Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

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Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:07 pm

For me, the music from Faulconer Productions is way more complex, intricate and detailed than the music of Yamamoto. While many fans of DBZ have the popular belief that all of the scores from Faulconer Productions are solely techno and rock, there are many scores that use more musical instrumental pieces than that.
For example:
Most of the scores from Faulconer Productions that were made for the Buu Saga utilize mostly orchestral instruments.
Such scores are:
The "Evil Majin Theme: https://youtu.be/yIEhuNDNJ7k
The "Majin Theme: https://youtu.be/P6H-EQK7C1Y
The "Bobidi Casts Spell" Score: https://youtu.be/JH7e6RqaWP0
The "Majin Vegeta" Score: https://youtu.be/EnKx3Tr-fdE
"Buu's Theme": https://youtu.be/EnKx3Tr-fdE
The "Buu Throws Worm" Score: https://youtu.be/S8X3mKtfhNc
And my personal favorite one: The "Piccolo and Bobidi" Score: https://youtu.be/SjIXUsr84sY
There are other scores from Faulconer Productions which I honestly believe are great for captivating the moments of certain scenes.
Such scores are:
The "Planet Namek Destruction" Score: https://youtu.be/b70svR30Wds
The "Energy Disk" Score: https://youtu.be/2dJAgPS8Vuc
The "400G's" Score: https://youtu.be/2g2ukqPdd9M
The "Frieza Begs" Score: https://youtu.be/CiMOPL6HjIE
The "Cell Theme": https://youtu.be/bsQL7fEaqDA
The "Cell Transforms" Theme: https://youtu.be/nHlkxbKv1JE
The "Cell Returns Theme": https://youtu.be/LC-tkbFXQhs
The "Goku and Kai Standoff": https://youtu.be/N_9I0bkbW8Y
The "Perfect Cell Runs: Theme: https://youtu.be/J0-EIU8YObE
The "Full Power" Score: https://youtu.be/UwpkvBo6P2A
The "Gohan Angers 2: Score: https://youtu.be/kIWktbHt3vo
And my personal favorite out of this list: The "Cell Junior's Theme": https://youtu.be/J2x1TEeyMGE

In my humblest opinion, Faulconer Productions have produced a number of great scores, so why do people get irritated from these scores? How Funimation utilizes them. These scores are great in their own right, at least in my opinion, but the manner in which they are executed into the episodes of Dragon Ball Z is at many times, redundant and subpar.

For the Yamamoto scores, while there are, in my opinion, a number of great scores that have been produced by this composers, I personally believe that there are moments when I hear familiar score get used too often, and other moments when it feels like his scores are often underutilized in ways they could be.

In the end, it all comes down to how the scores are utilized. You may vote for Yamamoto, and I may vote for Faulconer. It is all a matter of subjectivity. I personally believe the Funimation Dub has the edge when it comes to actually utilizing their scores, but I believe the Kai Dub has the advantage on when they are utilized most of the time.

When it comes to sound quality, the Kai Dub in terms of clarity, since this more of an objective concept, objectively, the Kai Dub has the advantage.

In terms of quality of the character dialogue, which is somewhat subjective and objective, in my opinion, both versions are not devoid of cheesy dialogue. The Kai dialogue is simply less condensed with cheesy lines.

In terms of the adequacy of certain voice actors for certain characters, there are instances where the Funimation Dub has the edge and moments when the Kai Dub has the edge.
The voice actors for Goku, Chi Chi, Kaio-Sama, Vegeta, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, Dende, Mr. Satan, and others have not changed in the Kai dub, but have MUCH better voice quality and are much more tolerable to listen to. Gohan's voice in Kai as a kid feels like an adequate voice for him, but at the end of the Cell Saga is when his voice sounds too young for my liking, and in the Funimation Dub, it's the opposite. There is the famous, and personal favorite, Chris Ayres who is the of Freeza, who subjectively and in a way, is an objectively better voice actor for Freeza because of how well he portrays Freeza properly, and has a MUCH better voice than Linda Young, who, to be brutally honest, sounds like a lady with excessive smoking problems. I personally find both R Bruce Elliott and Dale Kelly to be adequate Captain Ginyu voices (and for to me, they sound nearly identical). For Jeice, his distinct Australian Accent from the Funimation Dub is sometimes entertaining and other times extremely cringe-worthy and ridiculous, but in the Kai Dub, personally, it's just plain ear cancer to me. Burter's voice in the Funimation Dub and Kai is just bad all the way. For Android 18, Meredith McCoy from the Funimation Dub is a FAR more adequate voice for Android 18 than the jarringly high pitched Colleen Clinkenbeard in the Kai Dub, at least, to me. Cell, and Buu have the same voice actors, but in some instances, they execute better performances in the Funimation Dub, and others in the Kai Dub.

