Episode #0212 (14 March 2010)

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Umm we watch the Orange Boxes because that's what I have, in English dub, with original on Toonami music, and NO we do not have people hootin' and hollerin' about what we watch it in because we love DBZ. If a person doesn't want to be in the club because I, as the President, chooses how we watch it then they can just F%$& Right Off. I don't care ^_^. They are missing out on a great, fun club that talks about something they are interested in. I think it just means one less a$$hole in the group :

While I take issue with the wording of this response, I do agree with it in essence. I don't believe that every single member of her club prefers the dub, but I do however believe that the majority does. And as the saying goes, "majority rules". Why should she have to cater for the few members that want to watch a different version of something, at the expense of everyone else? And, like she said, if any one her members have a problem with that, they can just leave and start up their own club about original version. I don't see what the issue is here. It would be a different story if she was forcing this preference on the other club members, but I don't think this is the case since the dub is more popular than the original version. If I lived near her, I definately would want to be part of her club, despite the fact that I'm a sub fan, because being in a fricking DBZ club would be just damn awesome.


P.S. The dub and the original are not two different shows. They're both Dragon Ball with the same characters and plot.

[desirecampbell]

P.S. The dub and the original are not two different shows. They're both Dragon Ball with the same characters and plot.

No they're not. Funi's characterization of the series as a whole and their treatment of individual characters creates a completely different atmosphere, acting quality, and yes, even different plot points. You can say you prefer Funi's "re-imagining" to the original, but you can't say they're the same.


To the matter at hand, you're all being dicks. Saiyanqueen08 shows only the TV broadcast dub on the Orange Bricks - she is catering to a specific group of fans and alienating everyone else. I, for example, would never go to these meetings - there's just nothing for me there, and from the way Saiyanqueen08 talks about it, that's not going to change. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I don't want to look at garbage video while I listen to garbage music blare over people talking like their mouths are full of garbage.

Everyone else needs to let her be. If this is the type of community she wants to foster - one that doesn't try to expand its member's minds intellectually or artistically - that's fine. You're not changing her mind by being mean about it.

[Majin Buu]

I think I need to say this again. I haven't been saying, and I don't think anyone else has been saying that she HAS to cater to people that like the Japanese version. It would be nice if she did, but she doesn't have to if she doesn't want to. At this point I'm criticizing her nasty response to the people that expressed that they wouldn't want to join. Regardless of which version she prefers, she definitely didn't have to respond like that. If she had responded tactfully it would have been fine.


Also, I just re-read one of Gaffer's posts on the subject and wanted to address something I noticed:

In a way, I suppose what Majin Buu and I have said could be considered "elitist."

Mike addressed this earlier in the thread, but I think it needs to be said again because it's still happening. I think people are throwing the word "elitist" around in the wrong way. Being elitist means having a sense of superiority due to belonging to a certain group, having certain attributes that others don't, etc. Have I, Gaffer, or anyone else that has said they wouldn't want to join this club because of its focus on the dub expressed a sense of superiority about it or about being sub fans in general? No. Therefore calling us elitists because of our opinions on this is simply ridiculous.

[Innagadadavida]

Everyone else needs to let her be. If this is the type of community she wants to foster - one that doesn't try to expand its member's minds intellectually or artistically - that's fine. You're not changing her mind by being mean about it.

Yeah, because watching a childrens cartoon from the 1980s in Japanese is what challenges the mind intellectually and artistically.

I think I need to say this again. I haven't been saying, and I don't think anyone else has been saying that she HAS to cater to people that like the Japanese version. It would be nice if she did, but she doesn't have to if she doesn't want to. At this point I'm criticizing her nasty response to the people that expressed that they wouldn't want to join. Regardless of which version she prefers, she definitely didn't have to respond like that. If she had responded tactfully it would have been fine.

I think what you're failing to realize is that she is a normal person. A regular shmo you'd see at the grocery store. She isn't a nerd who posts on forums like you or I. It takes a special kind of mental dexterity to put up with constant bickering and outright argumentative disagreement constantly thrown at you in communication mediums like this. To some people it comes easy, to others it doesn't. Take Meri from the Daizenshuu EX podcast for example, she doesn't post because she can't handle being hassled the way you hassled Saiyanqueen08. I think Saiyanqueen08's response was a knee jerk reaction because she didn't expect to be questioned so adamantly about her preference the minute she jumped on to see the feedback. She doesn't care. She is just trying to have fun. Something that people like us lose sight of when we get all caught up in how superior our version is over another.

