Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.
8000 Saiyan wrote:You have some good points there.
Thank you.
Any counterpoints?
I don't think so.
Robo4900 wrote:*I mean, let's face it, while it has its fans, almost everyone is just indifferent to the Bang Zoom dub, provided Funimation still gets to air in the US, which it always will. Ocean, people are also probably mostly just indifferent to, but it definitely has a lot of fans(Rock The Dragon DVD set, anyone?), but loads of US "Fans" have some weird hate boner for it for some reason, and they seem to be determined to say that anyone who doesn't hate the Ocean dub is wrong somhow... But despite the fact the Ocean dub has this opposition, it does definitely have a lot of fans, otherwise why would the Rock The Dragon set have ever happened in the first place? The hate often tends to drown out the love online, because that's how the internet works, and honestly, a lot of the time, it's how life works; hate is louder than love, but there is an audience for the Ocean dub, because most people don't care. See the above paragraph.
Because to those people, the Funimation dub is the only dub that matters and any other dub that exists is bad. I think that's a load of bullshit. The Ocean dub MATTERS a lot. A lot of people got into this amazing series because of it.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Because to those people, the Funimation dub is the only dub that matters and any other dub that exists is bad. I think that's a load of bullshit. The Ocean dub MATTERS a lot. A lot of people got into this amazing series because of it.
Indeed. And honestly, although they're very vocal, that lot are such an insignificant minority, they're hardly worth paying attention to -- particularly as far as UK broadcasting is concerned.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Because to those people, the Funimation dub is the only dub that matters and any other dub that exists is bad. I think that's a load of bullshit. The Ocean dub MATTERS a lot. A lot of people got into this amazing series because of it.
Indeed. And honestly, although they're very vocal, that lot are such an insignificant minority, they're hardly worth paying attention to -- particularly as far as UK broadcasting is concerned.
The Funimation dub fans should also realize something: that not everyone thinks that Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat are the definitive English voices for Goku and Vegeta.
Another thing I don't understand about some Funimation voice actors is how they criticize the Ocean dub for having cartoony voices, although the Funimation dub had some cartoony voices there as well. Makes me believe that these people have something against Canadian voice actors.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Because to those people, the Funimation dub is the only dub that matters and any other dub that exists is bad. I think that's a load of bullshit. The Ocean dub MATTERS a lot. A lot of people got into this amazing series because of it.
Indeed. And honestly, although they're very vocal, that lot are such an insignificant minority, they're hardly worth paying attention to -- particularly as far as UK broadcasting is concerned.
The Funimation dub fans should also realize something: that not everyone thinks that Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat are the definitive English voices for Goku and Vegeta.
Not only that but the inclusion of an Ocean Freeza saga (which has never happened before) means we'd get to hear classic actors like Drummond get their first shot at some fairly iconic scenes like Vegeta's death and first meeting Goku as a super saiyan, which would be just incredible to see.
And I have full faith in Richard Ian Cox to give us a fantastic Goku if given quality direction. For me it would be tough to beat Schemmel, but a close second English voice for the character over the course of a full series would be nice.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Another thing I don't understand about some Funimation voice actors is how they criticize the Ocean dub for having cartoony voices, although the Funimation dub had some cartoony voices there as well. Makes me believe that these people have something against Canadian voice actors.
Me neither. I don't see the Ocean dub actors as that much more cartoony than Funimation. Both have their fair share and cartoony is fine if its well executed and doesn't feel forced.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
90sDBZ wrote:
Fair enough, but where's the proof that Ocean does any better here? Until we have some actual numbers to compare such as ratings on an even playing field, or sales figures between the UK Orange Bricks and a hypothetical UK Ocean dub home release then the situation remains ambiguous and there's no way to know which dub is more popular here.
Even that wouldn't be a fair comparison because the UK market has already been flooded with Funi's orange bricks for quite some time now. The next release will inevitably sell less simply because of the fact that it's not the first out of the gate.
In my opinion, only TV Ratings for both dubs on the same channel (or around the same time period) would be an accurate gauge of the popularity of each cast (either that or the ticket sales for a hypothetical film screening of the same thing with the choice of two different dubs... but that'll never happen). If the alleged conversation Subzero Ice had with someone at Turner is to be believed, the Ocean dub apparently did do better ratings wise. To anyone interested in trying to verify that claim for yourself, your best bet would be Richard Kilgarriff who was previously in charge of CNX and other Turner channels back in 2002. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have the answers himself but he has said that "I think I know who might" so if pressed further on it he might find you an answer.
