DBZ: Ultimate Blast/Tenkaichi (Pre-Release Discussion)

[mysticboy]

Wont happen with Spike, unless they FINALLY decide to do what Dimps did from the beginning. That is, load ALL of the character models at the start of the battle. The reason the transformations in the BT/RB games take so long is because they're basically a loading screen. The game's accessing and loading the new character, which isn't already in memory like they were in the Budokai games.

Makes sense, but is that true for when you turn back to normal too?

[Jaruka]

I wish transformations would stop taking so much time.

Wont happen with Spike, unless they FINALLY decide to do what Dimps did from the beginning. That is, load ALL of the character models at the start of the battle. The reason the transformations in the BT/RB games take so long is because they're basically a loading screen. The game's accessing and loading the new character, which isn't already in memory like they were in the Budokai games.

But you need to remember that more changes between the models in Spike's games. With DIMPs everything stayed the same except the model but in Spike's games you've got new attacks, signatures, etc...

So for all we know if they were all pre-loaded it may take too much time to load.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Wont happen with Spike, unless they FINALLY decide to do what Dimps did from the beginning. That is, load ALL of the character models at the start of the battle. The reason the transformations in the BT/RB games take so long is because they're basically a loading screen. The game's accessing and loading the new character, which isn't already in memory like they were in the Budokai games.

Makes sense, but is that true for when you turn back to normal too?

Generally, in Raging Blast 2 (and possibly 1) if you transformed from base form, you can quickly switch back without any loading screen. After that, you can also access the last form you used without the screen.

[Saimaroimaru]

SS3 Broly was quite useless but a cool idea, sorta in the range of SS4 Vegetto. The point is that SS4 Vegetto is really a bad idea, the character has no merit and to be fair nobody in the Z Universe could even compete with him in his Super Saiyan form. I know you may use GT as an argument but it's still argued against whether SS Vegetto is actually weaker than SS4 Gogeta and considering that portara is more powerful I doubt SS3 Vegetto would be weaker than SS4 Gogeta anyway. Not forgetting that SS3 Vegeta and SS3 Goku are already in these games so SS3 Vegetto would be a lot more logical to add.

Yes, the earrings are more powerful than the dance, but not by that much (6x8=48, 6x6=36). SSJ4 Vegetto is actually a logical what-if if GT is added. Since Gogeta only exists for 10 minutes, what if they fused with Potara?
If he's redundant, wouldn't Majin Cell, or Majin Freeza also be in the same boat?

I like how we add in these non canon numerical fusion formulas. Its so funny.

[Piccolo Daimao]

With DIMPs everything stayed the same except the model

Just nitpicking here, but with DIMPS, while you could say that they mostly stayed the same, they did sometimes gain new moves. For example, SSj2 Gohan gained the Soaring Dragon Strike and Father-Son Kamehameha.

[Taku128]

I wish transformations would stop taking so much time.

Wont happen with Spike, unless they FINALLY decide to do what Dimps did from the beginning. That is, load ALL of the character models at the start of the battle. The reason the transformations in the BT/RB games take so long is because they're basically a loading screen. The game's accessing and loading the new character, which isn't already in memory like they were in the Budokai games.

But you need to remember that more changes between the models in Spike's games. With DIMPs everything stayed the same except the model but in Spike's games you've got new attacks, signatures, etc...

So for all we know if they were all pre-loaded it may take too much time to load.

I seriously doubt that. In Ladder Mode in the new Mortal Kombat the game loads two additional characters when you're fighting against Shang Tsung without any noticeable increase in load time before the match, and a Mortal Kombat character has a lot more in terms of animations than Raging Blast characters do. It's more likely that they're just lazy and don't want to properly optimize their code to load all the extra transformations before the game without significantly impacting the load times.

[mysticboy]

Generally, in Raging Blast 2 (and possibly 1) if you transformed from base form, you can quickly switch back without any loading screen. After that, you can also access the last form you used without the screen.

If you start at base and turn SSJ1 and then turn SSJ2, you get the screens both times (of course), but after you turn SSJ2 and go back to normal, you still get a screen of you reverting back. It's like this:
Base>SSJ scene>SSJ2 scene>Reverting back to base scene.
So basically, it still loads.

