In defense of Goku in Smash bros

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In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby miguelnuva1 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:23 pm

I know him being a anime character keeps him out of smash but
Maybe Xeno Goku could be dlc down the line as he is a video game exclusive version of Goku and has been in 2 3ds exclusive games.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Jackalope89 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:04 pm

Maybe Kid Goku would work? Would certainly fit the theme more.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Bebi Hatchiyack » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:48 am

No the only exception that is possible is Mickey.

Why you would ask because it is the only mascot of the compagny who are both a video game mascot for Disney and their digital branch as well as the animated mascot branch.

Goku won't be in smash bros ever.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Gyt Kaliba » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:34 am

The only potential argument I'd consider legit for Goku being added to Smash Bros. is the fact that he's the anime character to appear in more video games than any other character. Even that I'd call a weaker argument though, since beyond that, he's still a manga/anime character long before he's a video game character.

Smash Bros. started out being a celebration of Nintendo, and while it's grown into being a celebration of gaming in general to a degree, I'd personally prefer if it kept it at just that, games. Having Sonic, Pac-Man, Snake, Ryu, and Cloud (though really, they couldn't have given a FF character that actually appeared on a Nintendo console before?) are all extensions of that, and likewise, I'd be more interested in seeing the likes of say, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Lara Croft, or even Master Chief, in Smash than I would Goku. That's not to say I wouldn't play as him if he was there, but I'd be sort of grumbling the entire time.

It's more or less the way I feel about Injustice 2 at this point too when I see suggestions for any random character to be added there. It's primarily a DC celebration fighting game (with tiny sprinkles of Mortal Kombat since they're made by the same studio), but with DLC adding in characters like Hellboy and the TMNT, the series could potentially grow into being a celebration of comics in general. And while an argument could again be raised for Goku there, being a manga character, it'd still feel like a bit of a stretch honestly.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby AnimeNation101 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:55 pm

Smash’s rule of only having characters who have originated from video games is a real limiter for the series. Goku has broken the smash ballot beating out many other voted characters several times but due to the rule, he never got put in. Without that stupid rule, Smash would be WAY more popular just with Goku alone.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Pantalones » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:34 pm

I've never been a fan of the idea of anime characters (not just Goku, but also others like Naruto or even somebody from an anime that was loosely based on a game -- like some of the characters from the Kirby anime who weren't ever in the games, or Ash from Pokémon) showing up in Super Smash Bros. The whole idea is that it's supposed to be all video game characters, starting with Nintendo exclusives and expanding slightly whenever other major game companies want to contribute a character.

(and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice. It's Red, the main character of the first-generation games and their remakes, who also appeared as the final optional boss in Gold/Silver/Crystal. I'm still annoyed that they didn't give him his actual name instead of "Pokémon Trainer.")

They've drifted away from the "classic Nintendo characters" theme a bit in the most recent installment (...I mean, Wii Fit Trainer? really?), and the Pokémon additions have always been skewed a little bit too much toward the anime rather than which ones are actually notable in the game world, but I don't see them ever shifting away from it being a "video game characters only" thing. Goku is not a video game character, he's a manga/anime character who later had video games based on his series.

and Cloud (though really, they couldn't have given a FF character that actually appeared on a Nintendo console before?)


Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA. Of course, KH-Cloud isn't quite the same character as FF7-Cloud and the FF7 version is the one who's in Smash Bros. now... but some version of Cloud has indeed been in a game for a Nintendo system.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Gyt Kaliba » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Honestly, while I love seeing retro games added more than anything (you have no idea how much I spazzed out at the introduction of Duck Hunt), I'm okay with stuff like the Wii Fit Trainer and now the Squidlings from Splatoon making it in. Nintendo's gotta push the newest IP's after all.

Pantalones wrote:Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA. Of course, KH-Cloud isn't quite the same character as FF7-Cloud and the FF7 version is the one who's in Smash Bros. now... but some version of Cloud has indeed been in a game for a Nintendo system.


You got me there though, I completely forgot about that being a GBA game originally. :lol: Probably because I try to forget Chain of Memories for the most part really. It still bugs me though - if they wanted to add a Final Fantasy character, they had six perfectly good games to select a character from rather than just grabbing Cloud for VII's sake. Again though, still far more okay with his inclusion than I would be the likes of Goku, since at least Cloud is still a video game character originally.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Doctor. » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:35 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:Honestly, while I love seeing retro games added more than anything (you have no idea how much I spazzed out at the introduction of Duck Hunt), I'm okay with stuff like the Wii Fit Trainer and now the Squidlings from Splatoon making it in. Nintendo's gotta push the newest IP's after all.

