Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:01 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Well, Hiromi's voice never really changed throughout the series.
It did a little.
Still, the way one performer plays a character shouldn't mean any other take attempted by another performer is wrong. When you go to see Hamlet at the theatre, you don't expect to see someone doing an impression of David Tennant's rendition of the character, you expect to see a differen't actor's unique take on the character.

Ultimately, while many of the dub actors can take cues from how the Japanese actors played a given part, if doing something different would fit better for that actor playing to an English audience, then by all means, they should.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:03 pm

That's swell and all but not only is David Tennant not the ultimate performer for that play, but Dragon Ball is not a play. It doesnt have hundreds upon hundreds of different players over the years. I know the English dubs have indeed have many actors, but this is not how Dragon Ball should be. They should have consistency and so on. Also she's Canadian and Ocean, I thought you would eat her up...sorry if I'm assuming things about you.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

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90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:03 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:That's swell and all but not only is David Tennant not the ultimate performer for that play,
It was an example. Theatre isn't cheap, so I don't go all that often, particularly when it's something well-known enough that I could reference it online and safely assume people would understand what I'm referring to, thus Tennant as Hamlet was the only well-known one that came to mind. I was going to say something about Patrick Stewart, but none of his famous theatre roles came to mind when I was writing the post, so I presumed people would just accept my example and move on. :P
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:but Dragon Ball is not a play. It doesnt have hundreds upon hundreds of different players over the years. I know the English dubs have indeed have many actors, but this is not how Dragon Ball should be. They should have consistency and so on.
If you want consistency, you're in the wrong fandom, friend. :lol:

Ultimately, if one actor just impersonates what another actor is doing, then in my experience, you will without fail find that the impersonation is simply an inferior take that feels rather unsatisfying. Meanwhile, while an actor trying an entirely different take may take some getting used to if you're familiar with the other version, if you go into it with an open mind, you'll often find that the different take is, at the very least, enjoyable in its own right. Perhaps better than the one you were used to, but ultimately, if it's an entirely different take, it's just a matter of opinion.
So, as you say, the English dubs have many actors. This isn't something that can simply be swept under the rug; it has to be accepted, and the performers and casting directors involved have to just deal with it, as do the fans.
After all, if they couldn't get Don Brown back to do Kaio, would you really accept a voice of Kaio that's simply a cheap imitation of Don Brown's version, for the third time so far, or would you prefer someone trying something new with it?
(For reference: Funi and Blue Water are the previous impersonations of Brown, with Funi's still persisting to this day. Though I will admit the Blue Water VA's impression was pretty much as close as impressions get. Still pretty clearly not him, though)
Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Also she's Canadian and Ocean, I thought you would eat her up...sorry if I'm assuming things about you.
A large part of why I prefer the Ocean cast is that I simply find the Funimation approach to dubbing to deliver consistently under-acted and/or flat performances. Meanwhile, Ocean's voices seem a lot less afraid of hamming things up. Even when they're going far too over the top, it gives a far more entertaining turn than if they were simply not giving enough. Most of the rest is simply my nostalgia for the Ocean voices of Dragon Ball, but of course, that would only apply to the returning actors.
So, just because someone's a Canadian, Ocean actor doesn't mean I'll immediately fall in love with their performance without question. :lol:

No need to apologise; we're discussing preferences of English dub actors in a re-edited version of a goofy TV show we all grew up on, this is hardly something important enough to fret over to any real degree. So, no harm done. :)
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:34 pm

Robo is right that consistency is something that Dragon Ball isn't known for.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:26 am

Quality? Sure? English voice actors? YOU BET! Outside of that? Nozawa has been Goku all his life, Bulma's seiyuu literally had to die for her to be replaced, same with Roshi who seems to have lots of seiyuu nowadays which is the only character that has this "Inconsistency" you and Robo speak of. Even Yamcha has Tohru Furuya speaking for him despite the fact that Furuya is extremely expensive and Yamcha is a minor character. HECK! Poor Joji Yanami didnt die but was only replaced because he sounded like he was at death's door.

Same for Latin America. The ONE time they tried pulling that shit, with Kai, audiences rejected it so hard that an actress got harrased to the point where she swore never to do Dragon Ball again. The very few times actors had to be replaced they were chosen with the utmost care by Gloria "La Madrina" Rocha and they have not been replaced since.