[Jaruka]

Generally, in Raging Blast 2 (and possibly 1) if you transformed from base form, you can quickly switch back without any loading screen. After that, you can also access the last form you used without the screen.

If you start at base and turn SSJ1 and then turn SSJ2, you get the screens both times (of course), but after you turn SSJ2 and go back to normal, you still get a screen of you reverting back. It's like this:
Base>SSJ scene>SSJ2 scene>Reverting back to base scene.
So basically, it still loads.

But it's important to note that when you revert you can flick between SS2 and base

[Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece]

Easiest way of doing that:

Campaign: Extended cinematic for specific fights. Then shortened yet still cinematic transformations in others.

Vs: Choice between shortened or no cutscene* in character selection screen.

Online: For flow it'd probably be best to have no cutscene so *you only see the transformation from behind to avoid stuttering flow of the fight.

Extended: Anime scene when Goku first turns Super Saiyan (3 Minutes)

Shortened: That YouTube video posted by InfernalVegito (8 Seconds)

None: Goku describing Super Saiyan 1 and 2 to Buu (1 second)

In RB 1 (and presumably 2, though I don't know this) after transforming in to a form and then back to your normal form, transforming to the form you were just in would happen instantly.

[Cold Skin]

The transformation moments are undoubtedly loading times. You can actually hear the PS3 working the loading time, as if it was a generic loading screen. Because the models are loaded, there's no loading time if you transform again after returning to your regular form.

So, maybe one way they could reduce the loading times is simply to install datas on the hard drive, taking 5GB for example (or at least, giving the choice of installing, otherwise most players will be unhappy, and that's understandable depending on the size of the hard drive and the ammount of datas they already have on it) to have all the "transformed models" ready to go. This would likely not suppress loading times (since even games downloaded on the network still have loading times), but it would reduce them a lot.

They could also load all models at the beginning of the battle, but that would make for longer loading screens, and those were already criticized in some reviews for being too long in Raging Blast.

Or, they can keep those loading times, but make them more appealing, with complex animations which would actually be part of the regular-form model (they already showed that they were capable of almost cutscene-like, complex animations during Freezer and Cell's transformations).

Guess everyone would have their own opinion on this matter...

[Jaruka]

[

Wont happen with Spike, unless they FINALLY decide to do what Dimps did from the beginning. That is, load ALL of the character models at the start of the battle. The reason the transformations in the BT/RB games take so long is because they're basically a loading screen. The game's accessing and loading the new character, which isn't already in memory like they were in the Budokai games.

But you need to remember that more changes between the models in Spike's games. With DIMPs everything stayed the same except the model but in Spike's games you've got new attacks, signatures, etc...

So for all we know if they were all pre-loaded it may take too much time to load.

I seriously doubt that. In Ladder Mode in the new Mortal Kombat the game loads two additional characters when you're fighting against Shang Tsung without any noticeable increase in load time before the match, and a Mortal Kombat character has a lot more in terms of animations than Raging Blast characters do. It's more likely that they're just lazy and don't want to properly optimize their code to load all the extra transformations before the game without significantly impacting the load times.

I don't mean to seem rude but I hear a lot of people speaking ill of Spike without considering time and monetary constraints, not to mention most fans would probably complain if there were no transformation cutscenes.

With DIMPs everything stayed the same except the model

Just nitpicking here, but with DIMPS, while you could say that they mostly stayed the same, they did sometimes gain new moves. For example, SSj2 Gohan gained the Soaring Dragon Strike and Father-Son Kamehameha.

Just a wee bit of a nitpick but it's something I already took into consideration. Mainly because the moves can still be pre-loaded but with Spike I fear it would make the loading screens quite a bit longer.

[Patient-mental]

Loading mid fight (while transforming) is no excuse when theres also a Loading screen and Pre-Fight banter between characters and it's not like its loading large high detailed areas or characters. Their real time rendering of the background/foreground is really subpar for current generation games if it has to load the entire arena in the loading screen.

[Saimaroimaru]

Thus why I am against af or any fanfiction transformations from getting into any dbz games besides homebrew. http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/C ... formations Do you really want Spike to focus on stuff like this? I sure don't.

[Jaruka]

Thus why I am against af or any fanfiction transformations from getting into any dbz games besides homebrew. http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/C ... formations Do you really want Spike to focus on stuff like this? I sure don't.