Pantalones wrote:Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA. Of course, KH-Cloud isn't quite the same character as FF7-Cloud and the FF7 version is the one who's in Smash Bros. now... but some version of Cloud has indeed been in a game for a Nintendo system.


You got me there though, I completely forgot about that being a GBA game originally. :lol: Probably because I try to forget Chain of Memories for the most part really. It still bugs me though - if they wanted to add a Final Fantasy character, they had six perfectly good games to select a character from rather than just grabbing Cloud for VII's sake. Again though, still far more okay with his inclusion than I would be the likes of Goku, since at least Cloud is still a video game character originally.

Snake wasn't in any Nintendo game either when he was first included, right? I mean, the original Metal Gear(s) was on the NES, but they clearly based his model and gameplay on the Solid design (specifically MGS2). He's mostly a non-Nintendo property, and one people would most associate with Sony instead.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Nia » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:59 am

Doctor. wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:Honestly, while I love seeing retro games added more than anything (you have no idea how much I spazzed out at the introduction of Duck Hunt), I'm okay with stuff like the Wii Fit Trainer and now the Squidlings from Splatoon making it in. Nintendo's gotta push the newest IP's after all.

Pantalones wrote:Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA. Of course, KH-Cloud isn't quite the same character as FF7-Cloud and the FF7 version is the one who's in Smash Bros. now... but some version of Cloud has indeed been in a game for a Nintendo system.


You got me there though, I completely forgot about that being a GBA game originally. :lol: Probably because I try to forget Chain of Memories for the most part really. It still bugs me though - if they wanted to add a Final Fantasy character, they had six perfectly good games to select a character from rather than just grabbing Cloud for VII's sake. Again though, still far more okay with his inclusion than I would be the likes of Goku, since at least Cloud is still a video game character originally.

Snake wasn't in any Nintendo game either when he was first included, right? I mean, the original Metal Gear(s) was on the NES, but they clearly based his model and gameplay on the Solid design (specifically MGS2). He's mostly a non-Nintendo property, and one people would most associate with Sony instead.


Metal Gear: Ghost Babel on the GBC, and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes on the GameCube.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Doctor. » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:14 am

Nia wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:Honestly, while I love seeing retro games added more than anything (you have no idea how much I spazzed out at the introduction of Duck Hunt), I'm okay with stuff like the Wii Fit Trainer and now the Squidlings from Splatoon making it in. Nintendo's gotta push the newest IP's after all.



You got me there though, I completely forgot about that being a GBA game originally. :lol: Probably because I try to forget Chain of Memories for the most part really. It still bugs me though - if they wanted to add a Final Fantasy character, they had six perfectly good games to select a character from rather than just grabbing Cloud for VII's sake. Again though, still far more okay with his inclusion than I would be the likes of Goku, since at least Cloud is still a video game character originally.

Snake wasn't in any Nintendo game either when he was first included, right? I mean, the original Metal Gear(s) was on the NES, but they clearly based his model and gameplay on the Solid design (specifically MGS2). He's mostly a non-Nintendo property, and one people would most associate with Sony instead.


Metal Gear: Ghost Babel on the GBC, and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes on the GameCube.

Was Snake in Ghost Babel? Never played that one. And I thankfully forgot Twin Snakes was a thing :lol:

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Gyt Kaliba » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:06 am

Doctor. wrote:Snake wasn't in any Nintendo game either when he was first included, right? I mean, the original Metal Gear(s) was on the NES, but they clearly based his model and gameplay on the Solid design (specifically MGS2). He's mostly a non-Nintendo property, and one people would most associate with Sony instead.


While the model and such was definitely based more on the 'Solid' series, the actual character of Solid Snake at least was on Nintendo via the original two Metal Gear games, so I didn't really have a problem with that. Plus, Brawl was the first one that started to open the doors to Smash being a celebration of gaming in general rather than just Nintendo (though still geared primarily towards it), with the inclusion of both Snake and Sonic.

Again, that's my main issue with the idea of adding in Goku. It's not that he's a character with games on other consoles, it's that he's not really a game character at all. He's a manga/anime character that happens to appear in games. To include him would basically just open way too many doors that really don't need opened. I mean, if they can toss in Goku just because he does exist in games, what's to stop them from adding, I dunno, Peter Griffin? There've been Family Guy video games for example. :P

That and, I'll be honest, I just don't really feel a huge amount of need to play as Goku in Smash, because I can play as him in so many other video games. It's the same reason I wasn't as excited for him in J-Stars. Sure, I'd have been severely disappointed if he wasn't included in that one (because again, going by what a game is supposed to be about, J-Stars is a celebration of Shonen Jump, so it lacking Goku WOULD have been an issue), but I can play as him on just about every video game system I've got. Yusuke Urameshi though? Himura Kenshin? These are guys I can't play with in many other games, so they got my attention way faster than Goku did.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Nia » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:56 am

Doctor. wrote:
Nia wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Snake wasn't in any Nintendo game either when he was first included, right? I mean, the original Metal Gear(s) was on the NES, but they clearly based his model and gameplay on the Solid design (specifically MGS2). He's mostly a non-Nintendo property, and one people would most associate with Sony instead.


