Battle of Scores: Tokunaga vs. Kikuchi

[NeoKING]

For me, Tokunaga's atmospheric OST trumps anything Kikuchi has ever done except a couple battle themes. His score worked even better outside of GT as seen vis-a-vis Path of Power and Hero's Legacy.

[Lord Beerus]

Nothing tops Kikuchi. He captured everything about Dragon Ball flawlessly. From the comedic moments, to the heartwarming moments, to the sad moments and the intense/awesome moments.

Kikuchi's OST is Dragon Ball.

[TheBlackPaladin]

If I had to pick, I'd pick Kikuchi, but Tokunaga composed some of my favorite pieces of all the animes. In particular, I'd point to GT episode 64 (the final episode of GT) as bordering on perfection when it comes to music placement. Unfortunately, a lot of those tracks remain unreleased. I keep looking out for GT anniversaries that end in multiples of 5 in the hopes that Columbia Records will suddenly announce the complete release of the OST...not that that's likely to happen...at all....but a guy can dream, right?

[InfernalVegito]

Kikuchi and Tokunaga created my favorite scores of all time. I think Kikuchi fits perfectly everything in DB and Z and I would have loved to see what he would have done in GT.

In recent time, however, Tokunaga's score has become my favorite thing out of the entire franchise and I listen to it almost religiously. It captured the dreamily nostalgic and futuristically spacey feel of GT to a T.

Love both scores forever.

[fadeddreams5]

Shouldn't this be in the music forum? >.>

Anyways, I have never heard Tokunaga's soundtrack. Any significant tracks I should be aware of?

[Bullza]

Faulconer.

Kikuchi's score is dull, repetitive and a snoozefest that takes all the excitement out of the show with it's incredibly dated sounding music.

[MarCas92]

Faulconer.

Kikuchi's score is dull, repetitive and a snoozefest that takes all the excitement out of the show with it's incredibly dated sounding music.

I can't tell if you're trolling.

But, if anything Faulconer's score is EVEN more dated. It just screams 90's. Whereas I don't think you could narrow Kikuchi's score to any particular time period. Maybe 60's-80's but even then that's a large gap. It helps make the score more timeless if anything, which fits better into the Dragon Ball world.

[FortuneSSJ]

Love both. Tokunaga was the best replacement for Kikuchi.
I always said that the only thing that never disappointed me in this series back then was the music.

Anyways, I have never heard Tokunaga's soundtrack. Any significant tracks I should be aware of?

All of them.

[fadeddreams5]

Faulconer.

Kikuchi's score is dull, repetitive and a snoozefest that takes all the excitement out of the show with it's incredibly dated sounding music.

I can't tell if you're trolling.

But, if anything Faulconer's score is EVEN more dated. It just screams 90's. Whereas I don't think you could narrow Kikuchi's score to any particular time period. Maybe 60's-80's but even then that's a large gap. It helps make the score more timeless if anything, which fits better into the Dragon Ball world.

To be fair, the series came out in the 90s, so it's fitting. People have been saying Kikuchi's OST sounds like something from the 60s since DBZ aired here in the US. Not to say it's bad in any way. =P

[Lord Beerus]

For the sake of comparison, I'd also like to add that, yes, Tokunaga's OST for GT is indeed fantastic, but I just feel as though Kikuchi captured the atmosphere of Dragon Ball much better than Tokunaga did.

[Bullza]

I can't tell if you're trolling.

Nope.

It helps make the score more timeless if anything, which fits better into the Dragon Ball world.

It makes it sound dated and older than it is. A series that ran into mid 90's yet has dreary 70's sounding music. There's no intensity in the soundtrack at all, it kicks all of the excitement out of the show entirely by having this monotonous music that sounded the same throughout the 10 years it aired.

It's no surprise to me that they replaced the music when it came to the American broadcast and Kai.

The Kai score was far better, plagiarised or not.

[fadeddreams5]

There's no intensity in the soundtrack at all

You know, that's always been my issue with it. Wish the Japanese OST had more themes like Solid State Scouter. =/

[DB1984]

Both composed great battle tunes.

Oh, and nothing against Yamamoto, but why didn't Tokunaga come back for Kai? He did a great job for the score to the otherwise lackluster GT. The music he did for The Path to Power wasn't too bad either. I think Tokunaga is the most underrated of all the DB composers.

[Lord Beerus]

It makes it sound dated and older than it is. A series that ran into mid 90's yet has dreary 70's sounding music. There's no intensity in the soundtrack at all, it kicks all of the excitement out of the show entirely by having this monotonous music that sounded the same throughout the 10 years it aired.

It's no surprise to me that they replaced the music when it came to the American broadcast and Kai.

The Kai score was far better, plagiarised or not.

Many people of the public seem to disagree with that notion.

And as far as no intensity goes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT2gJDw ... 2&index=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SADQoy ... 2&index=29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah_ca4L ... 5DC5E6B052
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYklWa1 ... 5DC5E6B052

You don't think any of those tracks sound intense?

