Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:54 am

Danfun64 wrote:I'm fairly sure that this dub has at the very least the same edits the Nicktoons version of Funi's dub of Kai has, as Ocean is mentioned in the credits as being involved in the editing.
I agree but I wouldn't rule out the possibility some liberties were taken with the script. After all Lee Tockar did say this dub was a little darker than Funimation's dub. It was a peculiar claim that has always fascinated me because there's only so much you can do in terms of going darker when creating a second English dub of an already existing show. Other than the music or sound effects being more ominous I can't think of much else besides maybe certain things being phrased in a more threatening way. Guess we'll have to wait and see when and if this dub is ever released.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:47 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Danfun64 wrote:I'm fairly sure that this dub has at the very least the same edits the Nicktoons version of Funi's dub of Kai has, as Ocean is mentioned in the credits as being involved in the editing.
I agree but I wouldn't rule out the possibility some liberties were taken with the script. After all Lee Tockar did say this dub was a little darker than Funimation's dub. It was a peculiar claim that has always fascinated me because there's only so much you can do in terms of going darker when creating a second English dub of an already existing show. Other than the music or sound effects being more ominous I can't think of much else besides maybe certain things being phrased in a more threatening way. Guess we'll have to wait and see when and if this dub is ever released.
Ocean isn't the type of dubbing studio to do liberties with the script. They mostly stick to the Japanese.

I'm having a hard time seeing how an edited English dub could be darker than an uncut English dub. It just doesn't make sense.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:53 am

From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.

Lee Tockar described the dub as more whimsical, perhaps a little darker, but another actor involved found that slightly confusing as he felt it was not darker at all.

If the tone is different it will be mainly due to the new score which sounds like it will be a bit more dramatic; also probably even due to the reads given.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:51 am

SX10 wrote:From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.

Lee Tockar described the dub as more whimsical, perhaps a little darker, but another actor involved found that slightly confusing as he felt it was not darker at all.
If the tone is different it will be mainly due to the new score which sounds like it will be a bit more dramatic; also probably even due to the reads given.
Who said that? Was it a Vancouver or a Calgary actor?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:26 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
SX10 wrote:From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.

Lee Tockar described the dub as more whimsical, perhaps a little darker, but another actor involved found that slightly confusing as he felt it was not darker at all.
If the tone is different it will be mainly due to the new score which sounds like it will be a bit more dramatic; also probably even due to the reads given.
Who said that? Was it a Vancouver or a Calgary actor?
Calgary actor. I would say his name and it probably has been mentioned way back on this thread before, but he said he wasn't fine to talk about things until he mentioned that he would ask questions at Ocean. Then nothing, so :s
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:29 am

Not to be that guy that's double posts, but I only have my phone on me and it won't let me edit my previous post, so to clarify:

He said that he WAS able to talk about the dub, just shortly before going quiet.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:31 pm

SX10 wrote:From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.
Well, Funimation's Kai scripts had some problems, mostly down to them switching translators a couple of times, dropping the Japanese attack names half-way through, and at least some of the translation being based on a rather flawed fansub. That's not to say their Kai scripts weren't good, just that there's a lot of room for improvement.

Given how great a job Ocean did with the scripts for Blue Water GT, this dub may end up on-level with Funimation's, with the main deciding factor of preference being your voice actor preferences, as has been expected to be the case from the beginning. The censorship will probably factor into it somewhat, although I imagine it'll be pretty minor, since these scripts will have been written with TV in mind from the start, rather than Funimation's which were retrofitted with censorship for the censored TV airings.
People may complain about the replacement score, although I imagine whatever they've used will be infinitely better than the hastily put-together Kikuchi score currently used in Kai, so honestly, I'd say the replacement score would probably end up being a point in Ocean's favour.

Ugh, the more I hear about this dub, the more I want to see it. Just put it in my eyes already! :lol:

BTW, thought I'd cross-post this from another thread, in which we were talking about UK airings of Dragon Ball, and I made an off-hand remark about getting Toonami in the UK being a potential way to get Ocean Kai on the air:
Robo4900 wrote:
NitroEX wrote:I feel as though we may actually be in a better position to get Toonami back now. Pierre Branco was just recently promoted by Turner to senior VP for the UK and Northern Europe, he used to be the general manager for Turner Broadcasting in France, Portugal, Africa and Israel. France had a Toonami launch last year and now Africa just launched Toonami as well, this seems to have all hapepned under his leadership which is a very good sign for us.

