Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

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VegettoEX
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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:00 am

Dogasu wrote:Not really...? I don't see why Crystal debuting online first somehow makes it a more likely candidate for retakes than Dragon Ball Super is.
I think Crystal's undeniably troubled production history coupled with its debut format (and especially its odd twice-monthly schedule) definitely sets it apart. From top to bottom it just seemed like a completely different beast of a show than anything else Toei has done in recent history.

I too am not definitively saying that Super won't see any touch-ups (I'd LOVE for it to get them!), but with as standard of a production as it is, I just wouldn't hold out any hope for that to happen.
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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:40 pm

One Piece has gotten revised animation, specifically for Episode of Merry. Hisada Kazuya was promoted to the role of chief animation supervisor on the TV series specifically to try and increase the quality of the series' overall look when Toei began to release Blu-ray singles, too. In fact, nearly all of the recent Toei Animation series have used chief animation supervisors to try and increase the consistency of episodes. If there is one episode that won't slide I think it will be Episode #5 but even then I'm not sure who could correct the cuts given Tate Naoki is busy with his upcoming episodes and both chief animation supervisors are constantly busy, too.

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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by Dogasu » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:11 pm

Didn't Super have a troubled production as well, given how little was revealed before the show came out? I remember plenty of people (myself included!) wondering if the show was actually going to make its July 5th debut given how the only real footage we had beforehand was a brief teaser trailer that consisted mostly of pan shots and still images where the only things moving were the characters' mouths. The reused Kai footage also points at the show being behind schedule a lot of the time.

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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:18 pm

Dogasu wrote:Didn't Super have a troubled production as well, given how little was revealed before the show came out? I remember plenty of people (myself included!) wondering if the show was actually going to make its July 5th debut given how the only real footage we had beforehand was a brief teaser trailer that consisted mostly of pan shots and still images where the only things moving were the characters' mouths. The reused Kai footage also points at the show being behind schedule a lot of the time.
Series Director Chioka Kimitoshi had been storyboarding for other series up to just a month before Dragon Ball Super began broadcasting. This means he was either brought onto the project very late or Toei Animation needed to divert his attention mid-pre-production to work on other projects that had no storyboard artist available. The series director is the lead creative force of a series and the series typically reflects their attitude and production philosophies. Traditionally a series director will personally storyboard and see his storyboard through for the first episode of a series. Series Director Koga Gou had four months between abandoning One Piece Episode #570 (28 Ocotober 2012) to direct and storyboard Doki-Doki! PreCure Episode #1 03 February 2013). When Tanaka Yuuta finished his storyboard for Majin Bone Episode #23 (02 September 2014) he immediately jumped ship to become the series director of Go! Princess PreCure (01 February 2015). Tanaka has so far storyboarded and directed Episode #22 and storyboarded Episodes #32 and #39 of his series.

We know the core staff for up to twenty-one episodes of Dragon Ball Super and Chioka has yet to storyboard or personally oversee a single episode. When Chioka was series director of Hakaba Kitarou he at least had the time to be an episode director for three of the eleven episodes and storyboard two of them himself. Before becoming the series director of Dragon Ball Super Chioka had the time to storyboard episodes of many Toei series all year long. Dragon Ball Super Episode #5 had good staff work on it. Shimizu Junji has directed some great fights before, like One Piece Movie #9 and World Trigger Episode #7. If Dragon Ball Super Episode #5 as aired so far actually reflects his storyboard then I would imagine the storyboard was massively rushed, too. The animation supervisor, Tate Naoki, is a great action animator, too and was the animation supervisor and character designer of the aforementioned One Piece Movie #9, to say nothing of being a veteran animator for the Dragon Ball franchise. Although Tate didn't have time to do any key animation for the episode himself he did have freelance animator and storyboard artist Ootsuka Ken provide key animation.

To recapitulate, pre-production was either delayed or practically non-existent, the number of animators available is terribly small due to the lack of proper scheduling and the industry being so busy with other projects, the series director's hand seems to be non-existent. Another aspect to consider is how so many storyboards are not being drawn by their episode directors. Typically Toei Animation is strict about having their episode directors do their own storyboards but on Dragon Ball Super many episodes will first have a storyboard artist do the storyboard and then a separate episode director see the board through to final product. This either means that the episode directors have no time to draw their own boards (the average board takes three weeks to finish), storyboard artists are boarding quickly and passing their boards on as quickly as possible to get to the next episode to help get ahead of schedule or the episode directors available cannot draw so extra help is needed. Episode Directors Mikami Masato and Satou Masanori are relatively young directors so they may either not have the ability to draw their own boards or are not trusted to draw their own boards. Both only recently began being credited as enshutsu rather than 演出助手 (enshutsu joshu) so I'm thinking that they were only promoted due to a lack of manpower at Toei Animation.