So no, this "Inconsistency" has never been a thing outside of English DB.

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Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:52 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Quality? Sure? English voice actors? YOU BET! Outside of that? Nozawa has been Goku all his life, Bulma's seiyuu literally had to die for her to be replaced, same with Roshi who seems to have lots of seiyuu nowadays which is the only character that has this "Inconsistency" you and Robo speak of. Even Yamcha has Tohru Furuya speaking for him despite the fact that Furuya is extremely expensive and Yamcha is a minor character. HECK! Poor Joji Yanami didnt die but was only replaced because he sounded like he was at death's door.

Same for Latin America. The ONE time they tried pulling that shit, with Kai, audiences rejected it so hard that an actress got harrased to the point where she swore never to do Dragon Ball again. The very few times actors had to be replaced they were chosen with the utmost care by Gloria "La Madrina" Rocha and they have not been replaced since.

So no, this "Inconsistency" has never been a thing outside of English DB.

Where's Kunzait when you need him!
Some Ocean dubs tend to have some voice actors replaced, but those voice actors tend to leave because of reasons. Anime fans tend to disparage on Ocean because of that.
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:07 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:Quality? Sure? English voice actors? YOU BET! Outside of that? Nozawa has been Goku all his life, Bulma's seiyuu literally had to die for her to be replaced, same with Roshi who seems to have lots of seiyuu nowadays which is the only character that has this "Inconsistency" you and Robo speak of. Even Yamcha has Tohru Furuya speaking for him despite the fact that Furuya is extremely expensive and Yamcha is a minor character. HECK! Poor Joji Yanami didnt die but was only replaced because he sounded like he was at death's door.

Same for Latin America. The ONE time they tried pulling that shit, with Kai, audiences rejected it so hard that an actress got harrased to the point where she swore never to do Dragon Ball again. The very few times actors had to be replaced they were chosen with the utmost care by Gloria "La Madrina" Rocha and they have not been replaced since.

So no, this "Inconsistency" has never been a thing outside of English DB.

Where's Kunzait when you need him!
I wasn't just referring to the voice actors, since the voices is basically just a dub thing. Though, the inconsistency is incredibly bad on the dub-side; Ocean skipped 50 episodes, Funimation dubbed the first two seasons of Z about 6 years after the third, the Canadian/UK Dragon Ball and GT dubs had an entirely different cast from Z...

But, outside of dub voices, westerners have to deal with inconsistent home video releases, manga censorship, etc. And basically, unless you're watching the original three shows, from the Dragon Boxes, in Japanese, you'll be bumping into a lot of inconsistency.
Kai has a different pace, style, soundtrack, and older(Plus a few different) cast members from DB, and it looks very different; the Boo arc has yet another different soundtrack, and looks different to Kai 1.0; the music within Kai 1.0 itself probably changes if you're not using the most recent US release(The UK's Kai 1.0 release uses Yamamoto for season 1, and half of season 2); Super has an entirely diffrent style, and once again rather different music, and a very different look to Kai, and Trunks's hair changes colour in Super with no explanation...

Dragon Ball is pretty inconsistent in a lot of ways, really. The only time things are consistent is if you're watching the original way, but even then, you'll probably not be watching from the Dragon Boxes, so the visuals(And the audio quality, since the modern releases of Z use a higher quality copy of the Japanese audio than the DB or GT DVDs. Still crap, but less crap) will wildly differ, and that's without going into the inconsistent animation quality, and once you get into Z, the rather inconsistent pace of the Namek/Freeza arc.
And even if you do watch from the Dragon Boxes, the colours are all out of whack on an inconsistent basis, DB episode 52 has that weird issue with the top of the next frame being visible at the bottom of the current frame, a huge chunk of the middle of GT uses the old D2 tape master as the visuals for most of the opening theme... I could go on.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:43 am

The only thing Blue Water was good for was the scripting.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:55 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:The only thing Blue Water was good for was the scripting.
Image
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:13 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:The only thing Blue Water was good for was the scripting.
Image
One of the best responses ever.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:41 pm

Okay, I'll give Blue Water credit for giving good voices for Pan, Shenron and Gill in GT. And their dub for the original DB wasn't bad either.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:07 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Okay, I'll give Blue Water credit for giving good voices for Pan, Shenron and Gill in GT. And their dub for the original DB wasn't bad either.
I liked their Goku too, and the Evil Dragons, and Baby. And actually, I liked their Roshi, Tao, Commander Blue, Oolong, Pilaf, and Demon King Piccolo too.

