If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Discussion regarding any musical aspect of the franchise, from game soundtracks to BGM to remixes. Upcoming & classic CDs, reviews, where to find them, and more!

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Regular
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:35 pm

DHM211 wrote:
7. Kikuchi - Ridiculously boring. I’ve heard people say this before but never really put much thought into it, but after sitting through Broly with his soundtrack in the theater, I now see where they were coming from. .


I haven't watched the Broly movie in yeaaaaars and when it did it was with the dubtrack so I can't say if the Broly movie was a good example of Kikuchi's music but I would probably watch a bit more than just that one movie to base an opinion on his score. I hated the Kikuchi music and thought it was boring too when I first heard it (on Dragon Ball Z Kai circa the Android saga on Nicktoons) because it was so poorly used. I didn't realize how good it was/could be until I watched the Pioneer movie dubs of Dead Zone-Tree of Might. And imo early Dragon Ball Z was peak Kikuchi.

Maybe Broly did use Kikuchi's music well and you just didn't like it. Which is totally okay! But I would still check out a bit more than just that one movie to get a good assessment of his music. And definitely avoid using Kai as a basis.

User avatar
DHM211
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:48 pm
Contact:

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby DHM211 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:39 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
DHM211 wrote:
7. Kikuchi - Ridiculously boring. I’ve heard people say this before but never really put much thought into it, but after sitting through Broly with his soundtrack in the theater, I now see where they were coming from. .


I haven't watched the Broly movie in yeaaaaars and when it did it was with the dubtrack so I can't say if the Broly movie was a good example of Kikuchi's music but I would probably watch a bit more than just that one movie to base an opinion on his score. I hated the Kikuchi music and thought it was boring too when I first heard it (on Dragon Ball Z Kai circa the Android saga on Nicktoons) because it was so poorly used. I didn't realize how good it was/could be until I watched the Pioneer movie dubs of Dead Zone-Tree of Might. And imo early Dragon Ball Z was peak Kikuchi.

Maybe Broly did use Kikuchi's music well and you just didn't like it. Which is totally okay! But I would still check out a bit more than just that one movie to get a good assessment of his music. And definitely avoid using Kai as a basis.

I watched most of Z and the Android/Cell saga of Kai with Kikuchi as well, Broly is just my most recent example.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Regular
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby MasenkoHA » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:42 pm

Ah gotcha. Sorry my mistake.

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Regular
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby JohnnyCashKami » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:02 pm

1. Shunsuke Kikuchi
2. Kenji Yamamoto
3. Akihito Tokunaga
4. Ron Wasserman
5. "Westwood Music" (Mega Man Score)
6. Faulconer Products
7. Nathan Johnson
8. Norihito Sumitomo
9. Mark Menza

Dishonorable Mention: TOEI completely ruined Kikuchi's music in Kai by using so very few BGMs and it made the episodes have a very, very, VERY repetitive background music as if there weren't tons and tons of BGMs to use. Apparently, they restricted themselves because they only wanted to use BGMs in stereo but by that logic, there were probably a lot they could have used than just those they picked.

MasenkoHA wrote:Haven’t seen GT in Japanese so can’t rank or rate Tokunaga’s score


FUNimation did their GT dub with the original GT music than just that shitty ass crap they call their own music. All foreign dubs of GT used the original music, but FUNimation was the exception thinking they were making an improvement with their own score.

The FUNimation GT Rap is unbelievably bad, I guess the dude in the video wishes he hadn't done it. :lol:

DHM211 wrote:I’m not going to rank Wasserman because I don’t recall ever hearing him.


He did the Ocean Dub music but he wasn't credited as Ron Wasserman but rather it was Shuky Levi who got all the fame.

User avatar
DHM211
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:48 pm
Contact:

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby DHM211 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:26 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
DHM211 wrote:I’m not going to rank Wasserman because I don’t recall ever hearing him.


He did the Ocean Dub music but he wasn't credited as Ron Wasserman but rather it was Shuky Levi who got all the fame.

Fair enough. I've only ever seen the Ocean Dub for Dead Zone, and I'm pretty sure it used the original soundtrack.

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Regular
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby JohnnyCashKami » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:37 pm

DHM211 wrote:Fair enough. I've only ever seen the Ocean Dub for Dead Zone, and I'm pretty sure it used the original soundtrack.

Right on. Z Movies 1-3 used the original score while Z M3 had a TV Edited version with Ocean Dub music.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Regular
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Majin Buu » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:32 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Maybe Broly did use Kikuchi's music well and you just didn't like it.


