Strengths and Weaknesses of Each Composer

ekrolo2 · Post by **ekrolo2** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:49 pm

I'm one of the few guys who seems to like every Dragon Ball composer for one reason or another so I figured I'd share why I like them and hope to hear you guys do the same!

Kikuchi - He can set the mood like no one else, creating a real sense of tension and fear none of his successors or overseas replacements can manage to this very day. That being said, I'm not a fan of his action music. None of the tracks are bad per say and a few even stick out but they fail to really get me pumped for the action.

Tokunaga - Easily the most emotional hitting of all the composers for me. Scenes such as Golden Oozaru Goku remembering his family wouldn't hit anywhere near as hard with someone else doing the music. That being said, it fell into a trap we're going to see happen a lot here in that it can get pretty repetitive.

Yamamoto - My all-around favorite (plagiarism aside). He manages to hit it out of the park for me with music that ranges from majestic to tense to action packed and all of it is quite memorable. The con for him? He stole a lot of shit and that has to be factored in. Also, it can be pretty repetitive with how it was placed.

Sumitomo - The guy who pulls off the more orchestral stuff the best. Whether it's the various God transformations, Freeza's arrival or the themes of Goku Black, he can do dark and orchestral better than all the rest. His more relaxed songs leave a lot to be desired and he's really bad when he tries to be Japanese Faulconer. Speaking of whom...

Faulconer - Some may disagree with me, but I think rock &roll and Dragon Ball Z work quite well together and the Faulconer score is proof of that for me. His music is pretty action packed and his work for in the Boo Saga stands out for capturing the madness of Boo and with how it's placed. The problem? Really, really repetitive and doesn't know when to go the fuck away.

Mark Menza - Once again, rock and roll and Dragon Ball work together for me and his guitar tunes are actually pretty memorable for me. Goku using Dragon Fist to kill Omega wouldn't be half as cool as it is without him doing that scene. The problem? THE most repetitive of the bunch. Seriously, all of GTs score from his sounds the goddamn same!

That's pretty much all the composers I've listened to extensively. I didn't put in the Ocean people cause I've barely seen that material so yeah. What about you guys? What do you like/dislike in regards to the people who've done DB music over the years.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:28 pm

Kikuchi - His score provides that grand and epic wuxia nature that Dragon Ball encompasses as a whole. It's rich, diverse and even if you're not into Dragon Ball, it's just great music to listen to on its own. The only real fault I have with Kikuchi is that his track get a bit repetitive in the Majin Boo arc.

Tokunaga - He really took great strides from Kikuchi and provided a stellar soundtrack for GT and Path To Power that, much like Kikuchi's score, just really nailed the tone of Dragon Ball. The only weakness for this guy is that he never provided more music.

Yamamoto - *sigh* This guy. Well, I'll certainly give credit where it's due and say that his soundtracks for the videos games and Kai was bombastically brilliant and powerfully poignant when it wants to be... BUT... his best work in both regards is plagiarised. So... yeah... fuck him.

Summitomo - This guy is so frustrating. Someone in Toei really needs to have word in Sumitomo's ear and tell him to focus solely on full orchestral pieces, where he seems to truly shines in a major way as seen in Battle Of Gods and some parts of Super, as supposed to instead of wasting energy on all the synthesized shit he puts together. I was reminded one too many times of Crash Bandicoot listening to some of his tracks in Majin Boo Kai and Super. And while I love Crash Bandicoot, I don't want its type of music anywhere near Dragon Ball in any remote sense.

Faulconer - Produced a few decent tracks such as SSJ Theme, Vegeta's SSJ Theme, Gohan Power's Up and the SSJ3 Ascension Theme, but it's overall quality is greatly marred by a plateau of awful, droning, unfitting music that never knew when to shut the fuck up. The score honestly would fit more with a Transformers TV show from the 80s than Dragon Ball.

Menza - Not postiive about that guy. Literally nothing redeemable about any kind of music he's produced for Dragon Ball.

floofychan333 · Post by **floofychan333** » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:08 pm

I've only heard BGMs by these guys:

Kikuchi: Probably my favourite composer of all time. Able to write anything, use a variety of instruments, composed music so fitting with Dragon Ball that I'll never be able to truly enjoy Dragon Ball material with music not by Kikuchi. The man is the John Williams of anime.

Faulconer: I haven't listened to much because I was able to find DBZ with the Kikuchi score but from what I've heard it's unfitting and I think any replacement score is disrespectful to my hero Kikuchi.

