Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[8000 Saiyan]

Ian actually said in an interview that if he had known about Kai, he would have considered reprising Goku.

[MasenkoHA]

That's even more disappointing....

Then I would REALLY need to watch Ocean Kai if he had

[Robo4900]

If only the Kai dub will ever the see the light of day or even an accidental leak.

Wow Unlimited seem to be on the path to get it airing in Canada, and I'm sure many people will cap it and put it online in the best quality possible.

but it would have been nice to have Drummond, Henderson,and Mcneil back.

You probably know this, but they are. We just have to wait for it to air.

I thought the principle players mostly improved when they did the 05 redub of the first 67 episodes its just a pity for the most part they go back to be shoddy. But even listening to Sabat's Piccolo during the Buu saga in Z vs Kai is such an amazing world of difference.

And even the remastered dub as a whole just feels so fundamentally broken you have Schemmel doing well enough for two seasons and then suddenly sucking in season 3 since he never bothered to rerecord his lines like Sabat appeared to.

The problem with the '05 redub is that the direction was poor, and you still had all the weak links who hadn't been recast yet.

The Remastered dub was a total mess. They should have either just done the '05 redub of 1-67 and left the rest alone, or put it off for a few years and done a full redub of the entire run from the ground up with new scripts, to go with their new "Remastered" visuals. The way they ended up doing it was half-arsed at best. And yeah, I know the actors put in a lot of work, and sure, many of them gave good performances, but the direction lead to them not emoting to any reasonable degree, the scripts still sucked, and several cast members were very clearly in need of recasting.

I just wish the Ocean cast would have at least been able to finish the Freeza saga. Instead we had at the time inexperience no talent cast doing what they though the Ocean dub would sound like I guess.

A bunch of cell phones going off on vibrate vs SNES music

Haha. Not entirely inaccurate.
Though I would've gone with phones going off on vibrate vs Mega Drive music, since Mega Drives used that one sound chip of rather limited sound capabilities that, while it has its charm, served its purpose, and has a lot of fans, it grates on some people.

Still, metaphor aside, given the way nostalgia often enters into it, with both sides gaining a lot of favour from it, I think saying they're on the same level is a fair assessment, if you want to be reasonably objective.

[MasenkoHA]

The problem with the '05 redub is that the direction was poor, and you still had all the weak links who hadn't been recast yet.

The Remastered dub was a total mess. They should have either just done the '05 redub of 1-67 and left the rest alone, or put it off for a few years and done a full redub of the entire run from the ground up with new scripts, to go with their new "Remastered" visuals. The way they ended up doing it was half-arsed at best. And yeah, I know the actors put in a lot of work, and sure, many of them gave good performances, but the direction lead to them not emoting to any reasonable degree, the scripts still sucked, and several cast members were very clearly in need of recasting.

From what I seen the redub of the first 67 episodes pulled a Dragon Ball First 13 re-dub where they more or less used the same scripts as the old dub (where they could) with miniscule differences (dropping the more overt case of censorship). I wouldn't mind a complete redub of Dragon Ball Z with the Kai Funi cast with completely accurate scripts and the Japanese music intact (the remastered dub with the Japanese score sounds so awkward like it was clearly made for the Johnson/Falcouner music) but it's incredibly doubtful Funi would ever bother.

Actually honestly I REALLY wish Pioneer had taken over dubbing after the show got big on Toonami and dubbed it like they did the first 3 movies with the Ocean cast but the Japanese music and script intact.

Though I would've gone with phones going off on vibrate vs Mega Drive music, since Mega Drives used that one sound chip of rather limited sound capabilities that, while it has its charm, served its purpose, and has a lot of fans, it grates on some people.

I know a lot of people mock the Westwood dub for recycling Megaman music but honestly I never mind when the Digimon dub reused Masked Rider music, I didn't even know it did until years later.

[Nia]

Actually honestly I REALLY wish Pioneer had taken over dubbing after the show got big on Toonami and dubbed it like they did the first 3 movies with the Ocean cast but the Japanese music and script intact.

Ah, the dub that could have been... it's beautiful in my mind. If Ocean Kai can finally air, and be even half of what I imagine a full-on Pioneer dub would have been, it'd be pretty fantastic.

