Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[TheBlackPaladin]

Didn't Ocean do the edits for the Nicktoons broadcast of Kai?

That's right, they did. I've got to wonder if it was part of some sort of deal.

It makes sense. Since FUNimation has had the home video distribution rights for the Dragon Ball animes--and likely will for quite some time--I never had any reason to suspect that the Ocean dub of Kai would be anything other than a TV-only dub. After all, the Westwood dub of DBZ and the Blue Water dubs of DB and GT were TV-only dubs as well, so it would be following a historical precedent.

My guess is, since Ocean knew from the beginning that their dub was were going to be a TV-only dub, and FUNimation needed an edited version of Kai to air on Nicktoons, perhaps they hired Ocean to make the edits. It would have been mutually beneficial for all involved. That way, FUNimation would have an edited version ready to present to Nicktoons, and Ocean would actually be receiving money for carrying out the edits that they needed to carry out anyway in order to get their dub on TV. In other words, Ocean already had to do the edits no matter what, but rather than losing money by hiring the editors, FUNimation offered to fund the editors themselves in exchange for being allowed to use the edited footage for the Nicktoons airing.

Also, now that I'm thinking about it...Sean Schemmel, in his reply to Subzero Ice's post, was the first one to reveal that the Ocean dub of Kai would have replaced music and SFX (specifically mentioning an instance that he felt was needlessly over-the-top where they added in a "whoosh" sound as Bulma turned her head). For a while, I was wondering how he would have even heard this. I mean, it's obvious how he would have learned about it, he probably learned about it in a casual conversation with Chris Sabat, Justin Cook, or a FUNimation exec higher up on the food chain. He did, after all, ask Subzero Ice how he know about the Ocean dub as it was still supposed to be, to use his words, "strictly internal FUNimation info" at that point...but how could he have heard it, and specifically known about the "whoosh"?

Well, I think we just found our answer to that. If FUNimation hired Ocean to do the edits in exchange for being allowed to use the footage, Ocean would then have to send back their edited footage to FUNimation. So that's probably how Schemmel heard it.

[SX10]

That's a fascinating analysis, TheBlackPaladin! I suspect that would be highly accurate. Although, it would be a real shame if we couldn't get this dub released on blu-ray somehow, hopefully Funimation help with that. If they do, their version will have to have finished airing completely, including Final Chapters most likely. Who knows?!

There's so much about this I wish I could get knowledge on. Like, the score and the tone of it, and some more of the casting choices.

So very frustrating, because I believe Kix would have picked this product up here in the UK. If Toei didn't give them the option to air it, then how did they know of it's existence in the first place?

When Lee Tockar announced his role on Twitter again in November last year, he said that he would call his agent regarding other details. He did say he was finally allowed to announce it though. Then later in the conversation, he stated that he couldn't say where it would air yet and to follow him for the news. He said, "it IS coming…"

Would it do any good to e-mail certain Canadian stations expressing interest?

[eledoremassis02]

Maybe they have a deal with FUNimation that they cannot release their Kai until FUNimation's version was done. At the same time TOEI was working of Buu Kai (which was aimed for the foreign market) which could have pushed Ocean Kai even further because FUNimation would have to dub and that as well.

When did Drummond start openly taking about Kai? I'm thinking Buu Kai has delayed Ocean Kai and new NDA's had to be established as a result because there was more work to do (for Ocean and FUNi)

[TheBlackPaladin]

Would it do any good to e-mail certain Canadian stations expressing interest?

Alas...I'm not sure.

See, here's the thing. I thought about a petition, and I was even thisclose to suggesting on this forum that people email Canadian TV networks expressing interest. The problem, though, is that the dub hasn't been officially announced. The only way we know this dub is happening is because actors who should not have talked...talked. So asking for the Ocean dub would require revealing how we know about its existence, and that means pointing out actors who broke the rules. NDAs were broken left and right, and that can mean big trouble for actors. Actors are not supposed to break NDAs, and the consequences can be harsh if they do. Sometimes it's just a verbal scolding (ranging from mild to enraged), or other times it can get as bad as an actor being removed from the project, a company refusing to work with a particular actor again, or an actor's agent dropping them as a client.

For that matter, look at Kirby Morrow! When he revealed what he did about the casting of the Ocean dub and about him losing the part of Goku because he sounded "too cool," the host of the podcast that he revealed that on asked him if he should be revealing that info, to which he replied, "I didn't sign anything saying I can't talk about this." Either he did and forgot, or he got in trouble anyway. I don't know the specifics, but according to a Kanzenshuu podcast a while back, Kirbopher (a Kanzenshuuer who posts here) revealed that Morrow got in MAJOR trouble. It sounded bad. So if somebody who didn't even sign an NDA got in that much trouble, I can only imagine how much trouble the actors might get in if they were all pointed out.