Menza: I mostly disliked his score for movies but I didn't mind maybe one or two tracks.

Johnson: Surprisingly I liked one of his tracks in The World's Strongest. Other than that I don't remember but I would probably dislike this score because of my whole replacement issue.

Kelly: I didn't like anything about this score in Bardock. Ruined the whole experience for me.

Kakacarrottop · Post by **Kakacarrottop** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:35 am

Kikuchi score

Pros: It's the original soundtrack, so all the animation in DB and DBZ was intended to have this music accompanying it. And on its own merit it's pretty decent music.

Cons: It has a strong 60s/70s vibe to it, which is a turn off for people who watch DBZ for the action.

Ron Wasserman score (Ocean/Saban/FUNi dub)

Pros: The music helps heighten the intensity of all the fight scenes. There's also a lot of triumphant music reminiscent of classic American superhero shows.

Cons: Some of the comedic music sounds like it came from Rugrats or something. There's also a lack of sad music.

Faulconer score (FUNi in-house dub)

Pros: Similar to the Wasserman soundtrack, since it helps lift the intensity. Some of the music also has a really epic or grandiose feel to it.

Cons: At its core, Dragon Ball is a Martial Arts show rooted in ancient Asian mythology. The ultra modern techno sound from Faulconer is just totally inappropriate.

Tom Keenlyside and John Lee Mitchell score (Ocean/Westwood dub)

Pros: It had pretty decent comedic and heroic music. Some of the rock tracks (such as "The Army Theme") weren't that bad either.

Cons: It's all recycled from the generic Mega Man & Monster Rancher cartoons. The placement was also terrible. Scenes like Goku going SSJ3 were botched in the Ocean dub thanks to whoever was in charge of the music editing.

Peter Berring score (BLT/Ocean/FUNi DB dub)

Pros: It has a mythical vibe which suited early DB quite well.

Cons: At times it made Dragon Ball feel like some generic kid's show.

Aside from Tokunaga, all the other composers i haven't mentioned are terrible, imo.

Saikyo no Senshi · Post by **Saikyo no Senshi** » Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:23 am

Kikuchi: His music is what got me into DB. The mystic vibe that DB has can be felt through his music perfectly. Some really really great pieces which makes the show 10x better. It is so memorable which is what makes it universally loved. My only problem is the repetitiveness at times but it doesn't bother me that much.

Tokunaga: The true successor to Kikuchi. The music in GT is one of its strong points. He trashes Yamamoto and Sumitomo with ease. The mystic DB vibe is felt in his music as well. His weakness is him not continuing to provide music for DB.

Sumitomo: Awful for the most part. But there are signs of improvement especially with the Mirai Trunks arc of Super. His music is horrible when it comes to light hearted DB so that is where he needs to improve.

Yamamoto: Nothing special. His score is one of the primary reasons I didn't watch that horrible mess called DB Kai. His work in the video games is definitely credit worthy but who knows what is his own and what is plagiarised.

Levy/Wasserman: One or two decent tracks but overall meh. But is the only English composer who I don't find unbearable so that's something.

Team Faulconer: Forgettable, ear bleeding, rock music which doesn't shut up and the "Americanized " feel to it cause of which the mystic feel to DB is lost. Overall not fitting even in the slightest.

Menza: Same as Team Faulconer. Bland, boring, unfitting and nothing memorable.

- Travis

Black_Liger · Post by **Black_Liger** » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:32 am

Kikuchi:

Pros: Mythical soundtrack, sets the mood, his main theme variations are always spot on, some call him the John Williams of dragon ball, and they ain't wrong.

Cons: His scores are almost never grand, they almost never reach a bombastic state, atleast with his action music, what I mean by bombastic is something like a huge orchestra going all out, specially because he lacks french horns. The majin buu arc has a conflict with a demon against the gods and mortals, yet the music still resembles 60's kungfu movie music, there's some questionable content in his music that most people neglect, like the "twoink twoink" sound in db used even on sad music that ruins it completely, also the vibraslap used on serious tracks is horrible joke.

Tokunaga:

Pros: This guy has the best emotional themes, and Good Lord he never stopped improving, his scores can feel grand, emotional, soothing, misterious, all at the same time, I will never, EVER, forget his score for path to power, the last choral pieces as definitely 2 of the best dragon ball music tracks ever made.

Cons: His music seemed to recieve less budget than kikuchi, as there is rarely any track with real orchestra, it's mostly synthetized, you can really notice the bad quality of the sounds, he also didn't compose much, so his score might get repetitive after a while.