No, it did. My go to example for that movie is the scene where Broly murders Paragus. The Kikuchi score uses a very somber piece that underscores the tragic irony of Paragas being murdered by his own son. The dub score completely alters the feel of this scene with a piece that sounds like music from a horror movie, making the scene play more for horror than tragic irony.

The music was used well, he just doesn't like Kikuchi.

User avatar
Rafa Fast
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Rafa Fast » Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:31 pm

I will list just the ones I know:
1. Shunsuke Kikuchi (DB, Original Z, 2008 OVA, and 1-98 replacement)
2. Norihito Sumitomo (BoG, Kai 99-167, RoF, Super and DBSBroly)
3. Hiroshi Takaki (Ultimate Blast, Gaiden Remake and Ep of Bardock)
4. Kenji Yamamoto (Some games and Kai episodes 1-95 before the replacement)
5. Yuya Moori (Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime)
6. Akihito Tokunaga (GT)
7. Bruce Faulconer (Z)

1.The Master of DB musics, Master Kikuchi always will be my favorite, his soundtracks with a lot of drums bass similar to the classics military armys musics, his trumpets are the main element in his music and is unique! and fits totally with the old style of the series! specially with the martial arts style of DB Classic, he was the first one and probably the one who had composed the biggest number of musics, being them more than 500 musics, I just hate that a big part of the soundtracks are so damn short, but was Toei's fault why everyone prefer Yamamoto or had hated Kikuchi's replacement in Kai, because they've chosed just a few variated tracks and most of them were overused and unfitting! after that I think Kikuchi didn't even wanted to see Toei's face anymore! what a underrated composer!

2.Modern Kikuchi, Sumitomo is pretty of other underrated guy too, everyone says he's mediocre or bad, but for me he's the modern Kikuchi, obviously don't even is near to Kikuchi, but his soundtracks specially in Battle of Gods opened the new generation of musics, the way how today now is everything eletronic, digital and new, I think his soundtrack is a very good example, Kikuchi was perfect for the past when everything was hand-draw and old school feeling, in my opinion Battle of Gods was the best he could do, "Life to Be Protected" is my favorite Sumitomo music, along with "Eternal Universe Brand New Friendship" being my favorite of his sad/melancholic themes, RoF wans't very surprising but was awesome too, the track used for when Goku defeats Freeza is my favorite of his various themes with vocals, in Super, his first works really were pretty mediocre, but was increased at Universe 6 Tournament arc, his classic "The Final Death Match" got famous WorldWide! and "Fierce Battle Against a Mighty Foe" & "The Power to Resist" are my favorite battle themes, now I think his work in Kai 2014 was his worst work, like is prety good some tracks, obviously has some awesome tracks like the for some reason unreleased track "No More" or know as "Vegetto vs Zamasu", and the track used for when all the Universes are restored in Super 131 as well, but a big part are just boring repetitive themes, I don't like this track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgSgHXmOwNA) in both Kai 2014 and Super this track was overused as hell, just had noticed most of the released musics are bad and the unreleased ones are good. I would prefer if Toei had reused Kikuchi soundtracks in the new Broly movie, but I'm happy that Sumitomo is still there, 3 tracks were already revealed.

3.The Ignored One Hiroshi Takaki is obviously not famous, but he's one of my favorites, I'm not a big fan of his Ultimate Blast musics, since because they all are just rock, but I loved his work in Episode of Bardock the 2010 Remake of Gaiden, so bad none of his soundtracks for the two OVAS were ever released :\

4.Plagiarism but can't be Forgotten The Good Old Yamamoto, I so bad for what was happened with him, I need to admit that I just had heard a small percentage of his soundtracks, but just with this I think he's good even with the plagiarism, I enjoyed his soundtracks for the Budokai series, fits very well with the style of the games, now his work in Kai, well for me is good but I don't think it fits perfectly with Dragon Ball, but it's fun to watch Kai with his score, like, here in Brazil, just the Kikuchi version of Kai 1-98 was dubbed, and even Kikuchi being my favorite, because of Toei's horrendous Kikuchi's BGM edit in Kai, I would prefer to watch the Yamamoto version.

5.Mini fusion of the Three above Yuya Moori, he's definitely new yet, he made the soundtrack for the promotional anime of SDBH, maybe he will do for SDBH World Mission, well in my opinion his tracks are a fusion of Yamamoto, Takaki and Sumitomo, so why I listed him as 5? well because his tracks for me aren't very variated, all of them are just a lot of intense music with bass, the calm tracks are literally the same thing, it's a good compositor too but he should increase his work a bit.