...Hell, at this point, I'd simply be content with hearing Scott McNeil say "Makankosappo."

[G1Ravage]

After not having visited this thread since September, I noticed it was on top of the forum, so I jumped in right where I left off...and noticed I was now around 50 pages behind.

"Holy cow!", I thought to myself. "With so much activity, there MUST be some news!"

Okay, so there was some social media chat with a TV executive regarding interest in Kai. But other than that, I feel a little let down. lol

[Cure Dragon 255]

I feel the same way my friend. I KNOW THE FEELING!

[Scsigs]

I thought the principle players mostly improved when they did the 05 redub of the first 67 episodes its just a pity for the most part they go back to be shoddy. But even listening to Sabat's Piccolo during the Buu saga in Z vs Kai is such an amazing world of difference.

And even the remastered dub as a whole just feels so fundamentally broken you have Schemmel doing well enough for two seasons and then suddenly sucking in season 3 since he never bothered to rerecord his lines like Sabat appeared to.

The problem with the '05 redub is that the direction was poor, and you still had all the weak links who hadn't been recast yet.

The Remastered dub was a total mess. They should have either just done the '05 redub of 1-67 and left the rest alone, or put it off for a few years and done a full redub of the entire run from the ground up with new scripts, to go with their new "Remastered" visuals. The way they ended up doing it was half-arsed at best. And yeah, I know the actors put in a lot of work, and sure, many of them gave good performances, but the direction lead to them not emoting to any reasonable degree, the scripts still sucked, and several cast members were very clearly in need of recasting.

What they should've done was put funds towards redubbing the entire series with a more faithful script, like what they'd eventually do with Kai, then throw the older, shitty, dub on as a separate track for the nostalgia brats. The majority of those people watch the old dub with the Bruce Falconer score anyways, so it's not like anyone would care if that dub was mixed with the Japanese music & the redub would be mixed with the original dub's score. Everyone would be happy. Hell, they have 2 dubs on the releases for Akira & Escaflowne to appease fans of both dubs. DBZ has made so much money in the merchandising that I think that they could fund a redub & an actual remaster for future releases. A Kai-level redub is something I think only hardcore original Z dub fans wouldn't want at this point. The original dub has aged extremely poorly & Kai's dub is only helping those who don't like that dub.

Schemmel's not rerecording his dialogue is apparently a result of him not being available when they were rerecording things for the remastered DVDs, from what I've read. Personally, I think he should've recorded way passed season 3 as well, since his delivery is just not good outside of his screams in the Buu Saga. Yeah. By then, he'd moved to NYC, which is why he was involved, oddly enough, with 4Kids & NYAV Post, which shows if you check his list of acting credits from 2004-2010. He came back to voice Goku in the video games & the Z movies, but other than those, he wasn't at FUNi doing any other voice roles. However, since he regularly records Super from California, he'd most likely be fully available to record a new Z dub if they did it.

[MasenkoHA]

What they should've done was put funds towards redubbing the entire series with a more faithful script, like what they'd eventually do with Kai, then throw the older, shitty, dub on as a separate track for the nostalgia brats.

They should have completely redubbed all 291 episodes as faithfully as possible with the Japanese script and music and then just released the Broadcast dub (that is the 53 edited episodes with the Ocean cast and Wasserman score that then transitions to the Funi in-house dub with the Faulconer score) in a few boxsets.

As is Kai is the only way I'll watch the Funimation dub now.

The original dub has aged extremely poorly

That's right boys, Mondo Cool!

Schemmel's not rerecording his dialogue is apparently a result of him not being available when they were rerecording things for the remastered DVDs, from what I've read.

That's unfortunate. It rendered the whole point of remastering the dub useless when we have Schemmel going from a capable performance to being unable to deliver a single line like he isn't in a bad live action Hong Kong dub. And I know Falcouner/Old Z dub fanboys are so stuck in their nostalgia they'll listen to Schemmel give an awful performance and still convince themselves its better than his Kai performance but it's just so hard to listen to until I want a good laugh.

Personally, I think he should've recorded way passed season 3 as well, since his delivery is just not good outside of his screams in the Buu Saga.

