Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

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Rukawa11
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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Rukawa11 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:09 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Rukawa11 wrote:I agree that it comes down to what era the series was produced in. Alternative Rock/ Nu Metal didn't pervade Anime soundtracks until early 2000, so technically anything produced before then would sound awkward.
FUNimation was simply the last one to drunkenly stumble on the bandwagon, by which point everyone else had already jumped ship.

The quintessential example of this is probably the Street Fighter II movie with Korn and Alice in Chains and KMFDM when it came out here in 1995. My recollection of the last-gasp was the Tekken movie with Stabbing Westward and the Offspring in 1998.

FUNimation with Deftones and Drowning Pool and Pantera and stuff? 2001 through 2003.
Although to be fair, 2001-2003 films such as The One, The Matrix Reloaded, Daredevil, and Queen of the Damned had likewise included the above bands along with P.O.D, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Evanescence...etc.

American bands aside, an all-rock Anime instrumental soundtrack was incredibly rare until the late 90's, and despite of the fact that:
90sDBZ wrote:there's not really anything in-universe that would suggest that Dragonball/Z is supposed to represent the real life 1980s or 1990s that it was produced in. It's a timeless story set in a bizarre fictional world that happens to be very diverse
I believe the dated DBZ animation itself would make a rock soundtrack sound awkward. I still remember Movie 5 having a post-grunge ending song that sounds like late 90's Creed playing while Cooler's men attacked Goku: the combination was dreadful imo.
Kunzait_83 wrote:Mike/EX is the only person who's even kind of approached talking about what I think is the root core problem lurking behind a lot of these discussions: I think a LOT of people were very thoroughly sold on Dragon Ball Z being this totally contemporary "new hotness" entity that supposedly embodied the zeitgeist of the time (late 90s/early 2000s) and finding out that it wasn't originally actually that at all just... fucks with some people's minds on some deep seated gut reactionary level that maybe even they're not fully aware of.
Don't wanna bring the arguments from "Does DBZ's ost feel lackluster at times?" over here. But I just wanna point out that, even for those like myself whose first exposure to DBZ had been Japanese fansubbed video tapes (followed by taped episodes of the French dub from a channel called "Mangas," and then, the Funimation dub), I still don't think what Kikuchi had done (or rather, what he hadn't done) with 1992-1996 period DBZ is excusable.
The biggest Anime series of that era being the only one with 70's sounding music that would turn off anyone who isn't deeply invested in the series is criminal. I honestly need reminding sometimes that Mystic Gohan or Vegetto's fights with Super Boo had aired during the same time as Evangelion, Slam Dunk, Fushigi Yuugi, Slayers...etc.

Kikuchi's music had basically rendered each DBZ scene ten years older than it actually is. His score may far exceed all the English DB/Z/GT soundtracks, but it pales in comparison Super Butouden or Ultimate Battle 22 's music.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:06 pm

Sometimes it wasn't timed right or used properly, especially in a few of the movies. Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan for example abused it too much, and they chose pretty questionable songs. But I enjoyed their choice of music for Cooler's Revenge (particularly the ending song, gives me bumps across my arms every time I hear it at the end!). But there was 1 song I always hated in Cooler's Revenge, it was "The Game" by Disturbed. I could never understand groups like that and their following... But we all have opinions I guess. The rest of Cooler's soundtrack was great and fit with the background.

I'm thankful that the DBZ series itself was not entirely rock with Bruce Faulconer's soundtrack, and it did take a break when those tracks weren't needed. Otherwise I'm very sure it would have ended up terrible if his main focus were rock tracks.
MasenkoHA wrote:Most here prefer/ have a bias toward the Japanese version and the rock heavy music is just another one of the changes American Dragon Ball Z to alter the show like Goku being turned into Superman.