Yamamoto:

Pros: His music for kai is very diverse, you can get a good cello track, a solo choir track, then a suspenseful gregorian choir with staccato double basses, then go cybernetic or horror like for the android arc.

Cons: the variety is because he fucking plagiarized it from different sources.

Faulconer:

Pros: Very good music on it's owns, well, atleast the mainstream themes everyone loves, there's no denying his team made some great, unforgettable tracks for dragon ball.

Cons: They guy almost never composed anything, and his score is the most repetitive score in the whole universe!, and there's not a single silent moment!!.

Sumitomo:

Pros: Some of his orchestral stuff is something I doubt kikuchi or any other the others could ever hope to compose (except maybe Tokunaga with the right orchestra), he brings the GRAND feeling in his choir based scores, many of the most epic, bombastic scores the franchise have are thanks to him.

Cons: He is however a very questionable composer when it comes to happy tracks, they tend to.... not make the cut... or outright suck, he should also be banned from ever using synthethizers for the rest of his life!. I also don't appreciate his use of sampled percussion and sounds, but I am beginning to think he made some of the ones I've heard, and he's not even using them for FT arc in super, so I'm giving him a blind eye on this one for now.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:43 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Yamamoto - My all-around favorite (plagiarism aside). He manages to hit it out of the park for me with music that ranges from majestic to tense to action packed and all of it is quite memorable. The con for him? He stole a lot of shit and that has to be factored in. Also, it can be pretty repetitive with how it was placed.

That really has nothing to do with the composer.

Dbzfan94 · Post by **Dbzfan94** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:46 pm

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:bashing with no mention of some strengths

I think you missed the point of the thread.

Bansho64 · Post by **Bansho64** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:12 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:bashing with no mention of some strengths
I think you missed the point of the thread.

How? The point of the thread was to mention either strengths or weaknesses of composers. If he feels one was horrible, with no redeeming qualities, then he has a right to say it.

Dbzfan94 · Post by **Dbzfan94** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:17 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Saikyo no Senshi wrote:bashing with no mention of some strengths
I think you missed the point of the thread.
How? The point of the thread was to mention either strengths or weaknesses of composers. If he feels one was horrible, with no redeeming qualities, then he has a right to say it.

Strengths and Weaknesess

Bansho64 · Post by **Bansho64** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:19 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: Strengths and Weaknesess

It never says he has to do that. And what if he thinks the music doesn't have any strengths? He still has the right to post it.

Dbzfan94 · Post by **Dbzfan94** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:23 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: Strengths and Weaknesess
It never says he has to do that. And what if he thinks the music doesn't have any strengths? He still has the right to post it.

I'm sure you (generally speaking) can find one good thing about each of the composers. It's not hard. He still has the right to, but unfairly shitting on the other composers without mentioning one positive thing decreases the "neutrality" of the thread. Everytime someone tries to have a discussion about what they like about both sub and dub, pro Nozawa, or dub positivity, etc, someone has to come in and kill that mood. Is just begs the question of why?

Jinzoningen MULE · Post by **Jinzoningen MULE** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:30 pm

floofychan333 wrote:I've only heard BGMs by these guys:

Kikuchi: Probably my favourite composer of all time. Able to write anything, use a variety of instruments, composed music so fitting with Dragon Ball that I'll never be able to truly enjoy Dragon Ball material with music not by Kikuchi. The man is the John Williams of anime.

Faulconer: I haven't listened to much because I was able to find DBZ with the Kikuchi score but from what I've heard it's unfitting and I think any replacement score is disrespectful to my hero Kikuchi.

Menza: I mostly disliked his score for movies but I didn't mind maybe one or two tracks.

Johnson: Surprisingly I liked one of his tracks in The World's Strongest. Other than that I don't remember but I would probably dislike this score because of my whole replacement issue.

Kelly: I didn't like anything about this score in Bardock. Ruined the whole experience for me.

The Orange Bricks (or DBZ Blu-rays) and Green Bricks have the replacement scores, and are pretty cheap. I encourage you to buy both, if only to give extra support to the official release.

Bansho64 · Post by **Bansho64** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:44 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: I'm sure you (generally speaking) can find one good thing about each of the composers. It's not hard. He still has the right to, but unfairly shitting on the other composers without mentioning one positive thing decreases the "neutrality" of the thread. Everytime someone tries to have a discussion about what they like about both sub and dub, pro Nozawa, or dub positivity, etc, someone has to come in and kill that mood. Is just begs the question of why?

