Episode #0145 (07 September 2008)

We cover anything and everything Dragon Ball in hopes of enlightening... and a little bit of entertaining. Hosted every week by the Kanzenshuu staff and regular special guests from the professional and fandom communities. Your first, best, last, and only Dragon Ball podcast!

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The Tori-bot
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Post by The Tori-bot » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:30 pm

I was going to write a really long, glorifying post about just how great this episode was...

But then Julian said the F Word. My image of Julian as a figure of perfection is ruined. Runied. RUINED. :cry:
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Post by JulieYBM » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:41 pm

Herms wrote:< snip post >
They're thinking of Gero's line: "I have no knowledge of this power." (paraphrased)
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Post by nimerjm » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:23 pm

Hey board. I'm Jason (the tattooed guy with the question) from this week's podcast and I did send permission from them to post my pics.

My next (and last appointment) is this Thursday, so I should have pics of the finished product in a week or two.

First post - hope I didn't mess up and break a rule!
DBZ tattoo sleeve finally finished at the 85 hour mark. Pic: http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u11/nimerjm/JasonTattoo1.jpg

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Post by LeprikanGT » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:35 pm

Yay, there is permission now; I cant wait to see what your sleeve looks like.

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Post by DaemonCorps » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:02 pm

Whew, quite the interesting podcast. You know it's pretty good when even the forum topic is an interesting read just by itself.

All that information about "ladder of descending canon" (sounds like some kind of video game title) is new to me. While I guess I'd make some kind of mental note about what information to regard as higher than others, I never knew an actual term existed for it. The same goes for fans who view the movies as just one separate alternate universe. I always saw each individual movie as a a "what if" scenario all its own, including the ones that (tried to) make an alternate universe for a specific movie baddie.

I always saw all this canon talk as just something that people did for fun (kinda like that whole Sherlock Holmes thing that Herms brought up)... then I remembered that this was the DB fandom, infamous for fans that take things way too seriously :P. I personally don't really discuss stuff like canon for the most part, but when I do, I pretty much go by what you guys have already brought up as the "order of things," starting at the manga, then moving lower to the anime and the movies.

As for the name pun with Pui Pui, I remember Viz re-naming him as "Pocus" so the readers will get that he's supposed to be a pun.

:gasp: Julian making penis jokes and swearing?! Maybe it's actually him that has the evil counterpart...

Crazy awesome episode overall. Talk about canon is the kind of thing that I find interesting and can't really be completely covered in just one podcast episode, but I wouldn't really want some kind of follow up episode to. Also, glad to see that Desire's still basking in his internet fame :lol:.
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Post by Forgotten Hero » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:38 pm

Good episode!
I was not too familiar with Desirecampbell, but I'm really impressed with his take and knowledge on Canon in all subjects of fandom.
Great episode! Can't wait until next Sunday!

Oh, I can't wait for Vgconvos either!
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Post by Super Ghost Kamikaze » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:16 pm

DaemonCorps wrote: All that information about "ladder of descending canon" (sounds like some kind of video game title) is new to me.
Yeah, Star Wars fans are all-too intimately acquainted with this idea, and are probably the best example of this.

But it 's not all cut and dry in the world of Star Wars. The recent novel stories seem to all fit right, but when you go through the franchise's 30-year history, there are all sorts of small contradictions within the existing canon. Also, the Sith Era(or Old Republic Era) seems to have conflicting stories within the equally-canonical Old Republic comics and Darth Bane novels(I personally vastly prefer the Bane novel's interpretation of events, they're amazing novels). And then there are small things in there, like whether or not Cortosis ore is brittle or incredibly tough, etc.

The ladder of canon does serve to more organize the bigger contradictions. But small contradictions, on the same level of canon, do exist. Usually, though, major story elements are only contradicted when we have to say "This 30 year-old novel simply does not fit everything else that has been done since", or when George Lucas decided to make huge changes to things only explored in the EU when making the prequels. Basically, a ladder of canon is NECESSARY to make ANY sense of it. And a lot of Star Wars fans think its better than the Star Trek system, under which licensed novels and other merchandise with a story can say whatever they want within their own story, and they don't have to fit in with each other.

...

I'm sorry, I started ranting.

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Post by VegettoEX » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:18 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:I was not too familiar with Desirecampbell
He's this guy. He's also this guy. And this guy.

I temporarily banned him on the forum for a while because he's kind of a jackass. But he's also a wonderful person. And I love him. And he can speak properly. And has things to say. And can realize when he's being a jackass. Or maybe not, but still holds back and pretends he likes me so his internet fame will continue to grow.

