catering of a business or a company or something, but just asking for a little transparency on something that has gone without update for so long, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

And I very, very much highly doubt that there are so many new people constantly breaking rules that no one has has a chance to get around to this. Especially because I’ve seen with my own eyes that most cases of public moderator intervention are for insanely minor issues. I’d argue that someone putting in two sentences instead of a paragraph of their thoughts in the episode discussion thread is a lot less of a priority than having the issue of the front page getting more and more flooded with stickies every single week.
Dont bang your head on a wall. I PM'd the admin over 24 hours ago. Dont even bother to reply to post here. Let this go.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 pm

The four of us generally don't reply to these kinds of things, because unlike what some people tend to pin them as, they're not actually "important" or "essential" or "imperative" when put in context of the larger website. However, the continued responses make it a little difficult to ignore.

First thing's first: anyone who's providing the excuse of "they have lives, leave them alone!"... while that's appreciated, these people don't know us, don't work for the website, and don't speak for any of the four of us that do. We take our work on the website as a whole very seriously, hopefully in an appropriate balance with the rest of our lives.
Asura wrote:Why, again, is asking for an update on a months-long problem a childish and entitled thing to do?
It's not the request itself; rather, it's the tone of these requests, prominently on display here. Rather than "Hey, any status updates on this thing that doesn't really affect anything but I'm just kinda curious about?" it's "God those lazy people can't be bothered to work on this tiny website?!" This one in particular is a giant tirade with screen shots and circled elements, not written as genuine suggestions, but as... well, a tirade, as I just said. Why pay something like that any mind?

It's a bit frustrating to see little regard for the "problem" (if you want to call it that?) and actual thought put into why it may be that way. There was some derpy user-error on our side, we lost some data, and we'll fix it when we can. It involves some database work, something that none of the four of us actually do for a living and therefore have to spend a little extra time working and consulting on. We haven't adjusted the layout and categorization of that sub-forum because it's far easier for us to leave well enough alone and keep as many database tables identical as possible for when we get a chance to properly restore what we can (and compromise on anything else we need to). I'm flabbergasted that no-one's tossed that out there as a possibility. I feel like this is something so reasonable and logical that it doesn't even need to be said... which is why we haven't bothered to say it.

And this is all over episode discussion threads, something entirely unimportant in context of the on-going mission of the website. As some folks have rightfully pointed out, it's had no effect whatsoever on the continued amount of traffic and posts in each thread in that particular sub-forum.

Could maybe we adjust some sticky threads? Sure! We're open to that. We've had lots of suggestions about that over the years that we've accommodated. The thing is, when we accommodate requests, it's generally in response to polite and friendly requests, not someone barging in with, "No, no, you're doing it all wrong." And sure enough, all the other sections and their stickies are the ones being cited as reference points... which again leads me to wonder why no-one else is wondering why we might have left well enough alone in the meantime.

I also can't for the life of me, and in slight contrast against that "let them have their lives!" excuse from before, believe that someone can honestly and with a straight face report that on New Year's Eve they didn't get a response from a forum moderator in the last 24 hours and this is somehow unacceptable. See: entitlement.

So let me be clear: no, the categorization and reinstatement of certain episode discussion threads in a sub-forum is not actually that important and is being prioritized appropriately as such.

This all ultimately leads me to the usual semi-exasperated response of: "There's a site, too?!" I do still find it frustrating when people equate the forum as the website itself. It's but one portion. Forum ≠ Website.

I honestly, truly do apologize for being a little testy in my response here, but I'm a little bit agitated that our own community haven't posited more logical and reasonable responses from time to time on this stuff.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:34 pm

That wraps it up then.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:46 pm

VegettoEX wrote:The four of us generally don't reply to these kinds of things, because unlike what some people tend to pin them as, they're not actually "important" or "essential" or "imperative" when put in context of the larger website. However, the continued responses make it a little difficult to ignore.

First thing's first: anyone who's providing the excuse of "they have lives, leave them alone!"... while that's appreciated, these people don't know us, don't work for the website, and don't speak for any of the four of us that do. We take our work on the website as a whole very seriously, hopefully in an appropriate balance with the rest of our lives.
Asura wrote:Why, again, is asking for an update on a months-long problem a childish and entitled thing to do?
It's not the request itself; rather, it's the tone of these requests, prominently on display here. Rather than "Hey, any status updates on this thing that doesn't really affect anything but I'm just kinda curious about?" it's "God those lazy people can't be bothered to work on this tiny website?!" This one in particular is a giant tirade with screen shots and circled elements, not written as genuine suggestions, but as... well, a tirade, as I just said. Why pay something like that any mind?

It's a bit frustrating to see little regard for the "problem" (if you want to call it that?) and actual thought put into why it may be that way. There was some derpy user-error on our side, we lost some data, and we'll fix it when we can. It involves some database work, something that none of the four of us actually do for a living and therefore have to spend a little extra time working and consulting on. We haven't adjusted the layout and categorization of that sub-forum because it's far easier for us to leave well enough alone and keep as many database tables identical as possible for when we get a chance to properly restore what we can (and compromise on anything else we need to). I'm flabbergasted that no-one's tossed that out there as a possibility. I feel like this is something so reasonable and logical that it doesn't even need to be said... which is why we haven't bothered to say it.

