Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby VegettoEX » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:47 pm

Trickster wrote:How can someone prefer Bruce Faulconer's version? It doesn't capture any of the main aspects that makes a "DB BGM", which are the wind instruments (is this right?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfQ_QP-ptzY

Which part are you questioning? The wind instruments part? There's wind (DBZ movie 1 sax is the best) and there's brass (plenty o' horns to be had) and there's all sorts of percussion (gimme dat vibraslap).
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Rukawa11 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:15 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:Also, another thing the Japanese music does better is that it has insert songs with vocals for certain moments, such as when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 against Cell, which adds a little bit of variety to the soundtrack.

I actually wanted to start a new topic about insert songs but it I'll just ask this question here hoping to get some opinions.
Don't you think it's strange, given the 50+ vocal songs across the Hit Song Collection CD's, that we'd only hear three insert songs in DBZ ("Battle-colored Warriors," "Mind Power," and "Spirit vs. Spirit")? Even DB had more vocal insert songs.

DarkPrince_92 wrote:I thought Kikuchi's score was great, but it was highly repetitive, episode after episode. I felt like the Saiyan through Freeza arc had the same 8-10 recycled tracks throughout and got really dry after a while.

That's largely because bgm from the movies took way too long to debut in the TV series.

DBZAOTA482 wrote:but Kikuchi's fully orchestrated bliss truly captures the essence of Dragon Ball even though he gets kinda lazy in terms of composing new tracks for Z (especially during the Cell Saga).

What ails and frustrates me to this very day is that the first Broly movie was already out before the Cell Games started, and since (imo) Movie 8 has one of the best Kikuchi pieces in the series, it's a darn shame none of them appeared except the one used when Gohan finishes off Cell.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby VegettoEX » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:58 pm

Rukawa11 wrote:Don't you think it's strange, given the 50+ vocal songs across the Hit Song Collection CD's, that we'd only hear three insert songs in DBZ ("Battle-colored Warriors," "Mind Power," and "Spirit vs. Spirit")? Even DB had more vocal insert songs.

Well, we sorta had "Fly High", and then "Battle Point Unlimited" (which is obviously non-vocal), and also a movie 13 ED inclusion.

We also sorta kinda make up for it with DBZ movies 1, 2, and 4...?!?
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Trickster » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:21 pm

VegettoEX wrote:Which part are you questioning? The wind instruments part? There's wind (DBZ movie 1 sax is the best) and there's brass (plenty o' horns to be had) and there's all sorts of percussion (gimme dat vibraslap).
[/quote]
Yeah, the wind instruments. I didn't know how to say that, so I used Google Translator.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Captain-Sora » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:32 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Definitely Shunsuke Kikuchi. Don't get me wrong, Bruce Faulconer's low-budget synthesized music is fine on it's own (with some really memorial tracks) but Kikuchi's fully orchestrated bliss truly captures the essence of Dragon Ball even though he gets kinda lazy in terms of composing new tracks for Z (especially during the Cell Saga).


He doesn't get lazy with the amount of compositions. It's Toei cutting back on costs and primarily relying on reusing cues from his various movie scores instead of having him compose new tracks regularly for the show.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Rukawa11 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:12 am

Captain-Sora wrote:He doesn't get lazy with the amount of compositions. It's Toei cutting back on costs and primarily relying on reusing cues from his various movie scores instead of having him compose new tracks regularly for the show.

Using music from movie scores is perfectly normal. Detective Conan does that too. The problem with DBZ is that the songs took too damn long to appear in the series. Movie 8's soundtrack would've really invigorated the Cell Games :cry:

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Valerius Dover » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:48 pm

Rukawa11 wrote:
Captain-Sora wrote:He doesn't get lazy with the amount of compositions. It's Toei cutting back on costs and primarily relying on reusing cues from his various movie scores instead of having him compose new tracks regularly for the show.

Using music from movie scores is perfectly normal. Detective Conan does that too. The problem with DBZ is that the songs took too damn long to appear in the series. Movie 8's soundtrack would've really invigorated the Cell Games :cry:


On that note, Kai actually remedies that. :thumbup:
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Bajosexto » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:10 pm

Liquir wrote:Which do you prefer and which do you advise me to watch for the Rest of the Series ?