90sDBZ wrote:
Fair enough, but where's the proof that Ocean does any better here? Until we have some actual numbers to compare such as ratings on an even playing field, or sales figures between the UK Orange Bricks and a hypothetical UK Ocean dub home release then the situation remains ambiguous and there's no way to know which dub is more popular here.
Even that wouldn't be a fair comparison because the UK market has already been flooded with Funi's orange bricks for quite some time now. The next release will inevitably sell less simply because of the fact that it's not the first out of the gate.
In my opinion, only TV Ratings for both dubs on the same channel (or around the same time period) would be an accurate gauge of the popularity of each cast (either that or the ticket sales for a hypothetical film screening of the same thing with the choice of two different dubs... but that'll never happen). If the alleged conversation Subzero Ice had with someone at Turner is to be believed, the Ocean dub apparently did do better ratings wise. To anyone interested in trying to verify that claim for yourself, your best bet would be Richard Kilgarriff who was previously in charge of CNX and other Turner channels back in 2002. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have the answers himself but he has said that "I think I know who might" so if pressed further on it he might find you an answer.
I agree that an Ocean home release would be at a disadvantage at this point in the game and it wouldn't be a fair comparison. Had they come out at roughly the same time then that would be a different story.
One thing Subzero Ice didn't specify was at what point the Ocean dub supposedly did better. He didn't actually say ratings immediately improved after CNX switched back. For all we know he could have been referring to the later Toonami UK channel reruns which would naturally have done better due to the channel being more popular and back in the kids section. The closest thing we could get to a reliable comparison would be to look at the series on the whole over the years it aired on CN UK, CNX, and Toonami UK, i.e. comparing the ratings of the Funi dubbed episodes 54-107 to the ratings for the rest of Z which was Ocean dubbed, rather than just looking at that brief CNX incident. And even then there's the factor of more people tuning into certain story arcs for other reasons.
Although the fact that the guy in charge of CNX doesn't even remember the reason for the switch doesn't exactly scream fan backlash. Needless to say I'll be very interested to hear from this other source if they can finally shed some light.
Regarding SubZero Ice's alleged conversation with someone at Turner I'd be willing to take certain things he says with a grain of salt. I don't doubt he has connections, after all he did predict the inaccuracy of TOEI's announcement for Kai's UK airdate but he didn't foresee the Funimation dub being broadcast although he did seem pretty confident it would be the Ocean dub, so clearly some details about what happened behind the scenes when Kai was being licensed for the UK were kept from him.
It would be interesting to hear from Richard Kilgarriff's contact about the "which dub did better" debate though. I'm considering pressing him further on the matter.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
Although the fact that the guy in charge of CNX doesn't even remember the reason for the switch doesn't exactly scream fan backlash. Needless to say I'll be very interested to hear from this other source if they can finally shed some light.
He was also in charge of UK's Cartoon Network and Boomerang so he would've had a lot of other things to deal with, for all we know he probably had people working under him to handle fan mail or dub acquisition. It was also many years ago now and these people aren't exactly fans of the show, I think it's expected that they'd forget details like this.
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:- This morning they appointed Marni Shulman as the head of the channel. She previously worked for Shomi, a now defunct Canada-only streaming service that wasn't exactly a top choice for anime fans.
She was asked about Kai on Twitter, and said she'd look into it. I recommend you guys at least "like" her Tweet. If you send anything to her (though, I recommend not Tweeting anything because I'm afraid she might not appreciate the mention spam lol), I implore you to be polite.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Another thing I don't understand about some Funimation voice actors is how they criticize the Ocean dub for having cartoony voices, although the Funimation dub had some cartoony voices there as well. Makes me believe that these people have something against Canadian voice actors.
It's not just some of Funimation's cast that have said things like that. Some of the people behind the NYAV Gundam dubs have called Ocean's work on the franchise "cheesy," despite those dubs all being played fairly close to the source material. The Blue Water stuff is ... not great voice acting wise, but even then, G Gundam fits the tone.
"I like the money it brings in, but Dragon Ball Heroes is the worst. That's actually the real reason I decided to start working on new material. I was afraid Bandai would make something irredeemably stupid like Super Saiyan 4 Broly." - Akira Toriyama, made up interview, 2013.
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I'm bolding this because it's not unimportant:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:- This morning they appointed Marni Shulman as the head of the channel. She previously worked for Shomi, a now defunct Canada-only streaming service that wasn't exactly a top choice for anime fans.