On the other side the preference for the Kikuchi score is only a majority opinion here. Outside here the vast majority prefer Faulconer's score over anything. But that's a heavy combination of nostalgia and the only experience they have with Kikuchi's music is its badly placed use in Kai. I honestly despised the Kikuchi score when I first heard it in Kai around the Android saga on Nicktoons because the placement was horrid and I was used to the Yamamoto score by that point (though most American Z toonami era fans hated that score too) and didn't really appreciate the Kikuchi score until I started watching Z episodes on FunimationNow.
I actually enjoyed Yamamoto's score for Kai, and I was introduced to DBZ back around 1999-2000. Also started out with those VHS tapes that had the Ocean Dub back in the day... fun times! As I pointed out on another thread I will watch this any way.
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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:25 pm

SingleFringe&Sparks wrote: Most of the modern incarnations of the series don't have very interesting music in it anymore, and Super' former over synthesized, random J-Pop tones didn't fit at all for me, and it made it more noticeable that the series was bring treated as just another kid's shounen show, rather than a period piece. Most of the songs now don't even sound like they were made for the series, like the infamous early Goku theme, and title-card themes in Super. Come on. If I wanted an update on the original tones of the series, I'd personally want something more like what they give Naruto part 1's score where it was more of a mixture of the Rock & Eastern instrumentals for that martial arts feel.
I know there are a few tracks in Super that are awkward or out of place and they bug me. However to Super's defense those tracks were only used in generally unimportant scenes, non-battle scenes, and in some filler/unnecessary moments. Like whenever they show the Pilaf gang or show Goten and Trunks goofing around. Etc..

The ending themes in Super do need a lot of work, but I always skip the endings of the episodes. That's how I watch it. ;)
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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:30 pm

90sDBZ wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:I've always wondered this myself. Especially considering a lot of the music from the Budokai game series is essentially plagiarised rock music, yet still seems to be very praised around here. I think it's a case of people just disliking replacement scores in general, with the Budokai series music getting a free pass because the rock music was there to begin with.

I'd even argue there's a possibility that the Budokai music was made to appeal to both the Japanese and Western fanbases. It makes perfect sense considering the Budokai series was made as a response to the massive success of Z in the US. And both dub and sub fans alike seem to love it, Youtubers and all.
I love the jazzy stuff in Budokai and think the over-the-top rock stuff (double bass pedal, anyone?) mixed in with it is jarring and out of place and I'd rather it not be there.
Isn't the vast majority of the Budokai music rock based though? It seems to be mainly Budokai 2's story mode that used jazz, while the actual fight music in all 3 games was more or less exclusively rock.
The first Budokai's tracks are mostly rock with synthesized and orchestral music thrown in but Budokai 2 has mostly jazz tracks (thanks to Tower of Powers) and Budokai 3's tracks are a combination of both along with electronic funk.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:50 pm

Eternal Super Saiyan wrote:I know there are a few tracks in Super that are awkward or out of place and they bug me. However to Super's defense those tracks were only used in generally unimportant scenes, non-battle scenes, and in some filler/unnecessary moments. Like whenever they show the Pilaf gang or show Goten and Trunks goofing around. Etc..

The ending themes in Super do need a lot of work, but I always skip the endings of the episodes. That's how I watch it. ;)
Well considering the first arcs had a lot of filler in it, its hard to tell. Though the fact that they were played as the main tracks to the majority of the scenes so often force them outward as the tone of the overall arc. It could be that the annoying, squeakily songs got stuck in my head more often because they were annoying - but then they also overlap the good tunes in retrospect:

Good BGM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdlHvlB ... fZgc_nPres

Bad BGM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMfYub ... fZgc_nPres
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Ringworm128 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:50 am

Personally I think hard rock and metal fits the movies since they're really just fighting and action anyway. Movie 1 being the exception since it's arguably Kikuchi at his finest.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:30 pm

I hate having those stupid nu metal music in those movies because they make them feel like AMVs. Funimation was probably listing to the radio and was like "Hey kids these days like Disturbed and these rock bands on the radio. Let's add it for the soundtrack for our DBZ movies!". It was bad enough when the Digimon movie did with those awful songs that was very popular radio too. I'm surprise that DBE didn't have a music soundtrack with rock music from Linkin Park and other popular music bands.
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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Piccolo Daimaoh » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:14 pm