Pierre could very well be the hero we need right now, that is unless the UK division is still entrenched in an anti anime/action toon mentality.
Is there an easy way to contact this guy about this?

Perhaps we should continue to discuss this in the main Ocean Kai thread?
For me personally, the UK getting Toonami back would be a best case scenario; Toonami would be a great channel to get back, and if it brought Ocean Kai with it(Which it probably would), words couldn't express how happy I'd be.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:55 pm

SX10 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
SX10 wrote:From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.

Lee Tockar described the dub as more whimsical, perhaps a little darker, but another actor involved found that slightly confusing as he felt it was not darker at all.
If the tone is different it will be mainly due to the new score which sounds like it will be a bit more dramatic; also probably even due to the reads given.
Who said that? Was it a Vancouver or a Calgary actor?
Calgary actor. I would say his name and it probably has been mentioned way back on this thread before, but he said he wasn't fine to talk about things until he mentioned that he would ask questions at Ocean. Then nothing, so :s
Oh, it was James Beach, right?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:32 pm

Definitely think it will be similar to Blue Water's GT situation! Now that said, this source did say that this dub is still very much it's own take and didn't want to ruin any surprises. How intriguing and exciting is that?!

I hear the new score is similar to DC animated shows - specifically old school Teen Titans etc. Perhaps not exactly what fans may be expecting but was urged to give it a chance. This actor heard some of it and was reaaaalllly into it. Wanted a specific peice for his iPod.

I think it will be a TV edit. Maybe it was recorded uncut, but it's more than likely that it's as censored as the NickToons version. I don't really care. It'd kick ass to have an uncut version, no doubt, but it's not gonna be a deal breaker for me.

I cannot wait to hear it!

I saw about Toonami! Fingers crossed!!!!
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:35 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
SX10 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote: Who said that? Was it a Vancouver or a Calgary actor?
Calgary actor. I would say his name and it probably has been mentioned way back on this thread before, but he said he wasn't fine to talk about things until he mentioned that he would ask questions at Ocean. Then nothing, so :s
Oh, it was James Beach, right?

Yep!

I've gotten a little worried about mentioning names, dunno who's reading.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:45 pm

SX10 wrote:Definitely think it will be similar to Blue Water's GT situation! Now that said, this source did say that this dub is still very much it's own take and didn't want to ruin any surprises. How intriguing and exciting is that?!
Absolutely. Honestly, even though Blue Water GT had some odd casting choices, and the acting wasn't always great, I've always had a lot of love for that dub; it was accurate, it kept the spirit of the show, and I find it far more enjoyable than Funimation's mess. Naturally, the Japanese version is still probably the best version of GT, but Blue Water's dub was still pretty great.
SX10 wrote:I hear the new score is similar to DC animated shows - specifically old school Teen Titans etc. Perhaps not exactly what fans may be expecting but was urged to give it a chance. This actor heard some of it and was reaaaalllly into it. Wanted a specific peice for his iPod.
That sounds really cool. Honestly, even if it's merely okay, it'd still be better than Kai Kikuchi. The fact the actors seem to really like it sounds like good news though, and I think that type of music could fit really well in Kai, particularly with the more modern feel Kai was going for with the Yamamoto soundtrack from the beginning. :)
SX10 wrote:I think it will be a TV edit. Maybe it was recorded uncut, but it's more than likely that it's as censored as the NickToons version. I don't really care. It'd kick ass to have an uncut version, no doubt, but it's not gonna be a deal breaker for me.
It was probably entirely produced for TV. As you say, not a deal breaker. Honestly, the Nicktoons cuts were pretty minimal, with them instead opting to use visual edits, which were never really that bad, and if a good cap surfaces, the edits can be fixed by pasting uncut footage over it.
SX10 wrote:I cannot wait to hear it!

I saw about Toonami! Fingers crossed!!!!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
SX10 wrote:Yep!

I've gotten a little worried about mentioning names, dunno who's reading.
Do we know who/if he was in Ocean Kai?
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:58 pm

Beach played a minor character in episode 21.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:34 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote: Is there an easy way to contact this guy about this?