I know I'm a bit late. But as mush as I wanted to reply in this thread, I didn't know what to say. I thought about giving my honest opinion about the Faulconer score but this thread isn't really about that. I also thought about recommending Kikuchi but that isn't truly my honest recommendation. So To answer your questions, I prefer Kikuchi. I grew up listening to his score over and over until I was able to recognize almost any piece of music from Dragon Ball z just by hearing it. I love that score. And like VeggettoEX, I recommend the original Japanese version which has the Kikuchi score. But honestly, as much advice I could give you, it really doesn't matter. Ultimately, you decide which version to watch. Not me, anyone else. It doesn't matter if I love Kikuchi or if someone else loves Faulconer. We're all different. Who knows, maybe you'll end up loving the Japanese music or maybe you'll end up hating it. I guess what I'm trying to say is try out both scores and see which one you like best. Taking good advice(like the ones given on this thread) is actually a good idea, but don't let others dictate how you should or shouldn't enjoy one of your favorite series.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:38 pm

Status quo here would be to recommend the Japanese score (which is *the* score). Overall the English dub for DBZ is not notable outside of historical context. In fact I believe most fans of dubs in general, would say it is exceptionally bad. The replacement music for DB was all intended to provide a much more "hardcore" sound than the show was actually meant to be. It has a very "nu-metal" aka loud distortion & droning keyboards, sound, as others have pointed out. If you want to watch the show & get reasonably close to the main experience...I wish there were a dub I could recommend honestly. As Mr. VegettoEX did mention, it is indeed a crapshoot.

With that being said, however, there is in fact the matter of "watching what you grew up with", & while this site is all about "authoritative Dragon Ball resources" as stated...if Bruce Faulconer & manly-voice Goku are that nostalgic & comforting to you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with watching that show too. Just keep in mind that is a pretty loose adaptation of the show & does not really reflect Dragon Ball in general. The animation is mostly the same, but it's more comparable to something like Robotech which was a cut-up/edited/music changed version of Macross, than it is to a faithful (& very well-performed) dub like Naruto was.

Also it's important not to skip the first half of the series (& why would one do that, really?) as it introduces so many of the characters & it's really like watching Shippuden without Naruto, best way I can put it.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby 8000 Saiyan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:08 pm

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:Status quo here would be to recommend the Japanese score (which is *the* score). Overall the English dub for DBZ is not notable outside of historical context. In fact I believe most fans of dubs in general, would say it is exceptionally bad. The replacement music for DB was all intended to provide a much more "hardcore" sound than the show was actually meant to be. It has a very "nu-metal" aka loud distortion & droning keyboards, sound, as others have pointed out. If you want to watch the show & get reasonably close to the main experience...I wish there were a dub I could recommend honestly. As Mr. VegettoEX did mention, it is indeed a crapshoot.

With that being said, however, there is in fact the matter of "watching what you grew up with", & while this site is all about "authoritative Dragon Ball resources" as stated...if Bruce Faulconer & manly-voice Goku are that nostalgic & comforting to you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with watching that show too. Just keep in mind that is a pretty loose adaptation of the show & does not really reflect Dragon Ball in general. The animation is mostly the same, but it's more comparable to something like Robotech which was a cut-up/edited/music changed version of Macross, than it is to a faithful (& very well-performed) dub like Naruto was.

Also it's important not to skip the first half of the series (& why would one do that, really?) as it introduces so many of the characters & it's really like watching Shippuden without Naruto, best way I can put it.

Eh, I find the Naruto dub okay. Not good, not bad. It's nothing compared to the Japanese version. Oh, and believe it or not (you probably won't), there are fans of English anime dubs that think the DBZ dub is good.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Bajosexto » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:25 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:Status quo here would be to recommend the Japanese score (which is *the* score). Overall the English dub for DBZ is not notable outside of historical context. In fact I believe most fans of dubs in general, would say it is exceptionally bad. The replacement music for DB was all intended to provide a much more "hardcore" sound than the show was actually meant to be. It has a very "nu-metal" aka loud distortion & droning keyboards, sound, as others have pointed out. If you want to watch the show & get reasonably close to the main experience...I wish there were a dub I could recommend honestly. As Mr. VegettoEX did mention, it is indeed a crapshoot.