The series also has three rotating chief animation supervisors. Even World Trigger has only two while One Piece and Go! Princess PreCure have but one. Coupled with how Yashima Yoshitaka does not have the ability to finish all of the key animation for episodes himself like he has on other series and I think there's room for an argument that the situation is dire. Then again, the use of three animation supervisors might be an attempt at simply rubbing out the quirks of the animation supervisors...but if that were true we wouldn't have Toma Seizou and Iseki Shuu'ichi as animation supervisors as they were for Episode #4 and Episode #16 respectively.

I'm probably forgetting something but I'll leave things here for now.

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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by Araki » Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:23 am

Dogasu wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:People point to Crystal often, but that was a web series first. Pretty huge difference.
Not really...? I don't see why Crystal debuting online first somehow makes it a more likely candidate for retakes than Dragon Ball Super is.
The thing with Crystal is that it was in desperate need of retouches. The art was absolutely atrocious most of the time, especially in the first half. They couldn't get even close ups right. Being a streaming-only show probably meant it was standing at the bottom of the barrel when it came to their priorities.

Only the first 3 episodes of Super were released in dvd yet, and there's nothing in those that would require an obvious fix. Only people who reaaally nitpick will notice something different, assuming anything happened at all. Off the top of my head, in episode 3 there was a mistake with Videl's socks, but that was pretty much it.
Super #5 is the only one so far that needs it the way Crystal did, and i'm positive scenes will be redone. It wasn't a bad product, it was an unfinished product, which is much worse. Leaving it how it aired will hurt future sales, while fixes will bring credibility. So they have to make room for it in their schedule.
JulieYBM wrote:Series Director Chioka Kimitoshi had been storyboarding for other series up to just a month before Dragon Ball Super began broadcasting. This means he was either brought onto the project very late or Toei Animation needed to divert his attention mid-pre-production to work on other projects that had no storyboard artist available. The series director is the lead creative force of a series and the series typically reflects their attitude and production philosophies.
Kimitoshi half-storyboarded a World Trigger episode that aired in June, but a half storyboard is pretty unusual for Toei as far as i know, so that seems to scream "emergency!!". I'm guessing they were in a hurry for someone to fill the role around March-April at most.
And i think what you say about series directors don't apply that much in long running anime, where there are too many different directors working every week on the clock. When he does manage to put his touch on it, it usually takes a while for it to be noticed. That said, i think Super does give a very different feel compared to the movies, although it's debatable if that's up to having another head director or not.

I think Super's short pre-production could be detected up to episode 9, but ever since then it seems to have found its feet. The rotation is getting consistent and predictable, with more room between episodes for the animation supervisors, and as a result the art is generally more solid now.
I mean, take a look at episode 19. Over the first couple months, i doubt they could make an episode that looked this solid using such a small team of key animators.
Typically Toei Animation is strict about having their episode directors do their own storyboards but on Dragon Ball Super many episodes will first have a storyboard artist do the storyboard and then a separate episode director see the board through to final product. This either means that the episode directors have no time to draw their own boards (the average board takes three weeks to finish), storyboard artists are boarding quickly and passing their boards on as quickly as possible to get to the next episode to help get ahead of schedule or the episode directors available cannot draw so extra help is needed.
Over the past few weeks, episodes 17 and 19 were storyboarded and directed by the same person. Only 18 wasn't, but then again, the storyboarder was Naotoshi Shida, who NEVER directed anything. He storyboarded MANY One Piece/Pretty Cure/etc episodes but didn't direct any of them. Since he did the same work in like five Super episodes already, they're bound to have had a different director. So i think that's a rather unfair observation, as you're singling out Super there as it were an uncommon occurrence when that's not really the case, especially with artists like Shida involved.

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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by ParkerAL » Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:30 am

As someone who recently graduated with a university journalism degree, and as someone who has worked in professional newsrooms already (only my college newspaper and internships so far), I very much enjoyed this week's look at reporting ethics. Fan site or not, you guys have a good grasp of getting the facts right.

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Re: Episode #0390 (15 November 2015)

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:42 pm

Herms wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:Wait no Funimation dub? Hmmmmm not sure I like the sound of that, then again I'l probably just watch it in Japanese most of the time.
There almost certainly will be a Funimation dub somewhere down the road. However, Funimation will not be the first to dub the series. That's all.
Sorry, I posted that before actually listening to the podcast. :oops:

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