"(Super) Dragon Ball Heroes" Official Discussion Thread

[Cipher]

So, I recently read Volume 2 of the manga. My Japanese level is upper-intermediate. Have word there might be a splinter thread for the manga specifically soon, but in the meantime, here are my reactions as they went up on Twitter over the weekend. I hadn't read Volume 1 and was going in totally blind. You can see some corrections to the name puns starting with the third thread (correcting Mechickaboola, Shroom and Chamel specifically, as I wasn't sure what their puns were at first; I thought Shroom was too obvious, but it wasn't). After the first two chapters, I was filled in on bits I'd missed. Despite misgivings, I wound up having a fun time:

Chapter 6: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 2786000897

Chapter 7: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 5331142656

Chapter 8: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 1536937986

Chapter 9: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 3815268352

Chapter 10: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 4401694721 (This is the one that was apparently exclusive to the collected volume — I want to say that I think I initially misinterpreted Paragus' final line here, since it's an ambiguous sentence fragment in Japanese. I'm now pretty sure he was apologizing for not being able to save Broli because he had to try to take revenge on King Vegeta instead.)

Chapter 11: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 7502208001

Final thoughts: I had fun! Even without the connection to the arcade/card game, Super Dragon Ball Heroes would be an appropriate name for this. It really does feel like Dragon Ball by way of a superhero comic. In some sense, it's good fun. In another, it's extremely stupid, and all of that goes hand in hand. I would never want this to become the only form in which the series is around, but for the time being? It seems to know exactly how disposable it is and wear that element on its sleeve. As far as what is essentially a team superhero take on the series, it could be less fun. I'm shocked that, as it doesn't draw on anything the Xenoverse games haven't primed Western audiences perfectly for, it still doesn't have a stateside release.

Even acknowledging that it's dumb, disposable fun, though, there are still a handful of shortcomings: When it doesn't feel too beholden to what it's selling, it's at its most fun. Unfortunately, there's plenty that feels shoehorned in solely to showcase the card du jour. For example, all of the masked Saiyan stuff here is just baffling. The action occasionally manages some fun choreography that takes advantage of its ability to pull in any character (see Shroom sticking his scythe through Janemba's portal), but these are few and far between. Far more often, the fights are barely seen, existing just nominally enough for the chapter to say it showcased the relevant character/card, maybe getting in a big, named attack. Nagayama's art is pretty mediocre. The style feels like it varies wildly, in terms of things like line thickness and shading, to the point I actually wondered if there were some ghosts artists on this, though only Nagayama is credited. It's all far removed from Toriyama. If it is all him, though, fair enough, as it's a cut above your average doujinshi, and he manages to get it out on a strict schedule. The really baffling thing, craft-wise, is Nagayama's tendency to obfuscate dialogue attribution. He employs a lot of speech bubbles without tails, and it makes it hard to tell who's talking at first. When he does include tails, they're often pointed toward a group at enough distance to still confuse attribution. Obviously it clears up as you read the dialogue, but the speaker should be clear before the reader delves in, so as not to break immersion. That's just basic comics.

Anyway, it's junk-food Dragon Ball, but as far as junk-food Dragon Ball goes, you could do a lot worse. With volumes being cheap in Japan, I'll probably stick around for the next one as well. This felt a lot like reading a Western superhero comic—just with characters I'm familiar with from Dragon Ball in the lead roles—and that has its own pleasures and pitfalls. Would never want to see this be the face of the series, and it's off-putting in some way to see Toriyama's idiosyncratic series having become this at all, but ... as it is ... it's a wild ride I could stick around with a bit longer out of curiosity.

[Grimlock]

And Ultimate Gohan is specifically "Potential Liberated" form of "Son Gohan: Teen" in Heroes(unlike other games like Dokkan where it's a different character name)

So, yeah. In short, now we have Ultimate Goten:Xeno which is very interesting

As I said, we must wait before making any conclusion. These icons have been wrong before (such as portraying Dragon Ball Super Future Trunks with purple hair, Super Saiyan 2 Vegetto with Super Saiyan 3 hair and etc). In Heroes, Dragon Ball Super Ultimate Gohan doesn't have bang, despite it being the case in the anime (and the icon shows it with bang).