That's an unfair deduction to make, considering that Spike wouldn't have SS33 Goku.

[Saimaroimaru]

Thus why I am against af or any fanfiction transformations from getting into any dbz games besides homebrew. http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/C ... formations Do you really want Spike to focus on stuff like this? I sure don't.

That's an unfair deduction to make, considering that Spike wouldn't have SS33 Goku.

How is that unfair? Between this and Db fanfiction wiki and all of the crappy "we want this" facebook groups, there isn't many good fanfiction good ideas. I mean really do you want this: http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/L ... per_Saiyan in the game? Sorry I try to give them a shot but its disappointment after disappointment.

[mysticboy]

I seriously doubt that. In Ladder Mode in the new Mortal Kombat the game loads two additional characters when you're fighting against Shang Tsung without any noticeable increase in load time before the match, and a Mortal Kombat character has a lot more in terms of animations than Raging Blast characters do.

But look at how long MK9 has been in development.

How is that unfair? Between this and Db fanfiction wiki and all of the crappy "we want this" facebook groups, there isn't many good fanfiction good ideas. I mean really do you want this: http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/L ... per_Saiyan in the game? Sorry I try to give them a shot but its disappointment after disappointment.

All that stuff is pretty stupid. I don't think these transformations will go anywhere since they're overly absurd.

[InfernalVegito]

How is that unfair? Between this and Db fanfiction wiki and all of the crappy "we want this" facebook groups, there isn't many good fanfiction good ideas. I mean really do you want this: http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/L ... per_Saiyan in the game? Sorry I try to give them a shot but its disappointment after disappointment.

There are limits. And clearly all of the transformation displayed on the site you posted are far beyond realistic what-ifs. They are true fanfiction which goes beyond logical assumption what the characters could have achieved or what they could have done differently. No one would ever take these into consideration anyway. So please stop trying to justify that what-ifs are bad with such examples. Anyone can tell the difference between exaggerated/absurd (the ones portrayed on the site of your link) and realistic/logical what-ifs such as a SS4 Vegetto or GT Gotenks.

[Jaruka]

Thus why I am against af or any fanfiction transformations from getting into any dbz games besides homebrew. http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/C ... formations Do you really want Spike to focus on stuff like this? I sure don't.

That's an unfair deduction to make, considering that Spike wouldn't have SS33 Goku.

How is that unfair? Between this and Db fanfiction wiki and all of the crappy "we want this" facebook groups, there isn't many good fanfiction good ideas. I mean really do you want this: http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/L ... per_Saiyan in the game? Sorry I try to give them a shot but its disappointment after disappointment.

It was unfair to both fans and Spike, you make it seem as though because fans may want SS4 Vegetto that means they want SS63 Gogetto or Legendary Super Super Saiyan Broly. Also, Spike has never 'made up' a form for one of their games, they've only used existing material and even if they did use original content they wouldn't go overboard and I think you know that.

Then again mate, your opinion is as valid to NamcoBandai as someone who wants SS4 Vegetto.

[Saimaroimaru]

Clearly you two are reading too much into my posts. Lets break it down before we go further.

Thus why I am against af or any fanfiction transformations from getting into any dbz games besides homebrew. http://ultradragonball.wikia.com/wiki/C ... formations Do you really want Spike to focus on stuff like this? I sure don't.

AF/Fanfictions transformations as in anything above Super Saiyan 4. The link displayed what I was talking about. Next I ask do you want Spike to focus on stuff like this. I wasn't saying that Spike was or was going to. In fact the question was rhetorical, and no dip Spike doesn't make original content. I think the misunderstanding was the use of the word any, I should have been more specific(trying to fight that habit), my comment was directed at Super Saiyan transformations other wise I would had used the what-if category link along with that link.

[Taku128]

I seriously doubt that. In Ladder Mode in the new Mortal Kombat the game loads two additional characters when you're fighting against Shang Tsung without any noticeable increase in load time before the match, and a Mortal Kombat character has a lot more in terms of animations than Raging Blast characters do.

But look at how long MK9 has been in development.

Loading times are typically optimized at the end of a game's development cycle, shortly before a game comes out. Sometimes game reviewers are sent near final versions of the game a couple weeks before release where the load times are significantly longer than the retail version because the development team hasn't finished optimizing it. It doesn't take two and a half years to optimize loading.