6.Tried to surpass Kikuchi Tokunaga was hired to take place of Kikuchi after he was retired when Z was ended, working for GT, I believe that me and everyone can enjoy his soundtracks, just as Kikuchi did, creating instrumental variations of Makafushigi Adventure, Chala and Angels, Tokunaga did variations of Dan Dan, the problem is that his variations are the same thing, Kikuchi variations are happy, calm, agitated and intense, Kotunaga Dan Dan variations are just calm and melancholic without much difference, now the rest of his soundtracks aren't memorable and addictable, much of them are the same with that 70's quality, I think the melancholic tracks are the best, now the entire I think fits better with those 70's animes with Giant Robot or about spaces, not with Dragon Ball.

7.Good, but not Dragon Ball The Our Boy Bruce Faulconer,definitely the most famous composer (or composers, idk), Yeah I understand, the musics are awesome, but in opinion don't works with Dragon Ball, just a bunch of rock musics, let's take M1109 and the SSJ3 Theme, the SSJ3 Theme from Faulconer, just gives you the feelings of "wow, so cool and badass!", but I'm really sure that's not the reaction Toei (or Akira, idk) wanted from the people who had watched the scene, SSJ3 theme is just too calm and don't makes it like that is the end of the world, now M1109 from Kikuchi, is perfect, the track begins from a intense bass to a calm part, but the calm part also gives the feelings of "aaaa what is happening, this don't looks good", and later backs to the intense part, and now it gives the feeling of "aaaa is the end of the world!!", gives totally the sentiment of that is the apocalipse, something dangerous, scary, and yeah, legendary! and I really sure that's what they wanted as the reaction of who had watched the scene, I never cared or was a fan of Faulconer, people say it's perfect, but for me it really don't works for dragon ball, try to compare the Gogeta's born scene, the Faulconer music used just makes the fusion look cool or badass, now M2024 from Kikuchi makes the fusion legendary!

I never heard about Johnson, Wasserman or Menza, so I don't even say something about them here, lol I never knew that GT's soundtrack was replaced too in Funi!
I'm just a random person.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Regular
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Majin Buu » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Rafa Fast wrote:2.Modern Kikuchi, Sumitomo is pretty of other underrated guy too, everyone says he's mediocre or bad, but for me he's the modern Kikuchi, obviously don't even is near to Kikuchi, but his soundtracks specially in Battle of Gods opened the new generation of musics, the way how today now is everything eletronic, digital and new, I think his soundtrack is a very good example, Kikuchi was perfect for the past when everything was hand-draw and old school feeling,


I personally think Dragon Ball's sound lost something by moving away from Kikuchi. Modern Dragon Ball scores just sound so bland and generically "epic" to me because Kikuchi had such a unique sound (his style was never really standard orchestral music since it frequently uses instruments that aren't found in traditional orchestral music and sounds kind of "bluesy" at times). To me, calling it "old" always sounds like a retroactive excuse for changing it/moving away from it.

User avatar
Rafa Fast
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:18 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Rafa Fast » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:15 pm

Majin Buu wrote:
Rafa Fast wrote:2.Modern Kikuchi, Sumitomo is pretty of other underrated guy too, everyone says he's mediocre or bad, but for me he's the modern Kikuchi, obviously don't even is near to Kikuchi, but his soundtracks specially in Battle of Gods opened the new generation of musics, the way how today now is everything eletronic, digital and new, I think his soundtrack is a very good example, Kikuchi was perfect for the past when everything was hand-draw and old school feeling,


I personally think Dragon Ball's sound lost something by moving away from Kikuchi. Modern Dragon Ball scores just sound so bland and generically "epic" to me because Kikuchi had such a unique sound (his style was never really standard orchestral music since it frequently uses instruments that aren't found in traditional orchestral music and sounds kind of "bluesy" at times). To me, calling it "old" always sounds like a retroactive excuse for changing it/moving away from it.


In my opinion if Kikuchi was still composing for the new DB movies and animes (which is a thing I would love to see, but I respect that he"s already very old to do it) he would need to ascend a lot his soundtracks to fit with it, because if you look, in early DB his soundtracks sounds a lot similar to the 30 and 40's cartoons, later he got something more unique, but most of his tracks in that time always sounded like a theme for military marchs (except if you count his soundtrack for the Red Ribbon arc, which was literally meant to looks like something military), later Z came and if you see he changed a lot his tracks, they beginned to be more modern, not sounding like very old as 30 and 40's cartoons and out of sounding similar to musics for something military, focusing more on orchestras and even entering in rock style, if you look that's one of the main reasons for why starting from the Androids arc, they used much less the Classic soundtracks, they stopped to use them frequentely as was in Freeza and Saiyans arc, and started to focus in the ascended new style of soundtrack that Kikuchi made for Z, now some example, if you was going to replace the BoG, RoF and Super Sumitomo soundtracks with Kikuchi, you would see that just his Z soundtracks would work 100% well in these, now Classic soundtracks, is possible to find places in the series for them, but now if you look now they wouldn't fit 100% as it would be if Z soundtracks were used in these three titles, his work in the Buu Arc soundtrack and the last 4 Z movies were somehing totally different from the previous soundtracks, this shows how he has ascended, that's my reason, I don't think Kikuchi's soundtracks sounds something very old, I just think that he would need to ascend the style of soundtracks to fit with the new musical generation in BoG, RoF and Super, but not changing very much, if not, he would not be so unique anymore.
I'm just a random person.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Regular
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Majin Buu » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:09 am