Perhaps we should continue to discuss this in the main Ocean Kai thread?
For me personally, the UK getting Toonami back would be a best case scenario; Toonami would be a great channel to get back, and if it brought Ocean Kai with it(Which it probably would), words couldn't express how happy I'd be.
Unfortunatley I don't know of a way to contact him and it doesn't look like he's on social media either so we may have to try other methods of being heard.

But yeah, I completely agree, getting Toonami back in the UK would not only be the best channel for Dragon Ball in the UK but it could also be Ocean Kai's last chance to be broadcast here (although there's always hope for Canada). Turner at least have a track record with the Ocean dub in the past and at this point, I think they're the only ones who would even care enough to seek it out. Other UK channels would probably just be oblivious to the history of the dubs and follow the same route CSC Media took... which (if Toei are to be trusted) would just end up getting us the Funimation dub again. I suppose that wouldn't be a bad thing in Super's case, but not at the expense of finally hearing this Kai dub.

Thankfully Turner has shown some initiative by making their own Bang Zoom dub of Super (albeit with some bizarre casting and directing decisions) but at least it shows they're a big enough company to call the shots if need be, rather than simply having Toei tell them what to use. I just hope they don't go overboard in this direction in an effort to save money.

I think a best case scenario for a UK Toonami launch would be starting completely fresh with Kai and (finally) using the Ocean dub. While that airs, they allow Ocean to pick up directly where they left off with the Buu arc and eventually Super, the dubs might be a little rushed to meet demand but they'd be consistent at least. The only problem with that scenario would be Turner wanting to fast track straight to Super since it's the newest anime. I suppose the solution would then be to air it alongside Kai, but that might prompt them to use the BZ or Funi dub. It would be a fair solution but also a wasted opportunity for fans.

There's always the possibility of a worst case scenario too, we might not see any Dragon Ball content on the channel at all, or, if they do air Dragon Ball (which I think is more likely), they opt for the Bang Zoom dub of Super and then decide to follow that up with a Bang Zoom to dub Kai as well, you know, for consistency! Plus it might also be cheaper than hiring Ocean. If that happened... I think I would just give up on the UK entirely. I'm probably just being paranoid though, they'd likely go with Funimation in a worst case scenario but I'm really hoping they don't let us down and make the right choice (Ocean).

Obviously Toonami isn't a guarantee yet so we probably shouldn't get too excited, however this does seems to be the best hope the UK has had in a long time. Something I forgot to mention in the initial post was that after the launch of Toonami in France, Pierre was also quoted in the article as saying; “We want to expand to the rest of the world, and this launch in France is the first step in that expansion,”. This is very promising to hear and he seemd to have kept that promise in 2017 with the launch of Toonami Africa. Now we just have to wait and see what he does for the UK.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Danfun64 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:00 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
SX10 wrote:From what I understand the scripts aren't just copies of Funimation's, they're new translations which APPARENTLY are just about as faithful to the Japanese original as Funi's dub.
Well, Funimation's Kai scripts had some problems, mostly down to them switching translators a couple of times, dropping the Japanese attack names half-way through, and at least some of the translation being based on a rather flawed fansub.
Wait, this is the first I've heard of the Funi Kai scripts being partially based off of a fansub. Which fansub are you referring to, and do you have any evidence for this? Also all this time I thought the script was going to be based off of Funi Kai's script ALA Westwood Z with Funimation Z and to a far lesser extent Blue Water Dragon Ball with Funimation Dragon Ball.
SX10 wrote:I hear the new score is similar to DC animated shows
New score? I was under the impression that Ocean Kai was getting the Megaman/Monster Rancher/DBZ Westwood Boo Saga music again.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:43 pm

Danfun64 wrote: New score? I was under the impression that Ocean Kai was getting the Megaman/Monster Rancher/DBZ Westwood Boo Saga music again.
The production company that did the music is run by Tom Keenlyside and John Mitchell, they're the same guys who created the tracks used in Megaman & DBZ but they've made music for lots of shows. There's no reason to assume it would be the exact same music as before.