I thought he was alright but its been years since I bothered with the Z dub but he at least seemed to I dunno stop sucking around the 4th season? I don't think he started doing decent until 05 and didn't do AMAZING until Kai,

[8000 Saiyan]

And I know Falcouner/Old Z dub fanboys are so stuck in their nostalgia they'll listen to Schemmel give an awful performance and still convince themselves its better than his Kai performance but it's just so hard to listen to until I want a good laugh.

Now, now, let's not bash people who like the Funimation dub of Z and the Faulconer score too much. Robo rightly called me out on bashing a hypocritical guy.

[MasenkoHA]

And I know Falcouner/Old Z dub fanboys are so stuck in their nostalgia they'll listen to Schemmel give an awful performance and still convince themselves its better than his Kai performance but it's just so hard to listen to until I want a good laugh.

Now, now, let's not bash people who like the Funimation dub of Z and the Faulconer score too much. Robo rightly called me out on bashing a hypocritical guy.

Eh not here to bash people who like the Faulcouner score or enjoy the Funimation dub of Z I just find it irritating when fans try to say Sabat and Schemmel sounded better in Z than they did in Kai. I just emphasize Faulconer because that has more to do with the bias than the actual show itself at least from what I've seen.

I've seen an even smaller fans who admit Kai is better but they like the Faulconer score a lot better and wish Kai used it. Which, I don't agree with, but it's fine.

Heck I' don't even think people who prefer Nadolny over Henderson and Clinkenbeard are invalid, I just assume they know a lot of elementary school students with a 12 -pack a day cigarette addiction. Very common in some parts of the U.S I hear.

[Robo4900]

After not having visited this thread since September, I noticed it was on top of the forum, so I jumped in right where I left off...and noticed I was now around 50 pages behind.

"Holy cow!", I thought to myself. "With so much activity, there MUST be some news!"

Okay, so there was some social media chat with a TV executive regarding interest in Kai. But other than that, I feel a little let down. lol

It's more than that. She said she'd try to acquire it. She said she'd say something if there was anything in particular to say about it, and she hasn't said anything so far aside from saying all is going smoothly, so... Our chances are good.

From what I seen the redub of the first 67 episodes pulled a Dragon Ball First 13 re-dub where they more or less used the same scripts as the old dub (where they could) with miniscule differences (dropping the more overt case of censorship).

The situations are comparable, but entirely different.
DB 1-13's Ocean dub was actually pretty faithful. So while Funi's DB dub in general was a poorly-done, censored mess, at the very least, unlike "Ultimate Uncut", it was also reasonably faithfully translated. Kind of.

Meanwhile, Saban's DBZ deliberately had a ton of changes put in; despite the fact they did have access to decent translations, Funimation elected to adapt the hell out of the scripts to make them into what was eventually used. And while some of the more famous and complained-about changes(Scientist Bardock, "The next dimension", etc.) were rectified in the "Ultimate Uncut" dub, they didn't change much, and they basically never changed it into something accurate to the Japanese script; it would usually trade one nonsensical fluff line for another.

I wouldn't mind a complete redub of Dragon Ball Z with the Kai Funi cast with completely accurate scripts and the Japanese music intact (the remastered dub with the Japanese score sounds so awkward like it was clearly made for the Johnson/Falcouner music) but it's incredibly doubtful Funi would ever bother.

At this point, the time has passed.
It could have happened between 2005 and 2009, but they already did the Remastered dub. Now that they've done Kai, the chances of them doing a redub are already reduced to almost nothing, but with the existence of the Remastered dub, there's absolutely no chance in hell.

Actually honestly I REALLY wish Pioneer had taken over dubbing after the show got big on Toonami and dubbed it like they did the first 3 movies with the Ocean cast but the Japanese music and script intact.

That would've been great. But, in those days, Funimation were at their absolute peak of money-grubbing.

Though if the Saban run hadn't been cancelled back in '97, it's entirely possible a Pioneer series dub would have gone into production around '98/'99, as many people have theorised to have been the plan initially. I imagine it's something Pioneer would have done under Funimation, so Funi wouldn't have had to shell out for it, they may have even made money from it, so it would've worked out nicely for everyone involved.

IMO, this would have been pretty much perfect. Only way it could be better is if it started with the original series.