Rafa Fast wrote:In my opinion if Kikuchi was still composing for the new DB movies and animes (which is a thing I would love to see, but I respect that he"s already very old to do it) he would need to ascend a lot his soundtracks to fit with it, because if you look, in early DB his soundtracks sounds a lot similar to the 30 and 40's cartoons, later he got something more unique, but most of his tracks in that time always sounded like a theme for military marchs (except if you count his soundtrack for the Red Ribbon arc, which was literally meant to looks like something military), later Z came and if you see he changed a lot his tracks, they beginned to be more modern, not sounding like very old as 30 and 40's cartoons and out of sounding similar to musics for something military, focusing more on orchestras and even entering in rock style, if you look that's one of the main reasons for why starting from the Androids arc, they used much less the Classic soundtracks, they stopped to use them frequentely as was in Freeza and Saiyans arc, and started to focus in the ascended new style of soundtrack that Kikuchi made for Z, now some example, if you was going to replace the BoG, RoF and Super Sumitomo soundtracks with Kikuchi, you would see that just his Z soundtracks would work 100% well in these, now Classic soundtracks, is possible to find places in the series for them, but now if you look now they wouldn't fit 100% as it would be if Z soundtracks were used in these three titles, his work in the Buu Arc soundtrack and the last 4 Z movies were somehing totally different from the previous soundtracks, this shows how he has ascended, that's my reason, I don't think Kikuchi's soundtracks sounds something very old, I just think that he would need to ascend the style of soundtracks to fit with the new musical generation in BoG, RoF and Super, but not changing very much, if not, he would not be so unique anymore.


Yes, Kikuchi's score did evolve throughout his run on Dragon Ball, and it probably would have evolved again if he had returned, but the underlying style throughout it all was still his and that foundation never changed. It was more the tone (mostly comedic in early Dragon Ball to mostly dramatic from Piccolo Daimao onward into Z) and surface elements (more use of electric guitar in the Z era) that changed throughout his run.

Also, Kikuchi's music can sound march-like at times, but only at times. Just like how at times his music can sound vaguely blues-like.

User avatar
90sDBZ
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby 90sDBZ » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:07 pm

For me it goes:

Faulconer Productions > OG DB Kikuchi > Wasserman > Monster Rancher Westwood score from the late Buu saga > Yamamoto > Tokunaga > Z Kikuchi > Sumitomo > Jonson > Megaman Westwood score > Menza

User avatar
SpiritBombTriumphant
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby SpiritBombTriumphant » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:14 am

First place definitely goes to Tokunaga. He should have taken over as main composer for the series after GT (basically starting with Kai instead of the plagiarizer).

First: Tokunaga
Second: Faulconer
Third: Sumitomo
Fourth: Menza
Fifth: Levy
Sixth: Kikuchi
Seventh: Johnson (never really listened to him)

I refrained from giving Yamamoto a score since he plagiarized "his" music. If I ignored that, he most likely would have taken 2nd place from Faulconer and knocked everyone down by one. But honestly, everyone below Sumitomo (4th-7th) can all be reordered. I don't care for any of them in particular since I haven't listened to much of their music. Kikuchi would go up higher for authenticity to the original Z product, but I excluded that. Hell, I probably should've only done a top three since they're the only ones I know for sure how much I like them.

Thouser
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Texas

Re: If you were to rank all the scores in Dragon Ball

Postby Thouser » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:19 am

My ranking is just for the Z and Kai scores.

1. Kikuchi
2. Faulconer Productions
3. Wasserman
4. The AB Ocean dub library music from Mega Man and Monster Rancher. It’s weird watching Z with the Ruby Spears Mega Man theme playing, and I like it.
5. Sumitomo
6. Yamamoto. I never really liked his score and found it too generic sounding. I didn’t know it was plagiarized from mid-‘00s Hollywood soundtracks until later, but that probably contributed to it sounding that way.
7. Johnson was very forgettable.
"Like that bald punk? Killyin... You're talking about Killyin?!!" - Anime Labs

「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人


Return to “Music”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest