Bruce Faulconer

Discussion regarding any musical aspect of the franchise, from game soundtracks to BGM to remixes. Upcoming & classic CDs, reviews, where to find them, and more!

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
nato25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by nato25 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:27 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
nato25 wrote: I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
I really hate it when people pull this just because somebody likes something they don't. I like some of the tracks made by this dude and I grew up with Kai. Didn't even find out about the Ocean dub until last year. And I really think there's some good music in there. Nostalgia isn't always a factor in genuinely liking something.
Thats fair enough man I was just saying I don't see what is enjoyable about it so that was my rationale. Music is like food in my opinion, some people just plain hate things that other people love.

User avatar
MaxZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:52 am
Location: Saskatchewan
Contact:

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by MaxZ » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:26 pm

I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.

personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)

I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.

some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.

User avatar
Jinzoningen MULE
I Live Here
Posts: 4405
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Salt Mines

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:08 am

MaxZ wrote:I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.

personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)

I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.

some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
Besides just not liking the music, my main problem with the Faulconer score is the lack of any down time. It's as if their target audience were cocain addicts, always running 1000 miles an hour whether the scene actually reflects that or not. For me, the unforgivable sin for any score is misrepresenting the piece that it's pasted on to.
Retired.

User avatar
Nejishiki
I Live Here
Posts: 2406
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:45 am

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Nejishiki » Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:07 am

That's an oddly specific criteria. While it doesn't work in the context of Faulconer Productions Dragon Ball Z, many scores "misrepresent" what's on the screen with intention. You'll usually find this in comedies, but it works to great effect in the horror genre, for one example. Consider not branding things in absolutes. You'll be surprised at what can work despite resistance towards the idea.

User avatar
MaxZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 2:52 am
Location: Saskatchewan
Contact:

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by MaxZ » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:07 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
MaxZ wrote:I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.

personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)

I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.

some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
Besides just not liking the music, my main problem with the Faulconer score is the lack of any down time. It's as if their target audience were cocain addicts, always running 1000 miles an hour whether the scene actually reflects that or not. For me, the unforgivable sin for any score is misrepresenting the piece that it's pasted on to.
that's a fair criticism. the Faulconer score could have used a little more silence than it had, definitely.

User avatar
Daisetsu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Daisetsu » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:31 am

That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.

User avatar
Jinzoningen MULE
I Live Here
Posts: 4405
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Salt Mines

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:40 am

Daisetsu wrote:That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.
Why does it even matter who made that choice? I was not criticizing Faulconer the man, or even Faulconer the team. I'm criticizing the score as it appeared during broadcast and on subsequent home releases. Also, I have the entire Faulconer Score on my PC. Out of about 250 tracks, there are maybe 20 laid-back tracks, the rest vary from mild hype tracks to FAST ACTION SUGAR COCAIN!!!. Ignoring the bad placement, there's a significant lack of variety.
Retired.

User avatar
TeeHallums
Newbie
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by TeeHallums » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:26 pm

Daisetsu wrote:That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.
This is a point I find myself making more and more each day. Whether you think the style of music the Faulconer brought fits Dragon Ball or not is a matter of opinion. However, saying that Bruce Faulconer productions is a bad studio who produces bad music is a bit ridiculous. The direction of the music, as well as the frequency of music, was the creation of Funimaton and their creative direction, not Faulconer productions.
Scott Morgan, who worked for Faulconer productions and produced quite a few tracks for the dbz soundtrack, is fairly active online and in the DBZ community, and has talked many a times about how little control they had over the music they did for dbz, saying they even created a few very minimalistic tracks to be played in moments they thought should be silent to get around Funi's wall-to-wall music requirement.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:11 pm

nato25 wrote:I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
The problem with that argument is how easily I could turn that around on you. Chris Psaro, for example, was an extremely vocal purist back in the day, and I know he had watched DBZ in Japanese first. So if he ever tried that on me, I'd immediately fire back with "Yeah? Well I think YOU listened to KIKUCHI first, and that's why YOU like it".

Me personally, the Legacy of Goku games were the first time I heard the Team Faulconer score; it wasn't until later that I rematches the series with it. Up till then, I had grown up on Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza; yet I could tell Team Faulconer was clearly better than Menza, and couldn't remember anything from Johnson. Kikuchi was last; and I actually had a very FAVORABLE impression of it at first. My first exposure was the Goku vs. Vegeta fight, and I loved the way it was punctuated with long moments of silence. I could immediately tell that it was a darn sight better than how the fight was handled in the Ocean dub.

...

Then the years passed, and I came to realize that it OVERUSED silence just as much as FUNI had overused music. And, imo, it often lacked the proper intensity and tempo needed to cover the action onscreen, didn't have as much musical variety as Team Faulconer (whose style ranged from energetic techno, to heavy rock, to cheerful orchestral music, to somber ambience, and even to shocking horror music), and also did not have character themes as distinct as what Team Faulconer had.