I know a lot of people mock the Westwood dub for recycling Megaman music but honestly I never mind when the Digimon dub reused Masked Rider music, I didn't even know it did until years later.

I've always thought people were unfair on the Westwood dub's music. Sure, it could get a little repetitive(Though I'd argue both Kai scores are pretty guilty of that too), but it wasn't bad music, it's only poorly-placed in a couple of sections that people always point out as examples of what the whole score is like, it generally gave the show a tone more reminiscent of the Japanese version(Much more chilled-out, with some really groovy bits), and as the show went on, more original tracks were put in(And the Monster Rancher music library was added during the Boo arc)...
It's not a bad score, and I have no idea how some people can praise Faulconer's score, but lambast the Westwood score.

What they should've done was put funds towards redubbing the entire series with a more faithful script, like what they'd eventually do with Kai, then throw the older, shitty, dub on as a separate track for the nostalgia brats. The majority of those people watch the old dub with the Bruce Falconer score anyways, so it's not like anyone would care if that dub was mixed with the Japanese music & the redub would be mixed with the original dub's score. Everyone would be happy. Hell, they have 2 dubs on the releases for Akira & Escaflowne to appease fans of both dubs. DBZ has made so much money in the merchandising that I think that they could fund a redub & an actual remaster for future releases. A Kai-level redub is something I think only hardcore original Z dub fans wouldn't want at this point. The original dub has aged extremely poorly & Kai's dub is only helping those who don't like that dub.

That's exactly what I was thinking.
A shame this will never happen; if they'd got things together and done this back in '06 or '07, it would have gained a ton of goodwill from fans, done a lot of good in terms of righting the wrongs of previous dubs, and the old dub would still be there for anyone who wants it.

If this had happened, I imagine Kai would probably have been assembled by reusing recordings from this hypothetical uncut dub. Whether that's good or bad is up to you, though I'd say it's entirely neutral. If the hypothetical uncut dub was well-done, then it would probably be just what we already got, but we'd have access to a longer version that covers the entirety of Z too, if we wanted. It'd be pretty cool.

[MasenkoHA]

The situations are comparable, but entirely different.
DB 1-13's Ocean dub was actually pretty faithful. So while Funi's DB dub in general was a poorly-done, censored mess, at the very least, unlike "Ultimate Uncut", it was also reasonably faithfully translated. Kind of.

Meh its still a case of Funi being to lazy to get more accrurate scripts in their uncut dubs for both. DB just already had closer to the source scripts to recycle. You have one uncut dub which still has censored dialog and another that’s technically uncut but has scripts that are way off.



.

That would've been great. But, in those days, Funimation were at their absolute peak of money-grubbing.

Though if the Saban run hadn't been cancelled back in '97, it's entirely possible a Pioneer series dub would have gone into production around '98/'99, as many people have theorised to have been the plan initially. I imagine it's something Pioneer would have done under Funimation, so Funi wouldn't have had to shell out for it, they may have even made money from it, so it would've worked out nicely for everyone involved.

Heck didnt the Pioneer movies basically have no involvement from Funimation other than allowing them to be released? There’s none of that 90s Funi touch and those movies were a nice taste of what the Z dub could have been

Not sure how those work but the DBZ Pioneer movies felt nothing like the Saban or In house Funi dub
but then Pioneer did those Sailor Moon movies where other than keeping the Japanese music for the dvds felt exactly like the tv dub valley girl slang and all.

..
It's not a bad score, and I have no idea how some people can praise Faulconer's score, but lambast the Westwood score.

I think its because it sounds more hardcore. Honestly between Wasserman and Johnson the Faulconer score is my least favorite US score.

[

[8000 Saiyan]

Yeah, a Pioneer dub of Z with the Ocean cast would have been awesome, but the Funimation Kai dub makes me glad that it didn't happen.

Funimation is a very overrated and overused company (I know someone here that doesn't mind hearing them over and over), but I'll always thank them for giving us Troy Baker, Laura Bailey, Kyle Hebert and Travis Willingham. Heck, their recent dubs ain't bad.