With that being said, however, there is in fact the matter of "watching what you grew up with", & while this site is all about "authoritative Dragon Ball resources" as stated...if Bruce Faulconer & manly-voice Goku are that nostalgic & comforting to you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with watching that show too. Just keep in mind that is a pretty loose adaptation of the show & does not really reflect Dragon Ball in general. The animation is mostly the same, but it's more comparable to something like Robotech which was a cut-up/edited/music changed version of Macross, than it is to a faithful (& very well-performed) dub like Naruto was.

Also it's important not to skip the first half of the series (& why would one do that, really?) as it introduces so many of the characters & it's really like watching Shippuden without Naruto, best way I can put it.

Eh, I find the Naruto dub okay. Not good, not bad. It's nothing compared to the Japanese version. Oh, and believe it or not (you probably won't), there are fans of English anime dubs that think the DBZ dub is good.

I don't understand how someone legitimately can think that the FUNi in-house dub of Z is good. Yet alone great. The simple fact that the script isn't faithful and that the music was replaced takes away any possibility of it being a good dub. Even if it did have good voice acting, this is were the subjectivity comes in, FUNi made way to many unnecessary changes to the point where you could say that they're two different shows. We might have different ideas when it come to script accuracy (I prefer dubs to be as faithful as possible but I've seen other fans here being okay with the small liberties FUNi has taken with Super, Blu-ray joke, Yamaha joke etc.) but we can all agree that a dub should be a faithful adaptation of an existing show. Not a censored, badly acted, inaccurate reimaging of a show.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby 8000 Saiyan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:30 pm

Bajosexto wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:Status quo here would be to recommend the Japanese score (which is *the* score). Overall the English dub for DBZ is not notable outside of historical context. In fact I believe most fans of dubs in general, would say it is exceptionally bad. The replacement music for DB was all intended to provide a much more "hardcore" sound than the show was actually meant to be. It has a very "nu-metal" aka loud distortion & droning keyboards, sound, as others have pointed out. If you want to watch the show & get reasonably close to the main experience...I wish there were a dub I could recommend honestly. As Mr. VegettoEX did mention, it is indeed a crapshoot.

With that being said, however, there is in fact the matter of "watching what you grew up with", & while this site is all about "authoritative Dragon Ball resources" as stated...if Bruce Faulconer & manly-voice Goku are that nostalgic & comforting to you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with watching that show too. Just keep in mind that is a pretty loose adaptation of the show & does not really reflect Dragon Ball in general. The animation is mostly the same, but it's more comparable to something like Robotech which was a cut-up/edited/music changed version of Macross, than it is to a faithful (& very well-performed) dub like Naruto was.

Also it's important not to skip the first half of the series (& why would one do that, really?) as it introduces so many of the characters & it's really like watching Shippuden without Naruto, best way I can put it.

Eh, I find the Naruto dub okay. Not good, not bad. It's nothing compared to the Japanese version. Oh, and believe it or not (you probably won't), there are fans of English anime dubs that think the DBZ dub is good.

I don't understand how someone legitimately can think that the FUNi in-house dub of Z is good. Yet alone great. The simple fact that the script isn't faithful and that the music was replaced takes away any possibility of it being a good dub. Even if it did have good voice acting, this is were the subjectivity comes in, FUNi made way to many unnecessary changes to the point where you could say that they're two different shows. We might have different ideas when it come to script accuracy (I prefer dubs to be as faithful as possible but I've seen other fans here being okay with the small liberties FUNi has taken with Super, Blu-ray joke, Yamaha joke etc.) but we can all agree that a dub should be a faithful adaptation of an existing show. Not a censored, badly acted, inaccurate reimaging of a show.

It's liked because of nostalgia and nothing more.
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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Bajosexto » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:47 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Bajosexto wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:Eh, I find the Naruto dub okay. Not good, not bad. It's nothing compared to the Japanese version. Oh, and believe it or not (you probably won't), there are fans of English anime dubs that think the DBZ dub is good.

I don't understand how someone legitimately can think that the FUNi in-house dub of Z is good. Yet alone great. The simple fact that the script isn't faithful and that the music was replaced takes away any possibility of it being a good dub. Even if it did have good voice acting, this is were the subjectivity comes in, FUNi made way to many unnecessary changes to the point where you could say that they're two different shows. We might have different ideas when it come to script accuracy (I prefer dubs to be as faithful as possible but I've seen other fans here being okay with the small liberties FUNi has taken with Super, Blu-ray joke, Yamaha joke etc.) but we can all agree that a dub should be a faithful adaptation of an existing show. Not a censored, badly acted, inaccurate reimaging of a show.