And again, going by the icons, there's no difference between Xeno Gohan and the supposed Ultimate Xeno Gohan (and we can see that the same applies to Xeno Goten and the supposed Ultimate Xeno Goten). So we must wait until UM3 is released to get further and more solid evidences so that we can safely say he finally got a transformation.

[Bullza]

Someone make sense of this for me if they can.

Theres a Goku and a Goku: Xeno, Vegeta and a Vegeta: Xeno etc. Is there a Future Trunks: Xeno?

Because there appears to be a Future Trunks shortly after the Android saga who became a member of the Time Patrol. He has long purple hair, he can become a Super Saiyan 3, he's in these different openings fighting the Demon Gods...

And then there's also a Future Trunks with blue hair from Dragon Ball Super who obviously never experienced any of this and didn't know of a Super Saiyan 3 and has his own unique form and this is the one imprisoned on Prison Planet right?

They're two separate characters aren't they? The Time Patrol Trunks from Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse can't be the same as the one from Super can he?

So does that make him Future Trunks: Xeno?

[Grimlock]

Theres a Goku and a Goku: Xeno, Vegeta and a Vegeta: Xeno etc. Is there a Future Trunks: Xeno?

Yes. It's Time Patroller Trunks.

Because there appears to be a Future Trunks shortly after the Android saga who became a member of the Time Patrol. He has long purple hair, he can become a Super Saiyan 3, he's in these different openings fighting the Demon Gods...

Here it depends on the source:

• Dragon Ball Online - It seems it was stated he became Time Patroller after he defeated Cell, but then comes Future Trunks saga years later and we see that he hasn't become one yet. Considering Dragon Ball Online takes place in the manga continuity, it is more like a retcon, Trunks becomes Time Patroller after the events of Future Trunks saga.

• Dragon Ball Heroes - the manga shows us a flashback of Cell saga events (and I think his victory over Cell) and then he becomes a Time Patroller. Seemingly telling us that he becomes one after the defeat of Cell.

It is the same Trunks that has long hair, in the manga, he went to train with Xeno Goku in a place like the Room of Space and Time and spent time enough so that his hair became long again.

And then there's also a Future Trunks with blue hair from Dragon Ball Super who obviously never experienced any of this and didn't know of a Super Saiyan 3 and has his own unique form and this is the one imprisoned on Prison Planet right?

Yes.

They're two separate characters aren't they? The Time Patrol Trunks from Dragon Ball Online/Xenoverse can't be the same as the one from Super can he?

They are the same. And actually Xenoverse itself makes that "connection". This whole "color of the hair" seems to be a matter of consistency rather than "hey, I change the color of my hair so that makes me different from that other one". Time Patroller Trunks always had purple hair, being consistent with the manga. Dimps preferred to maintain the purple hair for that consistency, something that was established years before the change.

If we are going to treat Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Time Patroller Trunks because of a simply color change, we may start treating Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Z) as well.

[Bullza]

If we are going to treat Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Time Patroller Trunks because of a simply color change, we may start treating Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Z) as well.

Well it wouldn't just be that.

You'd have the Time Patrol Trunks who according to the Super Dragon Ball Heroes manga was not long after Cell as you mentioned who can become a Super Saiyan 3 which we saw in one of the openings and one of the chapters but then the Trunks in Dragon Ball Super didn't know of what that even was until he saw Goku do it.

The Time Patrol Trunks learnt that Time Travel was illegal when Chronoa told him and that was why he offered to become a Time Patroller but then Trunks in Dragon Ball Super only found out it was illegal after Beerus and Whis said so.

So how can they be the same character if they learnt the same thing under two entirely different circumstances?

Chronologically it would seem he became a Time Patroller before he encountered Goku Black according to the manga and that wouldn't fit with Xenoverse 2 would it?

[Grimlock]

You'd have the Time Patrol Trunks who according to the Super Dragon Ball Heroes manga was not long after Cell as you mentioned who can become a Super Saiyan 3 which we saw in one of the openings and one of the chapters but then the Trunks in Dragon Ball Super didn't know of what that even was until he saw Goku do it.

Oh, I forgot to specify I was talking about the Dragon Ball Online version in that line. This one falls in line with the manga and what we saw in Dragon Ball Super, despite the change in the color.

In Xenoverse, Time Patroller Trunks acknowledges Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) as being the same character, so we may or may not have a Trunks that also falls in line with the manga/Online Trunks. I think it depends on how you see Xenoverse series/franchise.