Metal Gear: Ghost Babel on the GBC, and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes on the GameCube.

Was Snake in Ghost Babel? Never played that one. And I thankfully forgot Twin Snakes was a thing :lol:


Image
Solid Snake was indeed in Ghost Babel.

Personally I prefer Twin Snakes over the PS1 version. :silent:

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Ok, this is getting suspicious...

Postby AnimeNation101 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:21 pm

First this tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/FUNimation/s ... 5580821510

And now this?: https://mobile.twitter.com/IGN/status/9 ... 4198261760

And Toei even replied to it.

I don’t know man. SMASH already knows how many want Goku in the game since he’s won the Smash ballot multiple times and with these tweets, I'm getting suspicious.
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Re: Ok, this is getting suspicious...

Postby Chuquita » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:42 pm

It's one of those Omni King type deals with me where I'd be like technically that's against the rules of Smash's "video game origin characters only", but I really like Gokû so I'd be ok with it.

But of course I'd also want Nozawa Gokû both because personal preference and because then I could pit Nozawa's Gokû against Horikawa's Captain Falcon.
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Re: Ok, this is getting suspicious...

Postby Makaioshin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:37 pm

I think you're overestimating what information the person who runs the social media accounts for the companies that localize shows and rate games is privy to. They are just posting to post.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Logania » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:05 pm

Goku? In Smash Bros??



So glad the rule of "characters introduced from video games" is a thing for Smash. I love Goku, but man he'd be such an odd choice.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:50 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:Honestly, while I love seeing retro games added more than anything (you have no idea how much I spazzed out at the introduction of Duck Hunt), I'm okay with stuff like the Wii Fit Trainer and now the Squidlings from Splatoon making it in. Nintendo's gotta push the newest IP's after all.

Pantalones wrote:Cloud was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories for the GBA. Of course, KH-Cloud isn't quite the same character as FF7-Cloud and the FF7 version is the one who's in Smash Bros. now... but some version of Cloud has indeed been in a game for a Nintendo system.


You got me there though, I completely forgot about that being a GBA game originally. :lol: Probably because I try to forget Chain of Memories for the most part really. It still bugs me though - if they wanted to add a Final Fantasy character, they had six perfectly good games to select a character from rather than just grabbing Cloud for VII's sake. Again though, still far more okay with his inclusion than I would be the likes of Goku, since at least Cloud is still a video game character originally.

Cloud was also in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call, and Final Fantasy Explorers for the 3DS.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby GTx10 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:30 am

Budokai 1 was on GameCube and several Kai games were on the DS so Goku has been in Nintendo games.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Gyt Kaliba » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:Cloud was also in Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call, and Final Fantasy Explorers for the 3DS.


Again though, that's just a minor complaint from me, given that Smash has started to be more about gaming in general than just 100% Nintendo based. I just mostly feel it would have been more fitting to have a character from an earlier Final Fantasy that had been primarily on Nintendo.

GTx10 wrote:Budokai 1 was on GameCube and several Kai games were on the DS so Goku has been in Nintendo games.


That's...hardly the same thing at all though. :wtf: That's like saying that since Goku has been in a ton of PlayStation games, he should have made the roster of PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale too.

Again, at the end of the day, Goku is not a gaming character. He's a manga and anime character that just happens to have a ton of video games featuring him. At the point that we add him into Smash, we may as well add in Naruto because of all the Naruto games, or Ben 10, or Homer Simpson, or Spider-Man, or any other character that just so happens to have appeared in a bunch of video games. There's no telling where it would end, and as a result, Smash would lose the very charm that makes it Smash in the first place.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby GTx10 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:55 pm

Smash hasn't been "Smash" since Melee in my opinion because Brawl and 4 play and feel so different from Melee and the original and not in a good way. But at least Son Goku has been in Nintendo systems. Plus he's always requested so why not honor that for one installment? Make him DLC and call it a day.
Naruto and other anime characters are kind of irrelevant because "Dragon Ball's Son Goku in Super Smash" would sell like hotcakes. If Bayonetta, Ryu, and Cloud can Smash then Goku should Smash too. Besides if Sonic appears in Smash 5 then the whole" Nintendo only" flies out the Window.
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The Uncut Funi Dub found within the "Blue, Orange, and Green Bricks" is valid and good. Disagree? PM me! Let's do this!

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