She was asked about Kai on Twitter, and said she'd look into it. I recommend you guys at least "like" her Tweet. If you send anything to her (though, I recommend not Tweeting anything because I'm afraid she might not appreciate the mention spam lol), I implore you to be polite.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Another thing I don't understand about some Funimation voice actors is how they criticize the Ocean dub for having cartoony voices, although the Funimation dub had some cartoony voices there as well. Makes me believe that these people have something against Canadian voice actors.
It's not just some of Funimation's cast that have said things like that. Some of the people behind the NYAV Gundam dubs have called Ocean's work on the franchise "cheesy," despite those dubs all being played fairly close to the source material. The Blue Water stuff is ... not great voice acting wise, but even then, G Gundam fits the tone.
I made a mistake there. What I meant was that some fans of the Funimation dub complain about Ocean having cartoony voices.
Even if the Ocean Gundam dubs have some cheesy moments here and there, there are some good voice acting performances in those dubs. All they need is less stiffer scripts.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.
I normally dont believe in Signatures but it would be PRIME TIME for a WOW Kai Petition!
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
It's a relief that Ocean Kai will be considered. I liked the Tweet, and I'm going to pass this on to Lee Tockar so he can spread the word to fellow voice actors. It would be just amazing if WOW can finally get this dub out the door and a whole new generation of Canadian kids can have another (hopefully) fantastic dub of Dragon Ball to grow up on, and of course kill the curiosity of nerds like us
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I'm bolding this because it's not unimportant:
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:- This morning they appointed Marni Shulman as the head of the channel. She previously worked for Shomi, a now defunct Canada-only streaming service that wasn't exactly a top choice for anime fans.
She was asked about Kai on Twitter, and said she'd look into it. I recommend you guys at least "like" her Tweet. If you send anything to her (though, I recommend not Tweeting anything because I'm afraid she might not appreciate the mention spam lol), I implore you to be polite.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Another thing I don't understand about some Funimation voice actors is how they criticize the Ocean dub for having cartoony voices, although the Funimation dub had some cartoony voices there as well. Makes me believe that these people have something against Canadian voice actors.
It's not just some of Funimation's cast that have said things like that. Some of the people behind the NYAV Gundam dubs have called Ocean's work on the franchise "cheesy," despite those dubs all being played fairly close to the source material. The Blue Water stuff is ... not great voice acting wise, but even then, G Gundam fits the tone.
I made a mistake there. What I meant was that some fans of the Funimation dub complain about Ocean having cartoony voices.
Even if the Ocean Gundam dubs have some cheesy moments here and there, there are some good voice acting performances in those dubs. All they need is less stiffer scripts.
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:She was asked about Kai on Twitter, and said she'd look into it. I recommend you guys at least "like" her Tweet. If you send anything to her (though, I recommend not Tweeting anything because I'm afraid she might not appreciate the mention spam lol), I implore you to be polite.
Holy crap holy crap holy crap holy crap!!
Guys, this is it! Like the Tweet! Say how excited you are for Kai! This may be our last chance to show we want this out there! Do it!
(But yeah, be polite and nice about it)
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
sangofe wrote:Someone should link her arian's petition.
Very good suggestion, Sangofe! It's just been done.
Was the hate for Kai largely unjustified?
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:It's an edited, cynically produced, cheap recut with a poorly utilized ancient score and awful scene recreations that later got traded in for a weird green tint.
The story of Kai's production is far more interesting than the actual product.
Danfun64 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:40 pm
Screw Corus and it's monopoly. It should sell off the Nick, Disney, and CN assets at minimum.
There is no reason for Toei to decline this, surely. Like whenever they didn't option it to Kix, as mega disappointing, baffling and upsetting as it was, I KINDA understand why.
But for a proper Canadian homecoming? With Cancon laws and a finished product? This is a no brainier. Hnnnggggg!!! It needs to happen.
"Four eyes, ever had four black eyes?" -- Brian Drummond's Vegeta
SX10 wrote:There is no reason for Toei to decline this, surely. Like whenever they didn't option it to Kix, as mega disappointing, baffling and upsetting as it was, I KINDA understand why.
But for a proper Canadian homecoming? With Cancon laws and a finished product? This is a no brainier. Hnnnggggg!!! It needs to happen.
Well, she could always contact Ocean, get directed to the distributor who owns Ocean Kai, and talk to them directly about this.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.