Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

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VegettoEX
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Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:42 pm

Episode #0396 (download MP3) (rss feed) (subscribe in iTunes) (YouTube version)
56:04; 96 kbps, mono; 40.6 MB

Episode #0396! VegettoEX and Hujio discuss the new background lore recently introduced in "Dragon Ball Super" before turning their attention to criticism of the show. After coming off two movie re-tellings, and only having just gotten five episodes into a new story arc, how fair is it at this point to even be critical of the new arc at all? Which aspects warrant further discussion, and at what point do you have to give everyone the benefit of the doubt?

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Whoomp, there it is.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Kuririn Fan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:26 pm

Solid as always, boys!

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:35 pm

Yes! The I Want to Get Married Mambo!!!

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Kuririn Fan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:38 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Yes! The I Want to Get Married Mambo!!!
So that's why i thought i heard Kuririn singing! Interesting. I heard about that song somewhere.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:53 pm

Hmm. I wonder where... :wink:

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Kuririn Fan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:01 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Hmm. I wonder where... :wink:
I'm not even surprised. :D

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Wouldn't it be a great typical Toriyama twist if, when the dragon is summoned from the Super Dragon Balls, it suffocates to death because it's in space?

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:56 pm

On the one hand, I definitely agree we sometimes need to delay our opinions until the scope of the series starts to be more clear.

But on the other hand...watching the fandom freak out over every episode is really entertaining when you look back with hindsight.

Like, I would totally buy a book of just someone analysing how the internet reacted to Super every week.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by DBZfan29 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:07 pm

This episode has gotten me excited for Super, which for a while now I kind of figured I'd get around to watching whenever...

P.S. The GT version of "Don't you see!" was released five years ago as a bonus track on ZARD Album Collection ~20th Anniversary~. It was most likely rerecorded to be a little faster than the original (the same happened with "MY FRIEND," "Iki mo Dekinai," "Unmei no Roulette Mawashite," and "Ashita wo Yumemite"), so it's only a TV-size version. You're better off ripping the audio from one of the DVDs if you want it since the set costs over $200.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:33 pm

Especially taking in mind what we see in Shirobako the series director is typically the one who is the lead creative force and he works with the series kousei, now King Ryuu, to reformat their ideas into scripts.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by SaiyaSith » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:37 am

Such a good podcast this week!

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:39 am

DBZfan29 wrote:P.S. The GT version of "Don't you see!" was released five years ago as a bonus track on ZARD Album Collection ~20th Anniversary~. It was most likely rerecorded to be a little faster than the original (the same happened with "MY FRIEND," "Iki mo Dekinai," "Unmei no Roulette Mawashite," and "Ashita wo Yumemite"), so it's only a TV-size version. You're better off ripping the audio from one of the DVDs if you want it since the set costs over $200.
Super helpful and appreciated. Very glad I stated in-episode that I was slightly talking out of my ass; it's been a long while (clearly longer than five years) since I last looked into it.
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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:25 pm

This episode made it quite clear to me how many more Dragon Ball discussions Mike follows than I do! Of course I'm not on Twitter, so that is not hard milestone to hit.

I would agree that weekly TV series will consistently lack the substance to merit week-by-week review, but whenever I happen to watch a Youtube episode review the speaker seems to take the episode for what it wanted to do, understands that breaking down what is a piece of small story is an incomplete, speculative business, and is not afraid to say "Well, guys, this one was not great." Like they understand the media they're looking at. Half of the package is vanity anyway; you know the story events, you are there for a speaker.

I think the sentiment you two were trying to get at with the hyper-critical is "Why can't I feel proud of Dragon Ball anymore?"- the antidote for which is, most certainly, to step back and understand what the Dragon Ball Z TV series and the collective franchise was and is. It seems some folks have pigeonholed Dragon Ball into such a specific part of their history that Dragon Ball's "coming back" can only be seen as a continuation of that older time, those older stories, that previous era in the franchise's development. "I want Super to do this because it is a continuation of my experiences! Because that is what Dragon Ball is!" Suddenly the backyard brawls and breakfast cereal mornings FUNi used in their promo for the first Blu-Ray Season seem a little more on point.

I mean, I'm Toonami-folk, I take no risks in saying a good number of American posters here are, but thanks to ye olde Kanzenshuu I have more context than anyone should ever need! But if you watched DBZ on Toonami fourteen years ago, played a video game here or there, and your "reunion" with the series was Battle of Gods? Of course that will confuse you.
MozillaVulpix wrote:But on the other hand...watching the fandom freak out over every episode is really entertaining when you look back with hindsight.

Like, I would totally buy a book of just someone analysing how the internet reacted to Super every week.
If only for the history of it, let alone the actual reactions- this is far and away a new era of fan dialogue for a weekly Dragon Ball series!