While on the subject, let's take the actors out of the equation for a sec. It's considered professional business etiquette for a dubbing company to maintain secrecy in its negotiations with the original animation studio (Toei, in this case), TV networks, and other parties involved. A dubbing company, as per business protocol, will act like they have no idea what someone is talking about if someone asks them about an anime that they've acquired but haven't announced yet. Secrecy that isn't adhered to can mean lost business. It's quite possible that revelations that widespread might be legally considered a breach of contract for somebody, be it Ocean, the TV networks, the actors, etc. A breach of contract, or lost confidence from Toei in those parties being able to maintain confidentiality, may result in us never seeing the dub.

In other words, Toei or the TV networks that Ocean has approached may react to the leaked news by essentially saying a more properly-worded version of, "You TOLD somebody? Screw you, we're taking our business elsewhere, you can't be trusted!"

So, a petition, at least at this point, may do more harm than good.

But hey, I'll end this post on an optimistic note. One actor who revealed their presence in the Ocean dub fairly recently was immediately told by Ocean to take the comments down. The fact that they were told to do that immediately suggests that Ocean is still trying to reach out to TV networks and get this dub aired. After all, if they lost the rights to the dub or if they gave up on it for whatever reason, why would they be mad about an actor leaking their involvement? If they had given up, I'd have to imagine their response would be more akin to, "Screw it, talk all you want, it's not like this thing's gonna air anyway." So, grim though things look, there is still hope.

[SX10]

Maybe they have a deal with FUNimation that they cannot release their Kai until FUNimation's version was done. At the same time TOEI was working of Buu Kai (which was aimed for the foreign market) which could have pushed Ocean Kai even further because FUNimation would have to dub and that as well.

When did Drummond start openly taking about Kai? I'm thinking Buu Kai has delayed Ocean Kai and new NDA's had to be established as a result because there was more work to do (for Ocean and FUNi)

I don't remember when he started being open about his role in Kai, I do know it would have been 2014 and that he did state in an interview, "I do play that role . . ." so I think the present tense is important, because previously, near the end of 2013, he stated on Twitter that he had finished voicing a character he had been playing for years (we know who that is!). I think you're right about this, because Funimation will need an edited cut of the dub - I imagine Ocean will get to play that part once again. If they do, their version may have to hold off until the arc starts on TV or once the arc is finished completely.

See, here's the thing. I thought about a petition, and I was even this close to suggesting on this forum that people email Canadian TV networks expressing interest. The problem, though, is that the dub hasn't been officially announced. The only way we know this dub is happening is because actors who should not have talked...talked. So asking for the Ocean dub would require revealing how we know about its existence, and that means pointing out actors who broke the rules. NDAs were broken left and right, and that can mean big trouble for actors. Actors are not supposed to break NDAs, and the consequences can be harsh if they do. Sometimes it's just a verbal scolding (ranging from mild to enraged), or other times it can get as bad as an actor being removed from the project, a company refusing to work with a particular actor again, or an actor's agent dropping them as a client.

Good god! That's grim, but what's interesting here, is that even big names themselves are revealing less & less about the dub and not mentioning it at cons. It may come to getting something like like a petition worked out in time, if all else fails perhaps. But the actors would have to be talking about it openly, without any hope of air time. But as I stated, on mr Tockar's twitter, he was pretty confident that it IS coming and he was allowed to talk about it. His agent must have filled him in because he said he can't talk about when and where it will air or what makes their version different.

But hey, I'll end this post on an optimistic note. One actor who revealed their presence in the Ocean dub fairly recently was immediately told by Ocean to take the comments down. The fact that they were told to do that immediately suggests that Ocean is still trying to reach out to TV networks and get this dub aired. After all, if they lost the rights to the dub or if they gave up on it for whatever reason, why would they be mad about an actor leaking their involvement? If they had given up, I'd have to imagine their response would be more akin to, "Screw it, talk all you want, it's not like this thing's gonna air anyway." So, grim though things look, there is still hope.

I think so, if they weren't trying, they wouldn't care. So it seems to be continuing and to be honest, with everyone suddenly going hush on the matter again at this point, new NDA's must be back into effect for actors with ongoing roles. Too late for certain individual talents, that have acknowledged it's existence already, to claim it doesn't exist, but what else have they really given us on the whole project? Nada.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Soooo... World Trigger is getting dubbed by Toei and they seem to have commisioned Blue Water to do the actual dubbing.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32af4u

[NitroEX]

You sure it's Blue Water? I hear Cathy Weseluck as the white haired kid and the narrator sounds like Michael Dobson. Couldn't quite make out the others so maybe it's a cross production like Ocean Kai.

Anyway it is interesting that Toei would go directly to them, if that is indeed the case.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Then I guess its Ocean, what I'm sure its that its not from the USA.