The bottom line is, both scores have their strengths and weaknesses; I just happened to find Team Faulconer to be more appealing.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
nato25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by nato25 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:07 pm

Fionordequester wrote:
nato25 wrote:I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
The problem with that argument is how easily I could turn that around on you. Chris Psaro, for example, was an extremely vocal purist back in the day, and I know he had watched DBZ in Japanese first. So if he ever tried that on me, I'd immediately fire back with "Yeah? Well I think YOU listened to KIKUCHI first, and that's why YOU like it".

Me personally, the Legacy of Goku games were the first time I heard the Team Faulconer score; it wasn't until later that I rematches the series with it. Up till then, I had grown up on Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza; yet I could tell Team Faulconer was clearly better than Menza, and couldn't remember anything from Johnson. Kikuchi was last; and I actually had a very FAVORABLE impression of it at first. My first exposure was the Goku vs. Vegeta fight, and I loved the way it was punctuated with long moments of silence. I could immediately tell that it was a darn sight better than how the fight was handled in the Ocean dub.

...

Then the years passed, and I came to realize that it OVERUSED silence just as much as FUNI had overused music. And, imo, it often lacked the proper intensity and tempo needed to cover the action onscreen, didn't have as much musical variety as Team Faulconer (whose style ranged from energetic techno, to heavy rock, to cheerful orchestral music, to somber ambience, and even to shocking horror music), and also did not have character themes as distinct as what Team Faulconer had.

The bottom line is, both scores have their strengths and weaknesses; I just happened to find Team Faulconer to be more appealing.
Yeah I know my comment may have sounded harsh which I apologise for. I was just trying to say I personally don't see any redeeming qualities in the pre-episode 64 music (Levi or whoever else made it). If I'm watching the season sets I just go for the original Japanese soundtrack in those early episodes until the Faulconer track comes on. I always see music like food. I hate oysters for example but I know they are popular with a lot of people. Everyones got their own taste and opinion and you can try and showcase your own opinion to change someones mind but that's seldom going to work. I love seeing comparisons and analytical reviews comparing the soundtrack though which is what I attempted on the first page of this with the Gohan going SSJ comparison with the Faulconer and Kikuchi tracks. Hopefully some people do more like those.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:25 pm

nato25 wrote:Yeah I know my comment may have sounded harsh which I apologise for. I was just trying to say I personally don't see any redeeming qualities in the pre-episode 64 music (Levi or whoever else made it). If I'm watching the season sets I just go for the original Japanese soundtrack in those early episodes until the Faulconer track comes on. I always see music like food. I hate oysters for example but I know they are popular with a lot of people. Everyones got their own taste and opinion and you can try and showcase your own opinion to change someones mind but that's seldom going to work. I love seeing comparisons and analytical reviews comparing the soundtrack though which is what I attempted on the first page of this with the Gohan going SSJ comparison with the Faulconer and Kikuchi tracks. Hopefully some people do more like those.
Ooohhhh, that brings me back man...I actually did something like that with Episodes 68-70. I would compare the entire episodes in both video format and text format, all while giving my opinion on how I felt about the different versions...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16991&p=464608#p464608

That was all pretty cool, but it eventually turned out to be too much work at the time. Nowadays, I think about reviving it...but, there are still two things that stymies me...

1) I'd want the original 1999 broadcast audio, not the patch job that was done in 2007. And I'm not sure of a legal way to show that on YouTube.

2) I don't know of a good dialogue transcription site for the two versions, which meant that I spent a heck ton of time transcribing dialogue. DEFINITELY not doing THAT again...

Would anyone happen to know a way of dealing with these two obstacles?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Bansho64
I Live Here
Posts: 2036
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:59 am

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Bansho64 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:39 pm

Fionordequester wrote: Would anyone happen to know a way of dealing with these two obstacles?
Well, I can definitely help ya out with the first one! :P
I recommend you get the edited Season 3 VHS tapes. They're pretty much identical to the 1999 broadcast audio.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:42 pm

Mm. And would it be permissible to upload it to YouTube? Would that count as Fair Use?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Jinzoningen MULE
I Live Here
Posts: 4405
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Salt Mines

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:49 pm

Fionordequester wrote:Mm. And would it be permissible to upload it to YouTube? Would that count as Fair Use?
That would definitely not fall under Fair Use.
Retired.

User avatar
nato25
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by nato25 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:30 am

Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5673
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:48 pm

nato25 wrote:Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.
Clips do, not full episodes. As a huge Faulconer fan myself I'd be interested to see the differences.

User avatar
Jinzoningen MULE
I Live Here
Posts: 4405
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Salt Mines

Re: Bruce Faulconer

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:09 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
nato25 wrote:Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.
Clips do, not full episodes. As a huge Faulconer fan myself I'd be interested to see the differences.
Correct.

If anyone does through some comparisons up, just link them here. I'll want to throw them in my comparison archive because I like comparisons too much.
Retired.

Post Reply