But Time Patroller Trunks (Dragon Ball Heroes) is different from the others due to Super Saiyan 3 and what the manga tells us, as you've just given an example.

Chronologically it would seem he became a Time Patroller before he encountered Goku Black according to the manga and that wouldn't fit with Xenoverse 2 would it?

I don't remember if Xenoverse ever specified when Trunks becomes a Time Patroller. If it didn't, then there's no issue here. Well, there is Future Trunks saga in XV2 and he wasn't a Time Patroller during its events, which could mean that in Xenoverse continuity, he also becomes one after Future Trunks saga.

[shadowfox87]

If we are going to treat Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Time Patroller Trunks because of a simply color change, we may start treating Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Super) different from Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Z) as well.

Well it wouldn't just be that.

You'd have the Time Patrol Trunks who according to the Super Dragon Ball Heroes manga was not long after Cell as you mentioned who can become a Super Saiyan 3 which we saw in one of the openings and one of the chapters but then the Trunks in Dragon Ball Super didn't know of what that even was until he saw Goku do it.

The Time Patrol Trunks learnt that Time Travel was illegal when Chronoa told him and that was why he offered to become a Time Patroller but then Trunks in Dragon Ball Super only found out it was illegal after Beerus and Whis said so.

So how can they be the same character if they learnt the same thing under two entirely different circumstances?

Chronologically it would seem he became a Time Patroller before he encountered Goku Black according to the manga and that wouldn't fit with Xenoverse 2 would it?

For me, they are two different Trunks from two different continuities, it's not just treating them different because of a simple color change. SDBH and DBO have shown that the Trunks: Xeno aka Time Patrol Trunks gets recruited by Chronoa shortly after defeating Imperfect Cell in the future. This Trunks is the one who trains with Goku: Xeno, fights Mira and Towa, and becomes SSJ3. In the animated cutscenes of DBH, he has been shown to have purple hair. XV just hasn't caught up to the events in SDBH yet because they are still in the Dark Demon Realm saga. Trunks does turn SSJ3 even in the manga during the Dark Empire Saga which XV3 will most likely be about.

In contrast, the DBS Trunks has fought Dabura and Zamasu. We know from the Prison Arc, that this Trunks has SS Rage not SSJ3 and has blue hair. The SDBH manga won't show anime exclusive transformations like Rage, SSBE, and SSB Kaioken though.

We know that there is a timeline with 2 pairs of Trunks and Mai, which Whis has stated both in the DBS anime and manga. It's not farfetch'd to believe that in that timeline, Whis woke up Beerus early, so Beerus himself handled Dabura and Zamasu so that Shin would not die. Therefore, the Trunks that already lived there, did not experience those events. There are two Future Trunks and it's a fact.

[ankokudaishogun]

. These icons have been wrong before (such as portraying Dragon Ball Super Future Trunks with purple hair, Super Saiyan 2 Vegetto with Super Saiyan 3 hair and etc)

Icon ART has been wrong before, not icon TEXT. At least, to my knowledge.

Is there a Future Trunks: Xeno?

Trunks:Xeno IS Future Trunks.

The Xeno characters come from various timelines.
Goten:Xeno was suggested being Goten:GT, for example.
Goku:Xeno was suggested to be Goku:Online.
Manga states Gohan:Xeno lived through the events of the Lord Slug movie.

Trunks:Xeno is Future Trunks who, at some point in time, gets conscripted in the Time Patrol as atonement for his crimes against time.

Xenoverse 2 suggests Future Trunks from Super is, in fact, the past version of Trunks:Xeno, which in turn means "ignore the hair color inconsistency"(the hair length is a matter of... well, hair growing. It happens, to half saiyans).
Details about their connection are still hazy, so something else might have happened.

Also: do you remember at the end of the Super Future Trunks saga he was going to a future where there were two of them?
My headcanon is that Trunks:Super remained in the future living happily(until Fu, at least), while Chronoa did conscript the local Trunks in becoming Trunks:Xeno(because Trunks:Super might well be Trunks:Suffering)

[Grimlock]

Goku:Xeno was suggested to be Goku:Online.

What? Where?