[NitroEX]

Someone asked Richard Ian Cox about Kai recently. He dodged the question like a pro.
https://youtu.be/c2-n7l_v8nc?t=46m22s

[Lord Beerus]

Someone asked Richard Ian Cox about Kai recently. He dodged the question like a pro.
https://youtu.be/c2-n7l_v8nc?t=46m22s

Piccolo taught him well.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

So the dub exists but Ocean is having a hard time getting it on TV? Huh...well honestly, what's the point anymore?

[SX10]

I've been waiting for this Q&A haha! Will need to check it out when I can, later today.

In one of the guest announcement videos he was credited for his role as Goku, so I knew it had to come up. Once that peice of news leaked it spread like wildfire. A lot of people must think it was an official announcement.

Honestly, of course the dub is finished. It's been years. Surely they'll find some air time for it even if the whole thing has been difficult. So much effort shouldn't just go to waste. If they are dubbing "Final Chapters" then I'm alright with a slight delay for now.


Also - I've tried messaging Subzero Ice, but my messages keep getting stuck in my outbox

[linkdude20002001]

See, here's the thing. I thought about a petition, and I was even thisclose to suggesting on this forum that people email Canadian TV networks expressing interest. The problem, though, is that the dub hasn't been officially announced. The only way we know this dub is happening is because actors who should not have talked...talked. So asking for the Ocean dub would require revealing how we know about its existence, and that means pointing out actors who broke the rules. NDAs were broken left and right, and that can mean big trouble for actors. Actors are not supposed to break NDAs, and the consequences can be harsh if they do. Sometimes it's just a verbal scolding (ranging from mild to enraged), or other times it can get as bad as an actor being removed from the project, a company refusing to work with a particular actor again, or an actor's agent dropping them as a client.

I was thinking maybe make a petition to GET an Ocean dub of Kai, pretending we don't know about it already existing.

[TheBlackPaladin]

See, here's the thing. I thought about a petition, and I was even thisclose to suggesting on this forum that people email Canadian TV networks expressing interest. The problem, though, is that the dub hasn't been officially announced. The only way we know this dub is happening is because actors who should not have talked...talked. So asking for the Ocean dub would require revealing how we know about its existence, and that means pointing out actors who broke the rules. NDAs were broken left and right, and that can mean big trouble for actors. Actors are not supposed to break NDAs, and the consequences can be harsh if they do. Sometimes it's just a verbal scolding (ranging from mild to enraged), or other times it can get as bad as an actor being removed from the project, a company refusing to work with a particular actor again, or an actor's agent dropping them as a client.

I was thinking maybe make a petition to GET an Ocean dub of Kai, pretending we don't know about it already existing.

....................................That..............is a great idea, actually!

As long as we play dumb, I think a petition could totally work. Write away, I'd be happy to sign it!

[linkdude20002001]

^
I don't know how to make one! XD
But if we do make one, we can show how much desire there is for it and hopefully get them to do something with it. It might be good to mention that we'd like them to release the dub on home video if we can ever get them to "make an Ocean dub of Kai".

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, I think a home video release is a lost cause, because FUNimation has the home video rights on lockdown for the foreseeable future. Actually, the US and Canada were the first countries to get a home video release of their dub. Canada has had the FUNimation DVDs and Blu-rays in their stores from day 1. So if we ever wanted to see a home video release, that's up to FUNimation...and there are a mountain of obstacles that would have to be overcome to convince them to do that. Not impossible--they did release the "Rock the Dragon" box set, after all--but whereas a TV release of the Ocean dub is simply unlikely, a home video release--especially since they're not even done releasing their dub of Kai, with The Final Chapters still not released--means hell has frozen over.

Then again, Axl Rose and Slash just reconciled, so one could argue that it already has, right? How's that for a time-marker for how long it has taken for this dub has taken to be released? If only we could go back to 2010 and tell ourselves, "Guys, just to give you an idea, Axl and Slash will be friends again before this dub comes out!"

I've seen change.org used as a way of writing click-and-sign petitions. Yes, it's more well-known for its sponsored petitions for meaningful social improvement causes, but it can technically be used by anybody for anything. Once it gets made, I say some tweeting, with a specific hashtag, is in order. Even better if we could get one of the Ocean voice actors to get on board with it. This whole thing is a long shot, but far more unlikely things that nobody ever thought would happen have happened. So, never say never!

[NitroEX]

That idea just might work. I'd definitely be willing to help since I was pondering starting an Ocean kai petition myself not too long ago.