[Bullza]

I've seen that before, the Japanese only have the one version of the score which is probably nostalgic for them.

For Western fans though there's not just the Faulconer and Kikuchi score to compare but also the Ocean score too.

I have no nostalgic feelings over any of them because I came into DBZ much later and the Faulconer score was the one I heard last but I absolutely think it's the best version.

It builds up the tension and excitement like the Japanese version never could. I've seen some of my favourite scenes like Goku turning SSJ3, Vegeta using the Final Flash, Gohan killing Cell etc in Japanese and the music takes away all of that away.

It also makes the show seem much more modern and recent whereas the Japanese has the opposite effect and makes it seem so very old.

It fit Dragon Ball kinda well but not Dragon Ball Z at all.

[Lord Beerus]

It also makes the show seem much more modern and recent whereas the Japanese has the opposite effect and makes it seem so very old.

Well, Dragon Ball ended in the mid 90s and began in the mid 80s. It's still at least thirty years old, so it's not recent or modern no matter what way you look at it.

[kenisu3000]

It helps make the score more timeless if anything, which fits better into the Dragon Ball world.

It makes it sound dated and older than it is. A series that ran into mid 90's yet has dreary 70's sounding music. There's no intensity in the soundtrack at all, it kicks all of the excitement out of the show entirely by having this monotonous music that sounded the same throughout the 10 years it aired.

It's no surprise to me that they replaced the music when it came to the American broadcast and Kai.

The Kai score was far better, plagiarised or not.

That's crazy talk. Dated does not equal bad, and shame on you for perpetuating that mindset. When you weigh a synthesized score that was made on the cheap, with extremely simple leitmotifs and not nearly enough cues that don't make one's ears bleed to save it as a whole, against an orchestra performing one intricate, earworm melody after another, and still come away with the opinion that "it sounds old so it's bad"... I just don't understand how people can think this way. It's an overwhemingly superficial stance to take.

[90sDBZ]

DB Kikuchi>Tokunaga>Z Kikuchi imo.

[Metalwario64]

It makes it sound dated and older than it is. A series that ran into mid 90's yet has dreary 70's sounding music. There's no intensity in the soundtrack at all, it kicks all of the excitement out of the show entirely by having this monotonous music that sounded the same throughout the 10 years it aired.

It certainly doesn't sound like "dreary 70s music". It sounds very much like lots of other 80s anime and cartoons of the time, though it also takes inspiration from older kung fu flicks, because that fits with the nature of the series, which is based in martial arts. Fist of the North Star has a very similar sounding, kung fu movie inspired score. Plus, as others have stated, what's wrong with something sounding old? If that's the card you want to play, then Faulconer's score is more dated, as it uses very outdated synthesizers, whereas Kikuchi's is a more timeless, orchestral score.

You also must not have heard much of it if you think there are no intense tracks, and that it sounds monotonous. If anything Faulconer's score is monotonous, with its constantly droning background music.

Here's an example, in Vegeta's Final Flash scene, the Japanese version uses a dynamic, building ominous piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dd_jtACCt4

On the other hand, the FUNimation dub version uses the "Dragon Theme" (which is very repetitive, with the same notes constantly repeating throughout the entire track), I do find the end to be pretty decent, when Vegeta's Super Saiyan theme plays, but that track is also sort of repetitive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yH7SIOkwU

Of course, since this seems to get lost so much on the internet, I must reiterate that these are my opinions, and that I'm not stating them as "fact". I also want to state that I'm very nostalgic for Faulconer's score. I certainly can't "hate" it as a result, and I still watch the cheesy, outdated English dub for nostalgia from time to time. I grew up on the Japanese version as well, and as I got older, I could see the Faulconer score as dated, cheap and cheesy, and I felt that Kikuchi's score is more timeless, and more masterfully composed. Plus, I also hate the idea of changing stuff to pander to an audience (or what you think your audience wants). That goes for way more stuff than old kids cartoons.


As for the topic, I definitely prefer Kikuchi to Tokunaga. The latter has some magnificent pieces for sure, but his score as a whole felt a bit limited, and his battle scores felt too lighthearted and upbeat, with some very MIDI sounding brass sections. I feel that Kikuchi has a much wider range. I prefer him to Sumitomo, and his score is probably on little bit better than Yamamoto's Kai score.

[fadeddreams5]

Here's an example, in Vegeta's Final Flash scene, the Japanese version uses a dynamic, building ominous piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dd_jtACCt4

On the other hand, the FUNimation dub version uses the "Dragon Theme" (which is very repetitive, with the same notes constantly repeating throughout the entire track), and what does that scene have to do with Shen Long anyway? The only decent part is at the end when Vegeta's Super Saiyan theme plays, but that track is also sort of repetitive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yH7SIOkwU

I get your points, but you chose a very bad comparison to show a Faulconer fan. That clip in the dub was amplified in epicness with that music, and is probably one of the most well-regarded among people who prefer the dub. = P

I really like both versions of that scene.