Honestly, I think their voice cast was fine. Not many voices were huge revelations(If any), but the cast was generally just fine. You can point out specific bad voices, but taken as a whole, it was a decent cast overall. And the music and general tone of the original being retained, the superior scripts, etc. were all very nicely-done, and IMO, overall, their GT dub was pretty good. Their DB dub wasn't as good, since the scripts were a bit messy, a lot of cuts were inherited from AB Groupe's video masters, and due to the much larger number of characters, there were a lot more iffy castings, but it was still at least an okay dub.

Thing is, given just how bad Funi's GT dub was, though, Blue Water's GT is a godsend. :wink:

Cheap shots at Funi aside, though, I've always thought BW's GT was rather underappreciated; it represents the source material it's dubbing properly, in a way only the Pioneer dub had done before in Dragon Ball(Naturally, Pioneer did it infinitely better, but it only covered the movies), not just in terms of the script(Though that helps), but in terms of feel. The soundtrack helps, but the approach taken in the dubbing just feels like GT but in English. Again, Pioneer's dubs of the first three Z movies is the only time before Blue Water's GT that this had happened, really. It's just a shame GT wasn't done with the Vancouver cast. But, it is what it is. And what it is is pretty good. Perhaps not great, but pretty good, especially given what the other Dragon Ball dubs at the time were like.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:13 am

Robo4900 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:Okay, I'll give Blue Water credit for giving good voices for Pan, Shenron and Gill in GT. And their dub for the original DB wasn't bad either.
I liked their Goku too, and the Evil Dragons, and Baby. And actually, I liked their Roshi, Tao, Commander Blue, Oolong, Pilaf, and Demon King Piccolo too.

Honestly, I think their voice cast was fine. Not many voices were huge revelations(If any), but the cast was generally just fine. You can point out specific bad voices, but taken as a whole, it was a decent cast overall. And the music and general tone of the original being retained, the superior scripts, etc. were all very nicely-done, and IMO, overall, their GT dub was pretty good. Their DB dub wasn't as good, since the scripts were a bit messy, a lot of cuts were inherited from AB Groupe's video masters, and due to the much larger number of characters, there were a lot more iffy castings, but it was still at least an okay dub.

Thing is, given just how bad Funi's GT dub was, though, Blue Water's GT is a godsend. :wink:

Cheap shots at Funi aside, though, I've always thought BW's GT was rather underappreciated; it represents the source material it's dubbing properly, in a way only the Pioneer dub had done before in Dragon Ball(Naturally, Pioneer did it infinitely better, but it only covered the movies), not just in terms of the script(Though that helps), but in terms of feel. The soundtrack helps, but the approach taken in the dubbing just feels like GT but in English. Again, Pioneer's dubs of the first three Z movies is the only time before Blue Water's GT that this had happened, really. It's just a shame GT wasn't done with the Vancouver cast. But, it is what it is. And what it is is pretty good. Perhaps not great, but pretty good, especially given what the other Dragon Ball dubs at the time were like.
A shame indeed.
Robo4900 wrote:And on top of that... People say the Westwood dub was poorly directed, and had a lot of bad line delivery, but... I mean, compared to the Saban era, sure, the Westwood dub falls down, but compared to the Westwood dub, Funi's dub is in the dust.
Tenshinhan is equally bad in both, but the others are, well... Night and day.
Yeah, honestly, Burgmeier never left a big impression on me even in Kai. There are a lot of people who could do much better than him as Tien. Apparently, the guy is a musician as well as a voice actor. I bet his music is better than his voice acting.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:40 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:A shame indeed.
Indeed. Still, no point dwelling on missed opportunities like this.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Yeah, honestly, Burgmeier never left a big impression on me even in Kai. There are a lot of people who could do much better than him as Tien. Apparently, the guy is a musician as well as a voice actor. I bet his music is better than his voice acting.
Woah, dunno where you pulled that quote from, but that was a while ago. :lol:
I stand by it, though.

