Thats fair enough man I was just saying I don't see what is enjoyable about it so that was my rationale. Music is like food in my opinion, some people just plain hate things that other people love.Bansho64 wrote:I really hate it when people pull this just because somebody likes something they don't. I like some of the tracks made by this dude and I grew up with Kai. Didn't even find out about the Ocean dub until last year. And I really think there's some good music in there. Nostalgia isn't always a factor in genuinely liking something.nato25 wrote: I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
Bruce Faulconer
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
- MaxZ
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.
personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)
I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.
some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)
I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.
some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Besides just not liking the music, my main problem with the Faulconer score is the lack of any down time. It's as if their target audience were cocain addicts, always running 1000 miles an hour whether the scene actually reflects that or not. For me, the unforgivable sin for any score is misrepresenting the piece that it's pasted on to.MaxZ wrote:I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.
personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)
I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.
some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
That's an oddly specific criteria. While it doesn't work in the context of Faulconer Productions Dragon Ball Z, many scores "misrepresent" what's on the screen with intention. You'll usually find this in comedies, but it works to great effect in the horror genre, for one example. Consider not branding things in absolutes. You'll be surprised at what can work despite resistance towards the idea.
- MaxZ
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
that's a fair criticism. the Faulconer score could have used a little more silence than it had, definitely.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Besides just not liking the music, my main problem with the Faulconer score is the lack of any down time. It's as if their target audience were cocain addicts, always running 1000 miles an hour whether the scene actually reflects that or not. For me, the unforgivable sin for any score is misrepresenting the piece that it's pasted on to.MaxZ wrote:I have like 15 BF tracks on my phone, I love it.
personally, I find the Faulconer score superior. not because the Japanese score is bad, but because it's repetitive and the big moments never have a special song. it's always just some song recycled from earlier, and often an ill fitting one. (with the major exception of Gohan's ascension, which had an amazing Japanese track)
I love that the Faulconer song has themes for different characters, and I just find it gives the scenes more weight.
some might be inclined to say I'm biased, but they'd be wrong. I actually watched the whole series with the Japanese score before I ever saw it with the Faulconer score. when I rewatched it with BF I liked it better.
Re: Bruce Faulconer
That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Why does it even matter who made that choice? I was not criticizing Faulconer the man, or even Faulconer the team. I'm criticizing the score as it appeared during broadcast and on subsequent home releases. Also, I have the entire Faulconer Score on my PC. Out of about 250 tracks, there are maybe 20 laid-back tracks, the rest vary from mild hype tracks to FAST ACTION SUGAR COCAIN!!!. Ignoring the bad placement, there's a significant lack of variety.Daisetsu wrote:That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.
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- TeeHallums
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
This is a point I find myself making more and more each day. Whether you think the style of music the Faulconer brought fits Dragon Ball or not is a matter of opinion. However, saying that Bruce Faulconer productions is a bad studio who produces bad music is a bit ridiculous. The direction of the music, as well as the frequency of music, was the creation of Funimaton and their creative direction, not Faulconer productions.Daisetsu wrote:That's not a justifiable criticism. The constant music is all Funimation's fault, not Faulconer Productions. Heck, I remember reading (but I could very well be wrong here) that Faulconer didn't want to do the constant music thing in the first place.
Scott Morgan, who worked for Faulconer productions and produced quite a few tracks for the dbz soundtrack, is fairly active online and in the DBZ community, and has talked many a times about how little control they had over the music they did for dbz, saying they even created a few very minimalistic tracks to be played in moments they thought should be silent to get around Funi's wall-to-wall music requirement.
- Fionordequester
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
The problem with that argument is how easily I could turn that around on you. Chris Psaro, for example, was an extremely vocal purist back in the day, and I know he had watched DBZ in Japanese first. So if he ever tried that on me, I'd immediately fire back with "Yeah? Well I think YOU listened to KIKUCHI first, and that's why YOU like it".nato25 wrote:I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
Me personally, the Legacy of Goku games were the first time I heard the Team Faulconer score; it wasn't until later that I rematches the series with it. Up till then, I had grown up on Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza; yet I could tell Team Faulconer was clearly better than Menza, and couldn't remember anything from Johnson. Kikuchi was last; and I actually had a very FAVORABLE impression of it at first. My first exposure was the Goku vs. Vegeta fight, and I loved the way it was punctuated with long moments of silence. I could immediately tell that it was a darn sight better than how the fight was handled in the Ocean dub.
...
Then the years passed, and I came to realize that it OVERUSED silence just as much as FUNI had overused music. And, imo, it often lacked the proper intensity and tempo needed to cover the action onscreen, didn't have as much musical variety as Team Faulconer (whose style ranged from energetic techno, to heavy rock, to cheerful orchestral music, to somber ambience, and even to shocking horror music), and also did not have character themes as distinct as what Team Faulconer had.