Alright, chapter 2 of Universe Mission 2 is finally upon us! Some interesting stuff:

• Those handcuffs Trunks wears are Ki-sealing.
• Can we finally call Fu the greatest character? He mocks Cooler and thought it was probably better to bring Freeza since he's the one who has the Golden Form.
• Trunks learns for the first time that Cooler is Freeza's brother (which proves that this story is in the right hands, since Trunks wasn't supposed to know who Cooler was indeed).

[Dragotaker]

If that is indeed Xeno Goten with Ultimate like Gohan in Z and Super does that mean he would be stronger than SS3?? I don't see it but even then I still want to see SS3 Goten but if he is stronger then he would not need to achieve that form, gonna be like that running joke of Vegeta skipping SS3.

[ankokudaishogun]

SS3 always been a inefficient form so...

Also, I just realized Heroes stated SS4 Goku is stronger than SS Vegetto/Gogeta, as the latters were permitted by the former was forbidden by Chronoa based on its power.

[Bullza]

I don't remember if Xenoverse ever specified when Trunks becomes a Time Patroller. If it didn't, then there's no issue here. Well, there is Future Trunks saga in XV2 and he wasn't a Time Patroller during its events, which could mean that in Xenoverse continuity, he also becomes one after Future Trunks saga.

I checked and Time Patrol Trunks does refer to the events of the Future Trunks saga in Xenoverse 2 as them cleaning up his mess again so yeah it would seem that the Trunks from the Xenoverse games (and it could fit with Online) comes from a later period than from Super.

So is the Trunks from Dragon Ball Heroes separate from Time Patrol Trunks then?

[sunsetshimmer]

SS3 always been a inefficient form so...

Also, I just realized Heroes stated SS4 Goku is stronger than SS Vegetto/Gogeta, as the latters were permitted by the former was forbidden by Chronoa based on its power.

That was already stated in series honestly.

[ankokudaishogun]

SS3 always been a inefficient form so...

Also, I just realized Heroes stated SS4 Goku is stronger than SS Vegetto/Gogeta, as the latters were permitted by the former was forbidden by Chronoa based on its power.

That was already stated in series honestly.

Where? I do remember the only statement about that was in some databook, and it framed as a possibility of SS4 being as strong as Vegetto(if base or SS not specified)

[BlueBasilisk]

That Vegito card should have had Kaiokenx20 stacked on top of SSBE. What a missed opportunity.

[sunsetshimmer]

SS3 always been a inefficient form so...

Also, I just realized Heroes stated SS4 Goku is stronger than SS Vegetto/Gogeta, as the latters were permitted by the former was forbidden by Chronoa based on its power.

That was already stated in series honestly.

Where? I do remember the only statement about that was in some databook, and it framed as a possibility of SS4 being as strong as Vegetto(if base or SS not specified)

Super Baby said that he obtained the greatest saiya power and Goku said that he never felt ki as strong as his.
Meanwhile, SSJ4 totally destroyed Baby's next form and was about equal to his second next form.

That databook was in fact just a guidebook for movie and it was about transformations overall so it most likely meant that SSJ4 Goku would be about equal to hypothetical GT Vegito.

[jeffbr92]

Also... who's Cumber fighting here?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Oh don't know? It's the Ultra version of these:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Lord Frieza]

Ah dark, edgy redesigns. It's like being back in the 90s, so nastalgic. Also these guys might want to hide befor SS4 Goku finds out they nicked his eyeliner.

[RichardKing2]

Cute. Another comedian who wants to say his piece. As if we didn't get enough of that from those summary "translations" of the SDBH manga a few posts ago

The designs themselves are okay. Wouldn't say they are "edgy". Could have been more creative, but they'll do. Better than how Demigra made the characters look in XV1, in my viewpoint. The person with the most drastic change in looks is Syn, though I kinda like the new design on him.

[Lord Frieza]

Cute. Another comedian who wants to say his piece. As if we didn't get enough of that from those summary "translations" of the SDBH manga a few posts ago

The designs themselves are okay. Wouldn't say they are "edgy". Could have been more creative, but they'll do. Better than how Demigra made the characters look in XV1, in my viewpoint. The person with the most drastic change in looks is Syn, though I kinda like the new design on him.

My my someones quick to bite are they not.

Considering that I grew up in the 90s and to a digree love all that edgy crap they pulled, despite my odd jabbs about SS4 being 90's like (and I do like the form), my statment is both a both mocking and genuine likeing.