And this is all over episode discussion threads, something entirely unimportant in context of the on-going mission of the website. As some folks have rightfully pointed out, it's had no effect whatsoever on the continued amount of traffic and posts in each thread in that particular sub-forum.

Could maybe we adjust some sticky threads? Sure! We're open to that. We've had lots of suggestions about that over the years that we've accommodated. The thing is, when we accommodate requests, it's generally in response to polite and friendly requests, not someone barging in with, "No, no, you're doing it all wrong." And sure enough, all the other sections and their stickies are the ones being cited as reference points... which again leads me to wonder why no-one else is wondering why we might have left well enough alone in the meantime.

I also can't for the life of me, and in slight contrast against that "let them have their lives!" excuse from before, believe that someone can honestly and with a straight face report that on New Year's Eve they didn't get a response from a forum moderator in the last 24 hours and this is somehow unacceptable. See: entitlement.

So let me be clear: no, the categorization and reinstatement of certain episode discussion threads in a sub-forum is not actually that important and is being prioritized appropriately as such.

This all ultimately leads me to the usual semi-exasperated response of: "There's a site, too?!" I do still find it frustrating when people equate the forum as the website itself. It's but one portion. Forum ≠ Website.

I honestly, truly do apologize for being a little testy in my response here, but I'm a little bit agitated that our own community haven't posited more logical and reasonable responses from time to time on this stuff.
That's fine if you don't like the tone of the opening post or the OP's responses in general, but for people like myself and Anime Kitten, we just wanted to know the answer to a months-old question, and unfortunately the answer to that question still seems to be "we don't know". No, It's not the most important thing in the world or a major issue that needs solving right away, but a database error resulting in the loss of close to 100 archived threads shouldn't be brushed off as trivial either and sent to the backburner. That then leads to the problem that the OP is complaining about which is how the Super subforum looks.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the missing threads that haven't been given any answer to than the appearance of the subforum that the OP is making a big deal out of, but the two technically go hand-in-hand. I wouldn't expect a reply on New Years Eve either, and it's definitely quite absurd for the OP to ask for one. And maybe I'm reading your post wrong but I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone should know about what the update on the missing threads is. It's definitely not something that's so reasonable and logical that it doesn't even need to be said when a database error is concerned.

I also don't know why you guys wouldn't usually respond to feedback about the website, that seems rather strange to me. Just a "Yes, we know about the issues with the appearance of the subforum and are working on fixing it." would be a much nicer reply than no reply at all. By not even bothering to reply to feedback it conveys a sense that you guys don't actually care about the issue, regardless if you actually do or not. You're very vocal in publicly shaming (for lack of a better word) every little misdemeanor someone makes, but you can't be that public about responding to important feedback about the site?

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:04 pm

We absolutely strive to answer innocuous and reasonable questions when we receive them. We did so the last time someone happened to ask about this.

We also all seem to agree, however, that this thread absolutely did not start out as such.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:26 pm

I think a little more patience will pay off, it’s confraternization period in a big part of the world. It’s not like the issue isn’t being treated with any priority too, it will have a proper time to be solved. Sometimes, it isn’t as quick as we desire.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:24 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:It’s not like the issue isn’t being treated with any priority too, it will have a proper time to be solved.
That’s pretty much directly contradicted by this statement:
VegettoEX wrote:So let me be clear: no, the categorization and reinstatement of certain episode discussion threads in a sub-forum is not actually that important and is being prioritized appropriately as such.
Which basically means no, we don’t know when it’s going to be fixed and since it’s not a priority, no one is even currently working on fixing it. I know that you guys said you aren’t programmers, but someone was said to be working on it, and there’s still no update on what that guy’s progress is.

Like I said it’s not the biggest deal in the world and definitely wasn’t something that required immediate solving when it happened, but it’s been months without any update or transparency and even the replies in this thread still don’t shed any light on what is going on with it, who is still working on it, etc.

I’m not demanding it be solved instantly or complaining that it’s not being handled enough or prioritized to be the most important thing going on right now, hell if you told me the guy said he’ll have it done in another 3 months that would be fine. I just want transparency on it and to have some inkling of an idea of what the progress is on an issue that seems to be given up on.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:50 pm

I don't see why this is a super big deal. Is it annoying ? Yea I can see why, but it seems more suited for this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25229
Rather than some thread about why it's "unacceptable" that it's design is slightly off.
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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Asura » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:55 pm

I'm going to retract what I previously wrote as after re-reading it I realize it comes across as me making it into a bigger issue than it really is, which wasn't my intention.

You guys do great work on the website and the forums, and I look forward to seeing whenever the issue is resolved.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:30 pm

Asura wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:It’s not like the issue isn’t being treated with any priority too, it will have a proper time to be solved.
That’s pretty much directly contradicted by this statement:
VegettoEX wrote:So let me be clear: no, the categorization and reinstatement of certain episode discussion threads in a sub-forum is not actually that important and is being prioritized appropriately as such.
Which basically means no, we don’t know when it’s going to be fixed and since it’s not a priority, no one is even currently working on fixing it. I know that you guys said you aren’t programmers, but someone was said to be working on it, and there’s still no update on what that guy’s progress is.
Well.. being less important doesn’t mean it has zero priority. Certainly, it’s not the first or second, but give it time. It’s not something we can’t afford.

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Re: The Forum is EXTREMELY inconsistant in design.

Post by Professor Freeza » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:02 am

I think the clarification CLEARLY shows the future of the forum's layouts.

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