I don't think they would need to use the same scripts as Funimation this time. The reason they did so before was partly due to the Japanese version being unavailable to Funi (and thus unavailable to Ocean) as well as the Cartoon Network's schedule not providing enough time to develop a script from scratch, the Z dub was revived quite abruptly with little preperation. Kai had preperation time just like the Blue Water dub of GT so they're bound to use their own scripts. Maybe they'll be a few lines that are the same but I doubt it'll be to the same extent as the Westwood dub.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MR.Mark » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:54 pm

A darker take kinda strikes me as odd though, as whether you agree with some of Funi's script adaptions for kai or not, the tone of what Dragon ball is supposed to be was keep intact.

Didn't Sean once say this dub added cartoony sound effects? Yet now I'm hearing a darker take, which is it? :wtf:

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:57 pm

Danfun64 wrote:Wait, this is the first I've heard of the Funi Kai scripts being partially based off of a fansub. Which fansub are you referring to, and do you have any evidence for this? Also all this time I thought the script was going to be based off of Funi Kai's script ALA Westwood Z with Funimation Z
I'm not an expert on this subject, but from what I remember, there are a few episodes with translation errors that are exactly the same as a few Kai fansubs. IIRC it goes further than this, with the episodes containing those translation errors also having a ton of lines that are identical to that fansub.
Puto might be able to give a more detailed explanation of this.
Danfun64 wrote:and to a far lesser extent Blue Water Dragon Ball with Funimation Dragon Ball.
Eh, not really. Blue Water seem to have been given the same re-translated half-nonsense scripts as Funimation were given, which Blue Water then adapted into usable English. The result is some lines are the same(Probably the ones that needed the least adjustment to be proper English), while others are entirely different(The points where the script adaptors gave up and just came up with new dialogue; two sets of script adaptors = two different replacement lines).
Danfun64 wrote:New score? I was under the impression that Ocean Kai was getting the Megaman/Monster Rancher/DBZ Westwood Boo Saga music again.
Westwood DBZ had a score composed by John Mitchell and Tom Keenlyside. Due to budget and time constraints, they weren't able to compose many new tracks, so most of the music for Westwood Z was initially recycled from music those two had composed those other two shows Ocean were involved in. Later on, in the Boo arc, the budget went up, and they started composing more tracks, although it was still fairly low budget, and largely reused stuff.

This time around, it's the same guys, but they're tossing aside any track reuse, and composing new stuff entirely.
Aside from the fact some reused tracks got a little tiring, I quite liked Westwood Z's soundtrack, so giving those same guys a proper budget, and enough time to compose a full, proper score is definitely a win in my book. :)
MR.Mark wrote:A darker take kinda strikes me as odd though, as whether you agree with some of Funi's script adaptions for kai or not, the tone of what Dragon ball is supposed to be was keep intact.
Apparently one of the other actors did say he disagrees with the one who said it's darker.
MR.Mark wrote:Didn't Sean once say this dub added cartoony sound effects? Yet now I'm hearing a darker take, which is it? :wtf:
I don't know why that quote is on the LostMedia wiki page; he was clearly talking about the Saban and Westwood Ocean dubs. At that point, Ocean Kai probably hadn't even been fully cast yet!
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MR.Mark » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:02 pm

Also hearing about Funi using fansubs for Kai's scripts? I've never heard about that until this thread, last I checked they used the manga as inspiration for there translations.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by NitroEX » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:08 pm

MR.Mark wrote:A darker take kinda strikes me as odd though, as whether you agree with some of Funi's script adaptions for kai or not, the tone of what Dragon ball is supposed to be was keep intact.

Didn't Sean once say this dub added cartoony sound effects? Yet now I'm hearing a darker take, which is it? :wtf:
If you've seen many Ocean dubs in the past, quite a few of the more kid friendly ones contain additional sound design on top of the Japanese track, the Pioneer movie dubs are an example of this as are the Westwood and Blue Water dubs. Frankly, I think Schemmel was exaggerating with his remarks about the sound effects being as bad as they are, he was probably still salty that another dub was being made to contend with his, plus, how much of the dub could he have realistically seen in 2010? I doubt he saw enough to properly judge the entire dub's sound design and music.

The "darker tone" remark was probably just referring to the music, but like with Schemmel, the actors wouldn't have seen too much of the dub beyond the scenes they were in so I'm not sure how accurate their review would really be.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by MR.Mark » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:11 pm

I don't agree with it either way, especially if the added sound effects or replacement score changes the tone of the material in a dramatic way.

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