I do think it's worth mentioning that if you wanted to gain help from people outside the DB fandom it would probably be a mistake to rely solely on jargon like "Ocean dub" as your only descriptor. I do think Ocean dub should be included as something DB fans recognize but I'm hesitant to put that in the title or hashtag for instance as it might not be immediately apparent to the casual person what it actually is (at a glance). Maybe I'm thinking too much into it and it doesn't really matter either way but my approach (for the title at least) would be to either to go with "Canadian English dub" as that's easily understandable or instead going in the direction of petitioning for the original English actors to return. That second option is kind of shaky because we already know a lot of the older cast members aren't returning but it might be a more convincing hook for the average DBZ fan to get on board with. Obviously the actual description of the petition could help educate people on the jargon and give solid reasons why we want these actors to return but I think something like a title, which is the first thing people would see, is still pretty important.

A well written description that makes a good case for the dub is also pretty crucial. I'm not the best writer but I can help come up with a few important points that I think would help the petition's description. Dragon Ball fans are likely already going to know what it is going in so you've really got to try and convince the people who don't know much about it.

If you really wanted to go all out you could put together a small video with maybe a narration and montage of Ocean dub clips. That would probably be more effective than any description (if done right). I have all the Ocean dub material in DVDs and VHS recordings stored on my harddrive so I could give it a shot although I'm not sure what to do for the narration part. Graphics would be easy enough to put together so that's no problem.

Anyway those are just my immediate thoughts on it. Change.org does seem like a good place to put it but the majority of Dragon ball petitions don't seem to do so well, maybe that could change with this one though...

[UltimateHammerBro]

I've seen change.org used as a way of writing click-and-sign petitions. Yes, it's more well-known for its sponsored petitions for meaningful social improvement causes, but it can technically be used by anybody for anything.

That website has been useful for Dragon Ball-related petitions before. Heck, I'd say that 90% of the reasons BoG was aired in Spain was thanks to a change.org petition.

Maybe I'm thinking too much into it and it doesn't really matter either way but my approach (for the title at least) would be to either to go with "Canadian English dub" as that's easily understandable or instead going in the direction of petitioning for the original English actors to return. That second option is kind of shaky because we already know a lot of the older cast members aren't returning but it might be a more convincing hook for the average DBZ fan to get on board with. Obviously the actual description of the petition could help educate people on the jargon and give solid reasons why we want these actors to return but I think something like a title, which is the first thing people would see, is still pretty important.

That's pretty much what I was going to suggest. Make the title of the petition say something around the lines of "we want a DBZ Kai dub featuring the original English actors" and then use the description to briefly explain that it refers to the ones which worked in the "Ocean" and "Westwood" dubs.

[Azelf89]

I'm not so sure about about the whole idea...

On the one hand: Yeah, I think its a great idea having this petition, as it would show to companies like Funimation, Ocean, and Toei (and whoever else was behind the dub) that people WANT to see a brand new dub of Kai featuring many of the original Canadian voice actors.

On the other hand: I sort of have my doubts about it. Mainly with the part of us pretending like we don't know about it already existing, because honestly, I don't think we can really do that. Well I mean, we CAN, but it definitely wouldn't be easy. The reason why I say this is because with all these different voice actors (such as Scott Mcneil, Kirby Morrow, Cole Howard, etc...) basically confirming the existence of this dub (and their part in it as well), unless Ocean has been oblivious to all of this (which i'm pretty sure they aren't), I think its safe to assume that the people at Ocean are aware that many people know about the existence of this dub.

Again, I still think that the idea of having this petition is a great! Its just that, like I said before, I have my doubts about whether we can really pull off the whole "being oblivious to its existence" thing, and if it can be pulled off, it certainly wouldn't be easy.

[TheBlackPaladin]

On the other hand: I sort of have my doubts about it. Mainly with the part of us pretending like we don't know about it already existing, because honestly, I don't think we can really do that. Well I mean, we CAN, but it definitely wouldn't be easy. The reason why I say this is because with all these different voice actors (such as Scott Mcneil, Kirby Morrow, Cole Howard, etc...) basically confirming the existence of this dub (and their part in it as well), unless Ocean has been oblivious to all of this (which i'm pretty sure they aren't), I think its safe to assume that the people at Ocean are aware that many people know about the existence of this dub.

Again, I still think that the idea of having this petition is a great! Its just that, like I said before, I have my doubts about whether we can really pull off the whole "being oblivious to its existence" thing, and if it can be pulled off, it certainly wouldn't be easy.

That's a perfectly valid concern, and it was the exact reason I hesitated to suggest a petition. However, upon further reflection, my thought is that if we play dumb by pretending we don't know about its production and don't name anybody in particular, nobody will be implicated. It would be different if we had only one person talking about this dub, because Ocean could then point out the culprit immediately. That's not the case though...we've had TONS of people talking about this dub. Heck, the first named person (as in the first person other than Subzero Ice) to acknowledge this dub was Sean Schemmel, who is not even directly involved.

So, that's a perfectly logical concern, but I think we can pull it off.