In all seriousness, I'm loving what everyone's having to say and really glad that you're all enjoying the episode. I have things to say of my own, but you're doing a great-enough job covering it all for me :P.
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Post by Super Ghost Kamikaze » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:25 pm

VegettoEX wrote:I have things to say of my own, but you're doing a great-enough job covering it all for me :P.
Oh come on, participate a little! I'm curious!

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Post by JulieYBM » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:58 pm

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:I have things to say of my own, but you're doing a great-enough job covering it all for me :P.
Oh come on, participate a little! I'm curious!
VegettoEX, posting on his own forum? Sacrilige!!

...'sides, doesn't he have a wedding to prepare for?
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Post by Ex-Dubbie369 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:24 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:I was not too familiar with Desirecampbell
He's this guy. He's also this guy. And this guy.
God, I haven't seen that in a while. Still awesome.

Anyways, this is definitely one of my favorite episodes now. Very intelligent conversation and a good way to sum it up. I'm glad that you guys emphasized multiple times that canon is just a fan thing and can really only be speculated because we're not given some big list of "canonocity".

Also, Mike, did you buy the R2 single of Movie 1, even though you own the DBox?

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Post by VegettoEX » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:28 pm

Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:Also, Mike, did you buy the R2 single of Movie 1, even though you own the DBox?
Not... yet... 8)
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Post by Herms » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:43 pm

Oh yeah, Mike and/or Julian: how are his/your efforts to obtain a ticket to the Jump Super Anime Tour going? The deadline to apply for the Tokyo screening has already passed, and since the Osaka screening is being held a week before Tokyo's, if he/you hasn't applied for a ticket yet, it's probably too late.
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Post by fps_anth » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Ex-Dubbie369 wrote:Also, Mike, did you buy the R2 single of Movie 1, even though you own the DBox?
Not... yet... 8)
Man, you really should. I mean, as far as I know, you only own like...1 copy of the movie maybe?

:lol:
The Tori-bot wrote:I was going to write a really long, glorifying post about just how great this episode was...

But then Julian said the F Word. My image of Julian as a figure of perfection is ruined. Runied. RUINED. :cry:
He opened Safari instead of Firefox. If that doesn't warrant a "fuck" I don't know what does :P

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Post by Forgotten Hero » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:51 am

VegettoEX wrote: I temporarily banned him on the forum for a while because he's kind of a jackass. But he's also a wonderful person. And I love him. And he can speak properly. And has things to say. And can realize when he's being a jackass. Or maybe not, but still holds back and pretends he likes me so his internet fame will continue to grow.

In all seriousness, I'm loving what everyone's having to say and really glad that you're all enjoying the episode. I have things to say of my own, but you're doing a great-enough job covering it all for me :P.
That is a lot of ands bro! lol
Thanks for the links! I wanna learn about the other authorities aside yourself. So, great man!
lol Dancing!
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Post by disturbed001 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:11 am

Ok so i really really want to see this guys tattoos!
"hmm lets see.....nope, I don't have any Jewish candy"

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Post by Sabin Deus » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:13 pm

You mispronounced Godannar. It is Go - Daan (long a) - Arr

(it is an excellent series)

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Post by Forgotten Hero » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:50 am

I was re listening to the podcast and I noticed Desirecampbell said there are some exceptions to the canonisty of DBZ. He failed to mention Bardock. Originally, he wasn't canon. But Toriyama liked him so much, Bardock became canon. Thus the Bardock Special is canon.

Another thing I wanna question; the whole crew said that the movies never fit in. I think movie thirteen could fit. The battle with Hildegarn could have happened between the five years after the battle with Kid Buu.
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Post by nimerjm » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:55 am

I completely agree with movie 13 and its ability to "fit in."

It might not be my favorite one; that honor goes to movie 11. It was the first DBZ movie I ever saw (a horribly sketchy "fan-sub," bought at Dragon-Con in 1998 or so), but there was no way it could "fit" with the rest of the series.

Movie 13, on the other hand, could very easily slide into the five year period after Kid Buu and before (groan) DBGT.

I guess I'll watch it again, but as of right now, I see no reason that movie 13 couldn't be considered canon.
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Post by LeprikanGT » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:18 am

To "tie in" movie 13; I think it would have been cool for Buu and Mr Satan to make an appearance. An example being right before Goku goes ss3, Mr satan could appear on the roof of a building and gives a rant [as he always does] and Buu rushes in and keep him busy for a minute or so and THEN goku could go ss3.

Why was Piccolo M.I.A. in movie 13, was it ever addressed?

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