Overall, in terms of the adequacy of voice actors for certain characters, Kai wins and looses some, and Funimation wins and looses some.

The last topic to talk about is the quality of the display as well as animation for Kai and Funimation. For the Funimation Dub, the display shows more vibrant colors while for Kai, there is either WAY too much contrast to a point where it somewhat fades out the outlining and background art or there is that cancerously jarring green tint. For Kai, there is somewhat nicer animation but not much really has changed in that category.

Overall, I don't view one as purely better than another, but instead, I view them as having advantages and disadvantages. Neither is perfect in my opinion, and neither is pure cancer. I just like to look at the details and compare and contrast them.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby Dbzfan94 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:50 pm

Brilliant post. This is how I feel exactly.
A big criticism of the Faulconer score was that it lacks the lemotifs that the Kikuchi score had. When that couldnt be more wrong. All the Buu themes are basically the same melody that are arranged differently and makes them unique.

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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:03 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:Brilliant post. This is how I feel exactly.
A big criticism of the Faulconer score was that it lacks the lemotifs that the Kikuchi score had. When that couldnt be more wrong. All the Buu themes are basically the same melody that are arranged differently and makes them unique.

Thank you for your response! And you are definitely right! The Buu themes were all done in unique and interesting ways, and a lot of them were orchestral too! That's one thing that people don't seem to acknowledge about the Faulconer themes. In fact, that's one of the common talking points against the Faulconer scores: that they aren't orchestral. But really, a lot of his scores are orchestral or are a unique mix of orchestra and rock/synthesis!
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby coola » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:56 pm

Personally, i like Z Faulconer tracks more than Kai Yamamoto, main problem was placement, there was almost never quiet moment in Z Dub.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:48 pm

coola wrote:Personally, i like Z Faulconer tracks more than Kai Yamamoto, main problem was placement, there was almost never quiet moment in Z Dub.

I agree. The tracks were pretty great, but the subpar execution had made them somewhat repetitive or redundant. If they were well executed into the show (i.e. not reusing the same tracks over again or not just splicing a bunch of tracks together) then I feel like they would offer an amazing experience for Dragonball Z viewers!
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Feel free to discuss this topic too! I also want more people to see and think about this topic as well!
Last edited by AdventurousAugustus on Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:17 pm

There are probably more amazing Faulconer scores out there. I could show more!
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:11 pm

There are even more unique Faulconer scores. Some utilize a combination of rock, choir, synthesis and orchestral instruments, and are perfect for capturing the awesomeness, or stakes of any moment. Themes such as:
The "Kame's Tale" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MswyZ5ugaU
The "16 Rips Off Cells Tail" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cajfmtFg9ps
The "Cell Returns" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC-tkbFXQhs
The "Frieza VS. Spirit Bomb 2" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGnnraWRnIg
The "Vegeta - Super Saiyan" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_mwY4hYq0Q
The "Super Namek" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEJ176c06no&index=380
The "Nail's Gift" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvm2ZGGiyq0
The "Pikkon's Theme: score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCWqAyh9IHw
The "Doubler's Prelude" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEkPOaVwGdI&index=448
The "Piccolo Angry" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGLxnDWqf0
The "Androids Steal Truck" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbGLxnDWqf0
The "Groovy Discotech" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViTHXHOYuM
The "Cell At Carnival" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLGPsElNLYo
The "Cell Transforms" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHlkxbKv1JE
The "King Kai Dies" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKsBqQSVnsg
The "Imperfect Cell Theme" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7-A1Aj1PjU&index=396
The "Dead Zone" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-gOkp7YJRw&index=400
The "Frieza's Death" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgxfWAQ2XI&index=403
The "Frieza's Base" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIKcCd6hDr0&index=414
The "Yamcha Meets Droids" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvemmT-mxp0
This score is just specifically acoustic guitar with violin and choir, which is beautiful to listen to. This is the "Ox King Consoles" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmXgPEkfUps
This score sounds quite magical when you listen to it. This is the "Underwater" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5_om2ngrNI
This one is just INCREDIBLY BADASS and manages to capture the greatness of Ultimate Gohan. This is the "Gohan Powers Up" score: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boD8YwSOp70
And there are MANY more great Faulconer scores too!
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:17 pm

Well, that's all I have to say about this topic now. Feel free to comment about how you feel or what you think about it.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby 90sDBZ » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:33 pm

I'll just echo what you said about Faulconer Productions making some great music which more often than not did wonders for the show, and I'll also agree that it was hindered by the fact that Funimation forced them to have zero silent moments.