I just wish they hadn't dubbed Escaflowne, since Ocean could have improved. But like I said before, people just like underestimating Ocean as voice actors because they don't think people like Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, Saffron Henderson and many other guys from Ocean aren't as talented as "high-class thespians" like Sean Schemmel, Christopher Sabat, Colleen Clinkenbeard and the rest of the Dallas talent pool.

[Scsigs]

That's exactly what I was thinking.
A shame this will never happen; if they'd got things together and done this back in '06 or '07, it would have gained a ton of goodwill from fans, done a lot of good in terms of righting the wrongs of previous dubs, and the old dub would still be there for anyone who wants it.

If this had happened, I imagine Kai would probably have been assembled by reusing recordings from this hypothetical uncut dub. Whether that's good or bad is up to you, though I'd say it's entirely neutral. If the hypothetical uncut dub was well-done, then it would probably be just what we already got, but we'd have access to a longer version that covers the entirety of Z too, if we wanted. It'd be pretty cool.

That's where I feel you're wrong. The way Kai was edited, for Z if you were to use Kai's dialogue recordings, they would have to be slowed down & if they were to redub Z, then try to reuse the recordings for Kai, they'd have to speed up the recordings or cut out parts of the dialogue, meaning they'd have to do extensive editing to the recordings that would've been better if they'd just rerecorded the dialogue anyways. The main reason for the Japanese cast rerecording their dialogue for their dub of the show was because Toei junked the original audio recordings, but I feel they would've done it anyways because of the editing involved like I just said. On top of that, from what I've been able to gather, there are apparently changed lines that use the original animation even in the Japanese dub. Which ones, I can't say because I've only seen the Buu Saga from Z, especially in dub form, to really remember much from the original Z. Considering other dub studios also redubbed Kai rather than used their Z audio recordings, I don't think FUNi wouldn't have done the same. I mean, the first episode of Sailor Moon Crystal was almost verbatim the same as the first episode of the original show's, but Viz recorded new lines anyways for it, even though they were using the same cast from the original show's dub, since they're dubbed at the same time.

Yeah, a Pioneer dub of Z with the Ocean cast would have been awesome, but the Funimation Kai dub makes me glad that it didn't happen.

Funimation is a very overrated and overused company (I know someone here that doesn't mind hearing them over and over), but I'll always thank them for giving us Troy Baker, Laura Bailey, Kyle Hebert and Travis Willingham. Heck, their recent dubs ain't bad.

I just wish they hadn't dubbed Escaflowne, since Ocean could have improved. But like I said before, people just like underestimating Ocean as voice actors because they don't think people like Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, Saffron Henderson and many other guys from Ocean aren't as talented as "high-class thespians" like Sean Schemmel, Christopher Sabat, Colleen Clinkenbeard and the rest of the Dallas talent pool.

I mean, I understand, but I disagree. They're one of the biggest dubbing companies of North America next to Viz for a reason. They tend to handle their dubbing well, with castings, scripts, & releases. Considering they went from laughingstocks with the Z dub on the level of 4Kids, or maybe more appropriately Saban, to top-tier anime dubbing on the level of Ocean & Viz is a real accomplishment. Frankly, I'm surprised they weren't granted the license to Sailor Moon over Vz, considering their relationship with Toei. I get why they weren't handed One Piece's license at first, since Toei wanted a studio that could get them a TV deal regardless of the quality of the dub (which, I think we can all agree, backfired on them spectacularly) since 4Kids had previously done extremely well with marketing Pokemon & Yugioh, but that was 2003/4 when FUNi hadn't proven themselves capable of handling a property entirely faithfully. The tried to relicense Sailor Moon in 2013, where FUNi had proven themselves. I mean, I'm happy with Viz's redubbing of the series, but I'm still surprised FUNi didn't get it.

[8000 Saiyan]

Yeah, yeah, they can handle dubbing well as they've proven it many times, but they shouldn't be dubbing everything. And besides, I've heard this argument that the creation of the company added more diversity of dubbing casting options, but that isn't the case anymore since they dub most stuff nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate them.

[Scsigs]

Yeah, yeah, they can handle dubbing well as they've proven it many times, but they shouldn't be dubbing everything. And besides, I've heard this argument that the creation of the company added more diversity of dubbing casting options, but that isn't the case anymore since they dub most stuff nowadays.