I think it's liked because of nostalgia.

It's probably like for other reasons too. There's nothing wrong with liking the FUNi dub of z but it really isn't a good dub.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Hyena_Yamcha » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:36 pm

i like Bruce Faulconer's music , i think he's a talented musician but his music dosen't suit DBZ in my opinion .

so shunsuke kikuchi is my pick .

i think that Tokunaga is the only composer who's almost as good as kikuchi
My English is poor .

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Kojiro Sasaki » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:33 am

I am a purist, so I always advocate for getting familiar with stuff in its first, original version. Chronology is also VERY important.

Argumentation goes like this: It's Japanese show. It was written in Japan by Japanese person, who was born and raised in Japan. It's partially based on Japanese culture, legends, stereotypes etc., etc., etc. Shunsuke Kikuchi is also Japanese and he actually worked with the original production staff. He read the original manga (not yet fully confirmed info), he was guided by the people who wrote the show, he worked on the show during its original production. He knew the original author's style, because he worked on his shows before (Dr. Slump). I wouldn't be very surprised if somebody would tell me that he discussed things with Akira Toriyama himself. I think that the show being Japanese and the music being Japanese is something that's very important here.

I think that replacing the original score, which sounding represents the “original story criteria” stated above, with...
AnzuMazaki wrote:ACTION 80S SPACE WRESTLERZ!! EXTREME ANIME ALIENZ WWE WRESTLING STYLE!!

...western, partially synthezied, partially rock, modern sounding electronic score makes completely no sense, no matter how good the new music would be on its own. The idea itself is plain wrong to me.

What would you say if some country would import Star Wars and replaced the original score with the one mentioned above?

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby simtek34 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:24 pm

YUUU MUSSHHT WACCCHHHH FALKNR SKIR. SCREW KIKUKI. THE ONLY WAY TO WACH DBZ REMASTERED IS WITN SUPER BADASS DUCKS AND CELLPHONE RINGTOME MUZIK


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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Kokonoe » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:13 am

I'd personally go for Bruce's over Kikuchi's and I have several reasons why. Although Kikuchi's OST has a classic 80's feel to it with music that's orchestral, I feel at times the music actually gets repetitive / dry and there is a lack of energy and excitement across the OST overall. People will like it for it's subtlety, but I feel it's too subtle at times and doesn't give me enough much diversity in sound as Bruce's, despite the fact that it's synthesized music. Synthesized music is not inferior in my eyes, I prefer the Sega Genesis sound chip heavily over the Super Nintendo's despite the synth. It's just simply a different style of music to me.

These are some of my favorites, and why I love Faulconer's OST so much.

SSJ Transformation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw9kGe0cQu0

The sound is subtle and peaceful, but at the same time progressive while building up slowly, conveying Goku's emotions and power slowly building up after his last straw was plucked after Krillin's death. It feels as if the music is telling it's the story alongside the visuals and gives me goosebumps as Goku becomes Super Saiyan.

Hell's Bells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psm3PS_J-o0

I get a strong sense of nobility with this track, which perfectly goes alongside Vegeta being the prince of the Saiyan race. The guitar riffs get me fired up and tend to fit well with Vegeta's cocky personality. The bells are done so well that I cannot even imagine the song without them and it's nice to see cathedral bells used to shake up the OST and give something unique.

Trunk's Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p11qzIFLh_s

This song gives off several emotions. On one end, the sound represents the hardships Trunks has gone through from the Android's and Gohan dying, and on the other, represents the happiness Trunks feels when he's "done" and begins looking towards the future. It honestly is quite a beautiful and melodic song and makes me really nostalgic to my favorite arc in Dragon Ball.

Episodic Trunks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5k4wbXLAXY

By far in the top 10 of the Faulconer OST. It's so progressive, and hits everything "Trunk's Story" does in terms of emotion and melody, but I feel hits it even further. Just as I said with Trunk's Story, this song is very beautiful and is always a charm to listen to with it's peacefulness, especially when winding down and wanting to relax.