Kai has the better voice acting, although I still prefer Stephanie Nadolny's Gohan voice to Colleen's. The Yamamoto score is pretty solid but still isn't as memorable as Faulconer. Both are much better than replacement Kikuchi though.

Ultimately I like the Z dub more in no small part due to the Faulconer Productions score. And I prefer some of the altered dialogue too like during the Kaioken x20 scene.

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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:25 pm

90sDBZ wrote:I'll just echo what you said about Faulconer Productions making some great music which more often than not did wonders for the show, and I'll also agree that it was hindered by the fact that Funimation forced them to have zero silent moments.

Kai has the better voice acting, although I still prefer Stephanie Nadolny's Gohan voice to Colleen's. The Yamamoto score is pretty solid but still isn't as memorable as Faulconer. Both are much better than replacement Kikuchi though.

Ultimately I like the Z dub more in no small part due to the Faulconer Productions score. And I prefer some of the altered dialogue too like during the Kaioken x20 scene.


I agree as well with your claims, and I do agree that it was hindered by Funimation's decision for zero silence.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby MasenkoHA » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:12 pm

With the exception of Ginyu transforms and Super Buu's theme the Falcouner score ranged anywhere from sounding like a running washing machine and a bunch of cell phones on vibrate going off. The Yamamoto score had way more emotion, variety, and was just a lot more epic.

The Falcouner score never had anything as emotionally charged and triumphant as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTi3s44Ylv4



Or compare Vegeta's death in the Z dub :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCD4PDz4JNQ&t=1s

to his death in the Kai dub:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfVkxbMNj1U


Now, I'll grant, you Kai HUGELY benefits from better dialog and superior voice acting (poor Mr.Schemmel is just embarrassing in that scene in Z) but the music also helps. The piece accompanying Vegeta talking about how Freeza destroyed their planet and begging Goku to kill him really captures the sorrow and tragedy. The Falcouner score doesn't sound like anything. And I know Kai basically applied that piece to anything remotely sad from Goku dying to the grand elder dying but it works.


Of course music is incredibly subjective so we're all free to agree or disagree :)

As far as voice acting goes, McCoy was a much better Android 18 than Clinkenberg. Everyone else I either thought the Kai replacement was better or they were about equal.

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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby Diccolo-420 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:45 pm

This is part of why I wanted to score faulconer into Kai, because of the wide variety of themes conveying different moods and themes. I disagree in that the kai lines are cheezy, if anything it's the other way around. Kai toned down the over the top lines so that it seemed more natural. Too often in the original dub they were either exchanging one liners like in some improv battle or other times they were speaking like they were in a shakespearean play. Keeping it simpler is one of kai's greatest assets.

I honestly wish they continued to release more tracks officially. Sure we can rip them now, but there are some which are still unrippable or can only be ripped in a lower quality and having official releases would make a huge difference, not to mention there is a slight difference in sound between the blu ray rips and the official releases.

MasenkoHA wrote:-snip-


I'll agree with you on vegeta's death, when rescoring it I found a hard time finding tracks that would match yamamoto there. However, Yamamoto and variety do not go well together. They repeated the same tracks a lot, particularly in the frieza saga. The music htey used for goku going SSJ was the same action music they used for nearly every episode prior, and every inspiring moment was with the same inspiring track.

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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby Danfun64 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm

Do you think Kikuchi Kai has more variety than Yamamoto, or less? One things for sure, hearing Boo saga music in the Cell saga, or Cell saga music in the Saiyan saga, still feels wrong. So you have the choice of morally wrong in the case of Yamamoto, or chronologically wrong in the case of Kikuchi. *sigh*

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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sat May 05, 2018 12:01 am

Diccolo-420 wrote:This is part of why I wanted to score faulconer into Kai, because of the wide variety of themes conveying different moods and themes. I disagree in that the kai lines are cheezy, if anything it's the other way around. Kai toned down the over the top lines so that it seemed more natural. Too often in the original dub they were either exchanging one liners like in some improv battle or other times they were speaking like they were in a shakespearean play. Keeping it simpler is one of kai's greatest assets.