Disturbed made terrible music, no doubt. As did a lot of the other 'mainstream' bands FUNimation used to cash in on what was popular at the time. But I will say that some (not all) of the local bands they picked made music that was a lot less cringey, and if they had used them more the proceedings would have been much more tasteful.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:40 pm

Piccolo Daimaoh wrote:Disturbed made terrible music, no doubt. As did a lot of the other 'mainstream' bands FUNimation used to cash in on what was popular at the time. But I will say that some (not all) of the local bands they picked made music that was a lot less cringey, and if they had used them more the proceedings would have been much more tasteful.
DBZ isn't really meant to be a hardcore show, so I don't think using better rock bands would have been any better.
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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by dario03 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:29 pm

I think using instrumental versions of some of the songs would have worked better. By themselves I like a bunch of the songs they put in the movies and I think instrumental versions as bgm could have worked. But they had loud rock singing while the characters were talking which made it seem like they just threw it in without much thought (which I'm guessing is basically what happened). They could have left some in but a lot was just distracting. Movie 5 Cooler's Revenge was pretty bad in that aspect.


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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:20 pm

In my opinion they both fit fine, just in different ways.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:23 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
In my opinion they both fit fine, just in different ways.
The replacement score might be fine here if it weren't literally playing for almost 5 minutes straight. It's not even background music at that point, just an obnoxious assortment of noise.
Retired.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by dario03 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:30 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
In my opinion they both fit fine, just in different ways.
I agree. They both work despite being so different. And it fits my preferred rock style of no lyrics.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by KorgDTR2000 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:44 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
In my opinion they both fit fine, just in different ways.
Rock music can work, but the example I posted commits pretty much every sin possible IMO.

The rock score adds absolutely nothing to the scene. The original score is designed to reflect the emotions of the characters, which makes it a conduit for empathy. Throughout the conflict it's somber as the characters fight without hope. Then at the end when the heroes prevail it's celebratory. The rock score has no emotion. Instead it only reflects the events of the screen with total detachment. There's a big exploding thing going on so the music is loud, fast and aggressive. Instead of complementing the visuals by resonating with the emotional undercurrent it simply mirrors them. Loud visuals, loud music. The original score actually carries the scene, which is really nearly five minutes where almost nothing happens. The rock score is so flat that it just fades into the background. There's no melody.

It's poorly written and poorly integrated. It dramatically changes the tone of the scene (needlessly) and isn't even a good song.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:44 am

Sure not everything fits, but I think Rock music can infact I think any music can fit with DB if used well, for example the latest DBS ED the song on it's own a lot of folks weren't feeling it myself included but accompanied with the visuals it's become one of my favourite EDs.

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Re: Why is Rock music in DB so frowned upon here?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:40 pm

Rukawa11 wrote:
Although to be fair, 2001-2003 films such as The One, The Matrix Reloaded, Daredevil, and Queen of the Damned had likewise included the above bands along with P.O.D, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Evanescence...etc.
So did End of Days, Freddy vs. Jason and Dracula 2000. Nu Metal became huge in 2000 thanks to Linkin Park and Disturbed. In 2001, you could not hear Drowning Pool's "Bodies" not every 5 minutes. The song was even use in the Jason X trailer. Funimation was just want to cash in on whatever was popular on the Radio and with kids. Kids listen to those type of music when DBZ was still a thing on CN in 2001-2002.
VegettoEX wrote:
The quintessential example of this is probably the Street Fighter II movie with Korn and Alice in Chains and KMFDM when it came out here in 1995. My recollection of the last-gasp was the Tekken movie with Stabbing Westward and the Offspring in 1998.
You could argue that those music fit the tone of those two anime better compare to the music use in DBZ Movie 4 & 5 and Digimon: The Movie.
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