[VegettoEX]

Everyone else needs to let her be. If this is the type of community she wants to foster - one that doesn't try to expand its member's minds intellectually or artistically - that's fine. You're not changing her mind by being mean about it.

Yeah, because watching a childrens cartoon from the 1980s in Japanese is what challenges the mind intellectually and artistically.

Getting together and watching the version of a show that aired on all of our televisions isn't challenging in any way. It sounds from the interview like they sometimes have discussions about what they watched, so that's pretty neat and a little more involved -- that's cool club stuffage! Getting together to watch and perhaps discuss a different version of that show (in this case, the original Japanese, Kai or even the new English dub of Kai, something to do with the manga, etc.) and maybe in contrast to the original version (or some other language adaptation)... well, that would be intellectually challenging.

It's got nothing to do with "You suck because you like the dub" -- it's a matter of, literally, what people are sitting around doing. Some people want a club where they chill and watch that version of the show. Awesome. We've established that. Some people (such as those posting in response here on the forum, and perhaps other members of the club... none of which are speaking for themselves)... well, don't. That shouldn't be a shock to any of you.

I think what you're failing to realize is that she is a normal person. A regular shmo you'd see at the grocery store. She isn't a nerd who posts on forums like you or I. It takes a special kind of mental dexterity to put up with constant bickering and outright argumentative disagreement constantly thrown at you in communication mediums like this. To some people it comes easy, to others it doesn't. Take Meri from the Daizenshuu EX podcast for example, she doesn't post because she can't handle being hassled the way you hassled Saiyanqueen08. I think Saiyanqueen08's response was a knee jerk reaction because she didn't expect to be questioned so adamantly about her preference the minute she jumped on to see the feedback. She doesn't care. She is just trying to have fun. Something that people like us lose sight of when we get all caught up in how superior our version is over another.

You seem to know a lot about her! Without diving into anything else, the way I was able to find her for an interview was via her TeamFourStar forum account (which I noted on the show itself). I almost feel like I can dismiss everything else you're trying to defend her with based on that one fact, since it seems to negate everything else you said...

Doing everything I can to not start tossing out "I ran an anime club and here's how to successfully do it" quips .

[Innagadadavida]

Have you been to the TeamFourStar forums? It's not exactly Daizenshuu EX when it comes to members putting thought or reason into their post, or being questioned when they fail to do so. Daizenshuu EX is literally one in a million. This isn't your average "I like this" "I like this too" forum. The people here will tear you a new one if you're not prepared.

I don't know a lot about her, but I was explaining my perception based on what I saw. I saw someone who reacted the same way any normal person under the same circumstances would. I don't think its fair to drill her about her reaction because we're used to the regular tough-as-nails, sticks-and-stones Daizenshuu EX user. It's not welcoming, and it's not exactly called for. Not in this magnitude anyway.

[Majin Buu]

I think what you're failing to realize is that she is a normal person. A regular shmo you'd see at the grocery store. She isn't a nerd who posts on forums like you or I. It takes a special kind of mental dexterity to put up with constant bickering and outright argumentative disagreement constantly thrown at you in communication mediums like this. To some people it comes easy, to others it doesn't. Take Meri from the Daizenshuu EX podcast for example, she doesn't post because she can't handle being hassled the way you hassled Saiyanqueen08. I think Saiyanqueen08's response was a knee jerk reaction because she didn't expect to be questioned so adamantly about her preference the minute she jumped on to see the feedback. She doesn't care. She is just trying to have fun. Something that people like us lose sight of when we get all caught up in how superior our version is over another.

That's no excuse in my view. By that logic ANYONE can come on here, act nasty like that, and be absolved of any responsibility for it because they're "normal" and can't handle dissenting opinions or criticism. What if some random person from say, Gamefaqs or the Atari boards were to sign up and started responding like that when they saw opinions they didn't like? Calling others assholes and telling them to fuck off? That person would normally be called out and criticized for it like they should be, so why give her a free pass on it? If we're going to make allowances for her because she's "normal", then we should start making allowances for every "normal" person that signs up here and responds like that.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

No they're not. Funi's characterization of the series as a whole and their treatment of individual characters creates a completely different atmosphere, acting quality, and yes, even different plot points. You can say you prefer Funi's "re-imagining" to the original, but you can't say they're the same.

I wouldn't say that they're the same aswell, just very similar. To say that they're completely different is ignorant, though.

[saiyanqueen08]

Listen I answered your questions the way I wanted to answer them and truthfully. If you have a problem with it, stop your complaining it won't change anything anyway. I have a VERY successful club, with more members then over half the other clubs at my college. I am quite proud of it, and I watch what my members want to watch and what is at my disposal. I don't have the money to buy every version of DBZ out there, I have a real life and I go to college. My money is spent else where.