I honestly wish they continued to release more tracks officially. Sure we can rip them now, but there are some which are still unrippable or can only be ripped in a lower quality and having official releases would make a huge difference, not to mention there is a slight difference in sound between the blu ray rips and the official releases.

MasenkoHA wrote:-snip-


I'll agree with you on vegeta's death, when rescoring it I found a hard time finding tracks that would match yamamoto there. However, Yamamoto and variety do not go well together. They repeated the same tracks a lot, particularly in the frieza saga. The music htey used for goku going SSJ was the same action music they used for nearly every episode prior, and every inspiring moment was with the same inspiring track.


I agree with you completely!
All of the Faulconer Productions tracks that have been made by Julius Dobos, Mike Smith, Scott Morgan, and Bruce Faulconer overall have a lot of diversity in each and every individual track, released or unreleased.
With the amount of musical diversity, there is with all of the Faulconer Scores, I feel like the DBZ Kai Dub could have used some of them along with the improved voice acting to enhance the experience even more. Plus, they don't have to use the same method as the DBZ Dub where they continuously played music or repeated similar scores repeatedly. They could have improved upon the placement of the Faulconer Scores to enhance the experience of the DBZ Kai dub quite a lot.
Also, I would have loved if Faulconer Productions released more of the scores they made, because, despite how many scores they have officially released, there are still a multitude of unreleased tracks that people would love to listen to, some of which aren't even easy to rip out. It would be great if they continued to release more Faulconer scores to the public.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby ulisa » Sun May 06, 2018 1:26 am

One theme of Falcouner's that I truly miss in both the Kai version and the Z version with the original Japanese score is the "Time Chamber" theme. I really adore that composition and it really seems to give those scenes "other worldly/mystical" feel. Especially when Goku and Gohan are training, I love the overall mood it creates. While I tend to keep the original Japanese score on when I watch Z, I find myself always switching back during those scenes.

If I had to claim another favorite, I love the music that is used when Gohan launches his final blast against Cell. I don't know what it is but the Japanese score just doesn't do anything for me during that scene.

I tend to agree with your overall assessment--there's things about Kai that I like, there's things about the original dub I like. I can switch back and forth between the two and enjoy them for different reasons. I tend to stick with the Z more but that more has to do with I appreciate and prefer the scenes of filler that Kai cuts out. I just feel they add more depth to the series and something is lost when they're gone, particularly in the Saiyan saga.
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby AdventurousAugustus » Sun May 27, 2018 1:39 pm

ulisa wrote:One theme of Falcouner's that I truly miss in both the Kai version and the Z version with the original Japanese score is the "Time Chamber" theme. I really adore that composition and it really seems to give those scenes "other worldly/mystical" feel. Especially when Goku and Gohan are training, I love the overall mood it creates. While I tend to keep the original Japanese score on when I watch Z, I find myself always switching back during those scenes.

If I had to claim another favorite, I love the music that is used when Gohan launches his final blast against Cell. I don't know what it is but the Japanese score just doesn't do anything for me during that scene.

I tend to agree with your overall assessment--there's things about Kai that I like, there's things about the original dub I like. I can switch back and forth between the two and enjoy them for different reasons. I tend to stick with the Z more but that more has to do with I appreciate and prefer the scenes of filler that Kai cuts out. I just feel they add more depth to the series and something is lost when they're gone, particularly in the Saiyan saga.

You said it best! I agree completely!
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Re: Dragonball Z Kai Dub vs Dragonball Z Dub: The Final Verdict (I hope)

Postby Fionordequester » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:10 pm

Diccolo-420 wrote:I'll agree with you on vegeta's death, when rescoring it I found a hard time finding tracks that would match yamamoto there. However, Yamamoto and variety do not go well together. They repeated the same tracks a lot, particularly in the frieza saga. The music htey used for goku going SSJ was the same action music they used for nearly every episode prior, and every inspiring moment was with the same inspiring track.


Alright, to be fair...Toei DID go back and fix that, indirectly. Watch the next episode, and listen to the recap for the previous episode. It's by far the longest of the Kai recaps. Why? Because they literally dedicate a full minute to redoing the entire SSJ transformation; but with this music playing instead.

A Tough Struggle

It fit much better...and it's also kind of hilarious the way this recap is so much longer than all the others. It was as though the outrage in Japan (and I'm sure there was outrage) was so great, that Toei was actually compelled to redo the scene; even if it was just in the recap :lol: !
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