Cell Returns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iANP6tPfXO0

Such an ominous sound. This is the most intense comeback theme of a villain I've heard before. I love this because when mixed with the actual scene, it's stellar.

Final Notes

There are a lot more tracks I could've listed, but I wanted to share those as they deserve credit in my eyes and spoke to me on a significant level as a child and still do to this day. What I love about Faulconer's OST is that it has all types of sounds and is consistently progressive, consistently mixing up how the song sounds and keeps things fresh. I don't really get that from the other OST's out there for Dragon Ball. I will note, I don't think the other OST's are bad at all, I just prefer Faulconer's the most. There isn't a "bad OST" to me.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby cRookie_Monster » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:05 pm

Kokonoe wrote:I'd personally go for Bruce's over Kikuchi's and I have several reasons why. Although Kikuchi's OST has a classic 80's feel to it with music that's orchestral, I feel at times the music actually gets repetitive / dry and there is a lack of energy and excitement across the OST overall. People will like it for it's subtlety, but I feel it's too subtle at times and doesn't give me enough much diversity in sound as Bruce's, despite the fact that it's synthesized music. Synthesized music is not inferior in my eyes, I prefer the Sega Genesis sound chip heavily over the Super Nintendo's despite the synth. It's just simply a different style of music to me.

These are some of my favorites, and why I love Faulconer's OST so much.

SSJ Transformation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw9kGe0cQu0

The sound is subtle and peaceful, but at the same time progressive while building up slowly, conveying Goku's emotions and power slowly building up after his last straw was plucked after Krillin's death. It feels as if the music is telling it's the story alongside the visuals and gives me goosebumps as Goku becomes Super Saiyan.

Hell's Bells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psm3PS_J-o0

I get a strong sense of nobility with this track, which perfectly goes alongside Vegeta being the prince of the Saiyan race. The guitar riffs get me fired up and tend to fit well with Vegeta's cocky personality. The bells are done so well that I cannot even imagine the song without them and it's nice to see cathedral bells used to shake up the OST and give something unique.

Trunk's Story
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p11qzIFLh_s

This song gives off several emotions. On one end, the sound represents the hardships Trunks has gone through from the Android's and Gohan dying, and on the other, represents the happiness Trunks feels when he's "done" and begins looking towards the future. It honestly is quite a beautiful and melodic song and makes me really nostalgic to my favorite arc in Dragon Ball.

Episodic Trunks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5k4wbXLAXY

By far in the top 10 of the Faulconer OST. It's so progressive, and hits everything "Trunk's Story" does in terms of emotion and melody, but I feel hits it even further. Just as I said with Trunk's Story, this song is very beautiful and is always a charm to listen to with it's peacefulness, especially when winding down and wanting to relax.

Cell Returns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iANP6tPfXO0

Such an ominous sound. This is the most intense comeback theme of a villain I've heard before. I love this because when mixed with the actual scene, it's stellar.

Final Notes

There are a lot more tracks I could've listed, but I wanted to share those as they deserve credit in my eyes and spoke to me on a significant level as a child and still do to this day. What I love about Faulconer's OST is that it has all types of sounds and is consistently progressive, consistently mixing up how the song sounds and keeps things fresh. I don't really get that from the other OST's out there for Dragon Ball. I will note, I don't think the other OST's are bad at all, I just prefer Faulconer's the most. There isn't a "bad OST" to me.


Thanks! I had a hand in 3 of the 5 you called out, so I wanted to tell you that it's really appreciated.

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Kokonoe » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:11 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:Thanks! I had a hand in 3 of the 5 you called out, so I wanted to tell you that it's really appreciated.

:shock: How awesome it is to hear from someone who worked on my favorite anime OST of all time. :D I'm glad you enjoyed my impressions, and all I can say is...thank you for your work on this series, it truly made an impact on my childhood.

I take it you worked on the Trunks themes, what is the third one?

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Re: Bruce Faulconer or Shunsuke Kikuchi ?

Postby Alruneia » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:22 am

cRookie_Monster wrote:Thanks! I had a hand in 3 of the 5 you called out, so I wanted to tell you that it's really appreciated.

Scott Morgan, is that you!? :o I didn't know we had people of that calibre browsing these forums. That's awesome. :D
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