In defense of Goku in Smash bros

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby DBZAOTA482 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:26 pm

The Super Butoden games were killing it on the Super Famicon plus tons of video games (mostly fighting games) have been biting Dragon Ball's material including Street Fighter and Sonic, especially through Goku so it's not like he hasn't earned the right to be considered a video game character.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.


Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.


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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby The S » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:06 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:Without that stupid rule, Smash would be WAY more popular just with Goku alone.


Because Smash isn't popular enough? I don't think Nintendo worries about the series' popularity. Look at how hyped people were from just the teaser in the last Direct.

Pantalones wrote:and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice.


Michele Knotz has never voiced Ash.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby AnimeNation101 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:27 pm

The S wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:Without that stupid rule, Smash would be WAY more popular just with Goku alone.


Because Smash isn't popular enough? I don't think Nintendo worries about the series' popularity. Look at how hyped people were from just the teaser in the last Direct.

Pantalones wrote:and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice.


Michele Knotz has never voiced Ash.

Yeah, Burt without the rule, Smash could be rivaling games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Pantalones » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:43 pm

Michele Knotz has never voiced Ash.


Huh! I never looked up who did the voice used for him in Brawl, but I could've sworn it was one of the Ash voices (he's had at least two different voice actors over the years, right?) just by the sound of it.

Still, even if it's not the same person that voiced Ash, it's definitely an "Ash voice." Like when the direct-to-video movie sequel can't get the original voice actor for whatever reason, so they get someone who (...if they're good at it) does such a close imitation that the kids don't suspect anything.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby The S » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:03 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
The S wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:Without that stupid rule, Smash would be WAY more popular just with Goku alone.


Because Smash isn't popular enough? I don't think Nintendo worries about the series' popularity. Look at how hyped people were from just the teaser in the last Direct.

Pantalones wrote:and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice.


Michele Knotz has never voiced Ash.

Yeah, Burt without the rule, Smash could be rivaling games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.


I just don't understand this logic.

Smash does phenomenally for a first party title which only releases one installment per generation. While it's not even in Nintendo's top 5-selling properties, Halo and Grand Turismo are the only first-party titles outside of Nintendo which have sold more. It's also a completely different genre and markets to a completely different user base than any of those games.

Not to mention, I don't think putting one anime character in the game will cause the game to suddenly sell millions more units.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby AnimeNation101 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:19 pm

The S wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
The S wrote:
Because Smash isn't popular enough? I don't think Nintendo worries about the series' popularity. Look at how hyped people were from just the teaser in the last Direct.



Michele Knotz has never voiced Ash.

Yeah, Burt without the rule, Smash could be rivaling games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.


I just don't understand this logic.

Smash does phenomenally for a first party title which only releases one installment per generation. While it's not even in Nintendo's top 5-selling properties, Halo and Grand Turismo are the only first-party titles outside of Nintendo which have sold more. It's also a completely different genre and markets to a completely different user base than any of those games.

Not to mention, I don't think putting one anime character in the game will cause the game to suddenly sell millions more units.

I didin’t say just adding Goku. I mean getting rid of the rule entirely so that any character could get in. Like Superman, Goku, etc
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Saimaroimaru » Tue May 01, 2018 12:44 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:Smash’s rule of only having characters who have originated from video games is a real limiter for the series. Goku has broken the smash ballot beating out many other voted characters several times but due to the rule, he never got put in. Without that stupid rule, Smash would be WAY more popular just with Goku alone.


Could be a rights issue. Not as simple as just putting him in, unless you want Nintendo to get sued.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Xeogran » Thu May 03, 2018 10:43 am

Pantalones wrote:(and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice.


Well, Ash was mentioned in a SSB4 trophy from what I remember. He's the one anime character they could kinda let appear in the series somewhere.

Still, I'd love to see Internet the day Goku actually makes it in :lol:

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Whatever » Thu May 03, 2018 2:15 pm

I would not mind him being included but i can see why they don't.

Pantalones wrote:
(and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice. It's Red, the main character of the first-generation games and their remakes, who also appeared as the final optional boss in Gold/Silver/Crystal. I'm still annoyed that they didn't give him his actual name instead of "Pokémon Trainer.")

Red(just like Satoshi) is just one of the default names you could give the trainer avatar you are using.
The reason he was named 'Pokemon Trainer' is because he is just an avatar for the person playing the game not a character,which is why he has 0 personality and does not speak or emote.
Both Red from the pokemon manga and Ash from the anime(or Satoshi if you want to be accurate)are just different reincarnations of this 'empty shell'.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Jackalope89 » Thu May 03, 2018 9:04 pm

Whatever wrote:I would not mind him being included but i can see why they don't.

Pantalones wrote:
(and before anyone tries to say otherwise... no, the "Pokémon Trainer" from Brawl was not Ash, despite the fact that they randomly gave him Ash's voice. It's Red, the main character of the first-generation games and their remakes, who also appeared as the final optional boss in Gold/Silver/Crystal. I'm still annoyed that they didn't give him his actual name instead of "Pokémon Trainer.")