Are they really dubbing everything? As far as I can tell, Viz is also dubbing a good amount of properties.

[8000 Saiyan]

Yeah, yeah, they can handle dubbing well as they've proven it many times, but they shouldn't be dubbing everything. And besides, I've heard this argument that the creation of the company added more diversity of dubbing casting options, but that isn't the case anymore since they dub most stuff nowadays.

Are they really dubbing everything? As far as I can tell, Viz is also dubbing a good amount of properties.

Yeah, but to the same extent as Funimation? I'm not sure about that.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Yeah, yeah, they can handle dubbing well as they've proven it many times, but they shouldn't be dubbing everything. And besides, I've heard this argument that the creation of the company added more diversity of dubbing casting options, but that isn't the case anymore since they dub most stuff nowadays.

Are they really dubbing everything? As far as I can tell, Viz is also dubbing a good amount of properties.

Funimation is far and away the largest anime distributor in North America. Right now, they're dubbing at least 20 different shows and that's just this season. Viz releases fewer than 10 shows a year and that's including Naruto, Jojo's, Hunter x Hunter and Sailor Moon. I'm pretty sure Sentai puts out more than them.

"Fandom" anime (aka, not little kid shows) dubbing has largely concentrated itself into three areas: the Dallas, Texas region (Funimation); the Houston, Texas area (Sentai); and Los Angeles (Viz, Aniplex, GKIDS, Sunrise, Netflix). There's been a lot of consilidation to those three over the years. In the past, Vancouver, Calgary and New York used to be big with a handful of other regions in the mix (North Carolina, Montreal, Toronto). Most current anime distributors are too cheap to pay union dubbing rates, so Canada is off limits. Most New York dubs were done by local publishers who've either shut down or scaled back operations drastically.

Ocean used to be Viz's go-to studio for years, but since the late 2000s they've gone LA-only. Outside of InuYasha: The Final Act, IIRC the last thing they sent Ocean (and Blue Water)'s way were Nana and the original Hunter x Hunter. That's a decade ago now.

[MasenkoHA]

I mean, the first episode of Sailor Moon Crystal was almost verbatim the same as the first episode of the original show's, but Viz recorded new lines anyways for it, even though they were using the same cast from the original show's dub, since they're dubbed at the same time.

Crystal was also a brand new show not a recut like Dragon Ball Kai and differences still existed between Crystal's first episode and the 92 anime's first episode.

. Considering they went from laughingstocks with the Z dub on the level of 4Kids, or maybe more appropriately Saban, to top-tier anime dubbing on the level of Ocean & Viz is a real accomplishment.

On level of 4KIDs in the 21st century. At the time I think 4KIDS had more respect when they were just known as the company that dubbed Pokemon. Because even with the dumb Americanization and skipping episodes the early Pokemon dub stayed fairly close to the Japanese script, retained some of the Pokemon voices, and kept about 50 percent of the music (which was more than most broadcast anime of the time) I don't think it was until Yu-Gi-oh that 4KIDS became infamous.

Even Saban their Digimon dub wasn't that bad. I felt it fared better than DBZ or Sailor Moon. Maybe on par with I dunno Funi's Dragon Ball dub?

But Digimon was also being dubbed when Saban seemed to be getting more ballsy (look at the Power Ranger seasons that were on at the time) when Saban was distributing DBZ and overseeing its censorship that was a much more wussier Saban.

I mean shoot by the late 90s/early 2000s Saban seemed to finally be okay with saying the word "die" and letting characters be killed (even if they had to use destroy in that regard)

since 4Kids had previously done extremely well with marketing Pokemon & Yugioh,

And let's be honest Pokemon and Yugioh were pretty much built in to succeed commercially. 4Kids didn't do anything special. They would have done well regardless as long as they didn't get crappy timeslots.

The tried to relicense Sailor Moon in 2013, where FUNi had proven themselves. I mean, I'm happy with Viz's redubbing of the series, but I'm still surprised FUNi didn't get it.

God I wish Funimation had gotten the license to Sailor Moon. The Viz dub is just so so bad imo. I mean faithful dub sure. But it's not a good product. IMHO obviously. Their Crystal dub seems okay but I despise Crystal so..