The bottom line is, both scores have their strengths and weaknesses; I just happened to find Team Faulconer to be more appealing.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Re: Bruce Faulconer
Yeah I know my comment may have sounded harsh which I apologise for. I was just trying to say I personally don't see any redeeming qualities in the pre-episode 64 music (Levi or whoever else made it). If I'm watching the season sets I just go for the original Japanese soundtrack in those early episodes until the Faulconer track comes on. I always see music like food. I hate oysters for example but I know they are popular with a lot of people. Everyones got their own taste and opinion and you can try and showcase your own opinion to change someones mind but that's seldom going to work. I love seeing comparisons and analytical reviews comparing the soundtrack though which is what I attempted on the first page of this with the Gohan going SSJ comparison with the Faulconer and Kikuchi tracks. Hopefully some people do more like those.Fionordequester wrote:The problem with that argument is how easily I could turn that around on you. Chris Psaro, for example, was an extremely vocal purist back in the day, and I know he had watched DBZ in Japanese first. So if he ever tried that on me, I'd immediately fire back with "Yeah? Well I think YOU listened to KIKUCHI first, and that's why YOU like it".nato25 wrote:I'm guessing a lot of fans of that music grew up watching the original dub on syndication because nostalgia is the only reason I can think of for fans liking it.
Me personally, the Legacy of Goku games were the first time I heard the Team Faulconer score; it wasn't until later that I rematches the series with it. Up till then, I had grown up on Nathan Johnson and Mark Menza; yet I could tell Team Faulconer was clearly better than Menza, and couldn't remember anything from Johnson. Kikuchi was last; and I actually had a very FAVORABLE impression of it at first. My first exposure was the Goku vs. Vegeta fight, and I loved the way it was punctuated with long moments of silence. I could immediately tell that it was a darn sight better than how the fight was handled in the Ocean dub.
...
Then the years passed, and I came to realize that it OVERUSED silence just as much as FUNI had overused music. And, imo, it often lacked the proper intensity and tempo needed to cover the action onscreen, didn't have as much musical variety as Team Faulconer (whose style ranged from energetic techno, to heavy rock, to cheerful orchestral music, to somber ambience, and even to shocking horror music), and also did not have character themes as distinct as what Team Faulconer had.
The bottom line is, both scores have their strengths and weaknesses; I just happened to find Team Faulconer to be more appealing.
- Fionordequester
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Ooohhhh, that brings me back man...I actually did something like that with Episodes 68-70. I would compare the entire episodes in both video format and text format, all while giving my opinion on how I felt about the different versions...nato25 wrote:Yeah I know my comment may have sounded harsh which I apologise for. I was just trying to say I personally don't see any redeeming qualities in the pre-episode 64 music (Levi or whoever else made it). If I'm watching the season sets I just go for the original Japanese soundtrack in those early episodes until the Faulconer track comes on. I always see music like food. I hate oysters for example but I know they are popular with a lot of people. Everyones got their own taste and opinion and you can try and showcase your own opinion to change someones mind but that's seldom going to work. I love seeing comparisons and analytical reviews comparing the soundtrack though which is what I attempted on the first page of this with the Gohan going SSJ comparison with the Faulconer and Kikuchi tracks. Hopefully some people do more like those.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16991&p=464608#p464608
That was all pretty cool, but it eventually turned out to be too much work at the time. Nowadays, I think about reviving it...but, there are still two things that stymies me...
1) I'd want the original 1999 broadcast audio, not the patch job that was done in 2007. And I'm not sure of a legal way to show that on YouTube.
2) I don't know of a good dialogue transcription site for the two versions, which meant that I spent a heck ton of time transcribing dialogue. DEFINITELY not doing THAT again...
Would anyone happen to know a way of dealing with these two obstacles?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Re: Bruce Faulconer
Well, I can definitely help ya out with the first one!Fionordequester wrote: Would anyone happen to know a way of dealing with these two obstacles?
I recommend you get the edited Season 3 VHS tapes. They're pretty much identical to the 1999 broadcast audio.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Mm. And would it be permissible to upload it to YouTube? Would that count as Fair Use?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
That would definitely not fall under Fair Use.Fionordequester wrote:Mm. And would it be permissible to upload it to YouTube? Would that count as Fair Use?
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.
Re: Bruce Faulconer
Clips do, not full episodes. As a huge Faulconer fan myself I'd be interested to see the differences.nato25 wrote:Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Bruce Faulconer
Correct.Dbzfan94 wrote:Clips do, not full episodes. As a huge Faulconer fan myself I'd be interested to see the differences.nato25 wrote:Comparisons don't fall under fair use? I mean you would probably have to use clips but I'd assume you would do that anyway.
If anyone does through some comparisons up, just link them here. I'll want to throw them in my comparison archive because I like comparisons too much.
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