Red(just like Satoshi) is just one of the default names you could give the trainer avatar you are using.
The reason he was named 'Pokemon Trainer' is because he is just an avatar for the person playing the game not a character,which is why he has 0 personality and does not speak or emote.
Both Red from the pokemon manga and Ash from the anime(or Satoshi if you want to be accurate)are just different reincarnations of this 'empty shell'.

Speaking of Ash, have you seen his recent makeover?


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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Hellspawn28 » Fri May 04, 2018 6:30 pm

Goku would never work in Smash. License characters can never work due to multiple issues bumping in. I remember they wanted Golden Eye James Bond in Melee, but they find out that they would have too much issues to deal with putting him in the game.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Jackalope89 » Fri May 04, 2018 7:32 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Goku would never work in Smash. License characters can never work due to multiple issues bumping in. I remember they wanted Golden Eye James Bond in Melee, but they find out that they would have too much issues to deal with putting him in the game.

Then, how about, Sun Wukong?



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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Kamiccolo9 » Sat May 05, 2018 12:45 am

Monkey from Enslaved: Odyssey to the West would be a fun Sun Wukong character for Smash. I could get behind that.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Logania » Sat May 05, 2018 1:37 am

There's also SonSon from "SonSon" made by Capcom, a game loosely based on Journey to the West and was also in Marvel vs Capcom, so there can be a potential moveset pool available.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby miguelnuva1 » Sat May 05, 2018 5:22 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:Goku would never work in Smash. License characters can never work due to multiple issues bumping in. I remember they wanted Golden Eye James Bond in Melee, but they find out that they would have too much issues to deal with putting him in the game.


Bond couldn't get into due to actor likeness rights and multiple studio rights with Bond. Goku would be slightly easier than getting Bond.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Nia » Sat May 05, 2018 1:22 pm

You could always use this Son Goku:
Image

Also, up till now, I've just kinda been snarking and dropping little references, but I'd like to say this:
No, I don't think Goku should be in Smash. Certainly he has a history of games, but I agree that he doesn't belong there.

However, I think he does belong there more than someone like Cloud (seriously, that just screams pandering to me). My recommendation? Drop Cloud, and replace him with Crono. Have an alternate color scheme for Crono that gives him Goku's pallette.
That way, you get a character who's exceptionally well-known who thematically fits in with the "history of Nintendo" stuff, and you get your (sorta) Goku, without feeling like they shoved in a character simply because easy money.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Logania » Sat May 05, 2018 5:49 pm

Chrono would be a cool addition as one of the best acclaimed RPG'S getting some shine in there, but I'm not seeing the point of not wanting Cloud or thinking he doesn't deserve to be a guest.

He's essentially the main icon of Final Fantasy, and is the main character of the most popular and acclaimed title of the franchise, no one else could fill the role of the whole series status wise like he can.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Nia » Sun May 06, 2018 5:06 am

Logania wrote:Chrono would be a cool addition as one of the best acclaimed RPG'S getting some shine in there, but I'm not seeing the point of not wanting Cloud or thinking he doesn't deserve to be a guest.

He's essentially the main icon of Final Fantasy, and is the main character of the most popular and acclaimed title of the franchise, no one else could fill the role of the whole series status wise like he can.


Because as far as I can tell, Smash has always represented characters from Nintendo history beating the tar out of each other, and he's kinda an antithesis of Nintendo history. Yeah, he's iconic to the Final Fantasy series, but the entry in the series that made him iconic was one of the titles that lead to the N64 getting curb-stomped by the PS1. The most he's ever really had on a Nintendo console amount to basically little more than cameos.
It'd be kinda like considering Miku Hatsune as a Persona character just because she had an appearance in Persona 4 Dancing All Night.

No matter how I look at it, it just screams shoving him in there because he's easy money, rather than any sort of meaningful representation. He's a boring, lazy choice as a Final Fantasy/Square-Enix rep, and as a character representing the history of Nintendo, he's pretty much the polar opposite. May as well have Kurt Irving from Valkyria Chronicles 3 in there and Alisa from God Eater in there, since both were in Project X Zone on the 3DS.

Mind you, this is all my personal opinion.

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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Kamiccolo9 » Mon May 07, 2018 12:13 pm

Cloud is also the star of a long-awaited super-hyped remake coming up in the (supposedly) near future. The Smash 4 Cloud DLC announcement came out the same year as the remake announcement. It seems clear to me that has more to do with anything than whatever cameo Cloud has been in, or whether or not he represents the Final Fantasy series. I'm surprised no one has mentioned that yet.
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Re: In defense of Goku in Smash bros

Postby Hellspawn28 » Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 am

Sakurai acknowledged Goku and Spongebob requests. He did said that they have the Mii Fighters for those of type of characters.
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