I was ecstatic that Daizenshuu had an interest in my club, but attacking me instead of just asking questions and accepting the answers does not make me think you people are actually interested in my club at all. You either bicker with each other or try to attack me, that doesn't want me to come back here. Accept the facts of MY club that I know about, or shut up. I do not analyze the show, I LOVE IT for what it is. I look at it and view it as the way thousands of fans view it, AS A TV SHOW!

This thread is about the club I created at MY college, if you can not take the way it is run, then stop responding to this thread and my posts. If you do not want my answers I will GLADLY stop answering you.

P.S. If you don't like it don't join. The point was to show that there was still interest and a growing fan base still around, not a way for you guys to attack someone who you apparently don't see as a fan. And you know what I find that very offensive and it makes me wonder if I should tell people I am a fan of DBZ if all I am going to get are "true" fans oppressing me for my deep interest and love for Dragonball Z.

Thank You for making me realize that I am blessed that my members are there to watch and enjoy the show and not to bash and hate on others views and thoughts of Dragonball Z.

[Majin Buu]

For crying out loud, no one has ever "attacked" you because you show the dub in your club. The criticisms have been of your attitude in response to the opinions of mine and a few others. Opinions that had every right to be stated and were made as tactfully and courteously as possible. Myself and a few others expressed that this doesn't sound like a club we would want to join and explained why, saying that it sounds like a good club for dub fans, but as sub fans, there's nothing there for us. However, despite how tactful our opinions were delivered, you gave a nasty response to them, calling us assholes and saying we should just fuck off. I and a few others simply called you on it. Anyone that has criticized you, myself included, has done so only because of the nasty attitude in your response. I would have accepted your answer just fine and left it at that if it hadn't had come with the nasty attitude. You're the one that's in the wrong here, and it ultimately makes you, and by extension your club, look bad.

And don't put words in people's mouths. No one ever said or implied that they view you as less of a fan. I also find it ironic that you say we hate on others for their views, yet you reacted as though you were hating on us for our views.

[Gaffer Tape]

Sigh. Since I had been weighing in on this topic at some point but hadn't checked in in a while, I am quite saddened to see how volatile things have gotten since then. And for the life of me I cannot figure out why. It's apparently an argument over why certain members of this forum were attacking the club president's views, which is silly because no one did anything of the sort. I wrote posts in response. And so did Majin Buu. I'm not going to pass judgment on my own posts, but from what I can tell, Majin Buu's were totally civil. The sentiments I was trying to express were simply, "Good job. Sadly, this club is not for me, but I respect what you're doing." Despite some of the events that have transpired here since, I still feel that way.

Let me make it perfectly clear to those who have gotten all (for lack of a better term) butthurt over this: Nowhere have I seen a single post in this thread where anyone has complained about not being catered to or expected to be catered to. In my time on this forum, I have made it clear that I am not a fan of the dub. I do not deny that. But I have absolutely no problem with someone who wants to focus a club exclusively on the dub. That's her right. That's her perogative. If she has a good, happy, healthy club doing that, then hats off to her (could still do without the hostile attitude, though). And just because it's not a club I can see myself enjoying doesn't mean that I don't think others can, but I also don't feel it's fair to be called out for feeling that way when I express that opinion in a civil manner. Think about this way. Say for a second this was about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And someone had a club that only watched the 2003 cartoon. But say that Majin Buu is only a fan of the 1987 cartoon and simply doesn't like the 2003 version. I don't see what's wrong with someone coming in and stating that opinion, or going, "Gee, I guess this isn't the club for me, is it?" as long as they're not whining about it, which I don't see anyone doing.

So, seriously, what the hell is everyone getting their panties in a bunch for?!

[Majin Buu]

Say for a second this was about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And someone had a club that only watched the 2003 cartoon. But say that Majin Buu is only a fan of the 1987 cartoon and simply doesn't like the 2003 version. I don't see what's wrong with someone coming in and stating that opinion, or going, "Gee, I guess this isn't the club for me, is it?" as long as they're not whining about it, which I don't see anyone doing.

It's funny that you used that example because I actually prefer the 2003 cartoon (it's closer to the source material and can be taken seriously). In my experience it's usually the people that like the 2003 cartoon more that get chastised for it because the 87 cartoon, while inferior in my opinion, is more popular due to it being the version that many Turtles fans grew up with.

[Gaffer Tape]

Haha, well, then... just pretend that example is reversed then. I think you get where I was going with it regardless.