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:01 pm

Fans being over critical even before they finish the very first episode is sadly happening with every new anime these days. They only need one stupid reason to say "Dropped" without even giving it a chance and it really hurts me how they are so quick to judge without even trying to explain their reasoning. And when they do it's usually "animation suck" or "Main protag is a trap" all the way down to the voice actors. Yes, people went as far as to drop an anime just because one voice actor they did not like. You have those overly passionate fans who say stuff like they can't accept "Good", they want "Excellent". And if it wasn't near anything of "Excellent", then it becomes "The worst thing ever" kind of response.

My argument is there's no perfect production no matter how excellent the work is. I never, ever give a 10/10 even to the most favorite of most favorite anime because no matter how much I love them they still have one point or two that I didn't like stopping me from giving a perfect score. I'm a guy who accepts anything as long as I'm having fun and my focus tends to be for the plot and characters and stuff and not to animation or character designs. Yeah, I notice when things go wrong but I don't make it my top priority. The movie that cemented that perspective in my mind was "Garden of Words". An anime movie that was so praised for it's beautiful animation, but it bored me to death because the plot was not interesting! That's when I really learned that animation and effects means nothing if they don't support it with a story that gets my interest and makes invested in what I watch. I watched Classic Doctor Who and that's a show known to have the budget of tin foil effects and yet it made a lot of excellent and memorable episodes despite the terrible effects. If I could accept that, why not accept it when it comes to anime? In fact, yes. I did it with Flower of Evil. Heard of it? It was infamous and hated upon for using rotoscoping instead of traditional animation and many have dropped it for that one reason. Me? I kept watching it till the end because the plot was intriguing and kept me invested in what's happening to the point it was the my most anticipated anime of the season.



Short Version: I give chance to whatever I watch, I care more about plot than animation, I'm fine with "good", Filthy Casuals can't accept anything below "Masterpiece Level". I didn't like Super at first for rehashing the movies but now I'm giving it my attention and I'm liking what I'm watching.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:11 pm

While I agree people are not-smart in their shallow criticism of the franchise they contribute damned near no money towards I'd like to remind the discussion that we're talking about English-speaking--typically western--fans, none of whom either support these shows or are the impetus for their funding or creation. In other words, they're presence or blissful lack thereof pretty much amounts to nothing.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by MagicBox » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:41 pm

Great discussion! I remember getting a little critical during the Beerus Arc of Super (even prematurely comparing its pros and cons with GT) before falling into complete apathy for the Freeza Arc. My interest has since come back around, and I realize that all that effort I spent complaining should have been saved until I could look at those arcs, completed, in hindsight. It needs to be remembered that fandom is a love for something, and I think one should re-evaluate his or her fandom if they aren't willing to at least give something its fair chance.

Now the only thing I actively criticize is Sumitomo's score. The guy's had four chances by now and I think we've heard all we can hope to hear from him.

Also, AGREED about the "Godly Best" CDs. I'm so sad. As far as I'm concerned, drop the songs from Super and include everything else. Then release an album for Super once it's done with. Include the opening theme if you must, but absolutely prioritize everything else above that. I wanted all five of those GT songs in one purchase.

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote:While I agree people are not-smart in their shallow criticism of the franchise they contribute damned near no money towards I'd like to remind the discussion that we're talking about English-speaking--typically western--fans, none of whom either support these shows or are the impetus for their funding or creation. In other words, they're presence or blissful lack thereof pretty much amounts to nothing.
Yup yup. There are all manner of aggressive modes people can take with these things- "Shun the apologists", "If we're angry LOUDER maybe they'll do something!", but to a peeved American Dragon Ball is being produced on the other side of the world (proportionally closer or farther to any other non-Japanese) behind a language barrier in a notoriously insular country by an animation company that is probably confusing the bejeesus out of its international partners right now. We've got nothing.
MagicBox wrote:Great discussion! I remember getting a little critical during the Beerus Arc of Super (even prematurely comparing its pros and cons with GT) before falling into complete apathy for the Freeza Arc.
I am sticking to the line that anyone who committed to the movie filler brought that upon themselves. :?

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Re: Episode #0396 (21 February 2016)

Post by Puto » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:06 am

DBZfan29 wrote:This episode has gotten me excited for Super, which for a while now I kind of figured I'd get around to watching whenever...

P.S. The GT version of "Don't you see!" was released five years ago as a bonus track on ZARD Album Collection ~20th Anniversary~. It was most likely rerecorded to be a little faster than the original (the same happened with "MY FRIEND," "Iki mo Dekinai," "Unmei no Roulette Mawashite," and "Ashita wo Yumemite"), so it's only a TV-size version. You're better off ripping the audio from one of the DVDs if you want it since the set costs over $200.
It's not faster, not after the first different-sounding part anyway.

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