How did the dub vs sub argument come into this anyway? No one ever once brought that up. And what positivity is getting killed? Nothing here is getting "killed" so to speak. And how is he unfarily judging the other composers? It's his opinion. If he doesn't find one good thing about Faulconer and Menza, then that is perfectly fine. Him not mentioning something positive about them just means there isn't anything he can find. And there is nothing wrong with that. There's no "neutrality" getting decreased whatsoever.

Dbzfan94 · Post by **Dbzfan94** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:30 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: I'm sure you (generally speaking) can find one good thing about each of the composers. It's not hard. He still has the right to, but unfairly shitting on the other composers without mentioning one positive thing decreases the "neutrality" of the thread. Everytime someone tries to have a discussion about what they like about both sub and dub, pro Nozawa, or dub positivity, etc, someone has to come in and kill that mood. Is just begs the question of why?
How did the dub vs sub argument come into this anyway? No one ever once brought that up. And what positivity is getting killed? Nothing here is getting "killed" so to speak. And how is he unfarily judging the other composers? It's his opinion. If he doesn't find one good thing about Faulconer and Menza, then that is perfectly fine. Him not mentioning something positive about them just means there isn't anything he can find. And there is nothing wrong with that. There's no "neutrality" getting decreased whatsoever.

It was an example, my point is that I'm sure there is something positive about the other composers besides Kikuchi and Tokunaga

Jinzoningen MULE · Post by **Jinzoningen MULE** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:35 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: I'm sure you (generally speaking) can find one good thing about each of the composers. It's not hard. He still has the right to, but unfairly shitting on the other composers without mentioning one positive thing decreases the "neutrality" of the thread. Everytime someone tries to have a discussion about what they like about both sub and dub, pro Nozawa, or dub positivity, etc, someone has to come in and kill that mood. Is just begs the question of why?
How did the dub vs sub argument come into this anyway? No one ever once brought that up. And what positivity is getting killed? Nothing here is getting "killed" so to speak. And how is he unfarily judging the other composers? It's his opinion. If he doesn't find one good thing about Faulconer and Menza, then that is perfectly fine. Him not mentioning something positive about them just means there isn't anything he can find. And there is nothing wrong with that. There's no "neutrality" getting decreased whatsoever.
It was an example, my point is that I'm sure there is something positive about the other composers besides Kikuchi and Tokunaga

It doesn't matter, this isn't about playing nicey nice and giving everyone a redeeming quality, these are opinions. Why even bother starting trouble?

Bansho64 · Post by **Bansho64** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:10 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: It was an example, my point is that I'm sure there is something positive about the other composers besides Kikuchi and Tokunaga

In your opinion. This thread us about offering your opinions on composers. One particular user offered his honest opinions and you called out him for it. Why would you wanna start trouble over this? Why? If he only likes Kikuchi and Tokunaga, then that's fine. It's his personal taste. And,hell, he should be proud of it.

This honestly sounds to me like you want him to list some strengths for those composers because that's what you wanna read. But that's not what's gonna happen here. Because it's not fair to others to have to feel forced to offer strengths about composers that they honestly don't feel have any.

Dbzfan94 · Post by **Dbzfan94** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:19 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: It was an example, my point is that I'm sure there is something positive about the other composers besides Kikuchi and Tokunaga
In your opinion. This thread us about offering your opinions on composers. One particular user offered his honest opinions and you called out him for it. Why would you wanna start trouble over this? Why? If he only likes Kikuchi and Tokunaga, then that's fine. It's his personal taste. And,hell, he should be proud of it.

This honestly sounds to me like you want him to list some strengths for those composers because that's what you wanna read. But that's not what's gonna happen here. Because it's not fair to others to have to feel forced to offer strengths about composers that they honestly don't feel have any.

Yeah... You're right. Sorry.

Bansho64 · Post by **Bansho64** » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:37 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: Yeah... You're right. Sorry.

No problem man. And after reading my previous response to you, I can see I was more aggressive than I should've been. I'm very sorry for that. And, if it means anything, I do feel Faulconer and Yamamoto do have their respective strengths in their score. And again, my apologies for being a bit rude earlier. To me, at first, it just felt like you were being rude to the guy but I see now I was wrong. You were only defending something you felt should've been given more credit. And, as I can see now, that is certainly admirable and relatable. No hard feelings man

Kanzenshuu

Strengths and Weaknesses of Each Composer

Strengths and Weaknesses of Each Composer

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