Honestly, I don't think it's fair to just lay judgements on Burgmeier; the directing in the old Funi dub was really bad. I'd argue worse than Westwood. Tons of bad actors in there, sure, but it's like Phantom Menace -- you can't really judge someone's acting ability when even Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson are bad.
(Yes, I know there's no one on the same tier as those three I mentioned in Funi's dub, but you know what I mean)
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:18 pm

I always thought the acting was bad in Funimation and the direction was at least consistent or had an idea of what it wanted the show to be. To say it was good is a stretch.

For me, in the early days of the Westwood dub, the direction was all over the place, it would break the illusion of the show. And I LOVE the cast y'know. Certainly the Fusion arc is really where they get their groove back and it's wonderful.

Without being too off topic I was wondering if anyone ever isolated the original pieces of music being made for the show during that time - the ones that were not recycled from Megaman or Monster Rancher. Recently got a hold of some of the Fusion saga episodes online and I think I can spot them and they are great.

Everything got better way too late. Ocean Kai will kick ass.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:03 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:A shame indeed.
Indeed. Still, no point dwelling on missed opportunities like this.
8000 Saiyan wrote:Yeah, honestly, Burgmeier never left a big impression on me even in Kai. There are a lot of people who could do much better than him as Tien. Apparently, the guy is a musician as well as a voice actor. I bet his music is better than his voice acting.
Woah, dunno where you pulled that quote from, but that was a while ago. :lol:
I stand by it, though.

Honestly, I don't think it's fair to just lay judgements on Burgmeier; the directing in the old Funi dub was really bad. I'd argue worse than Westwood. Tons of bad actors in there, sure, but it's like Phantom Menace -- you can't really judge someone's acting ability when even Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson are bad.
(Yes, I know there's no one on the same tier as those three I mentioned in Funi's dub, but you know what I mean)
I'm pretty sure that even the Funimation voice actors would admit that they aren't on the level of those three.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Scsigs » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:47 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Honestly, I don't think it's fair to just lay judgements on Burgmeier; the directing in the old Funi dub was really bad. I'd argue worse than Westwood. Tons of bad actors in there, sure, but it's like Phantom Menace -- you can't really judge someone's acting ability when even Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson are bad.
(Yes, I know there's no one on the same tier as those three I mentioned in Funi's dub, but you know what I mean)
I'm pretty sure those 3, & every other actor in the prequels, didn't get ANY emotional direction, or were directed to act as wooden as possible. Considering George Lucas is a terrible director directing established actors & Sabat & Co were newbies, I don't know if you can easily compare them like that.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Nia » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:38 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Honestly, I don't think it's fair to just lay judgements on Burgmeier; the directing in the old Funi dub was really bad. I'd argue worse than Westwood. Tons of bad actors in there, sure, but it's like Phantom Menace -- you can't really judge someone's acting ability when even Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson are bad.
(Yes, I know there's no one on the same tier as those three I mentioned in Funi's dub, but you know what I mean)
Honestly, Burgmeier is one of the FUNI cast who's been there for most of the FUNI run that I actually do kinda like. :x
Voice-wise, I think he's pretty much on point, and performance wise, while not wow-inducing, he never really sound bad either.

That being said, I don't like the FUNI dub. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere.
(Sorry not sorry.)

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:06 pm

Scsigs wrote:I'm pretty sure those 3, & every other actor in the prequels, didn't get ANY emotional direction, or were directed to act as wooden as possible. Considering George Lucas is a terrible director directing established actors & Sabat & Co were newbies, I don't know if you can easily compare them like that.
The point is poor direction gives a poor performance, even with the best actors out there.
Nia wrote:Honestly, Burgmeier is one of the FUNI cast who's been there for most of the FUNI run that I actually do kinda like. :x
Voice-wise, I think he's pretty much on point, and performance wise, while not wow-inducing, he never really sound bad either.
Eh, he's never really left any partiular impression on me as Tenshinhan. I'm sure he's a fine actor, but but to me, Matt Smith's Tenshinhan is more memorable.
Nia wrote:That being said, I don't like the FUNI dub. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere.
A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:17 am

I'm not really fond of Burgmeier's Tenshinhan voice, but at least he doesn't make me cringe like Matt Smith did.

If they had cast Lex Lang as Tenshinhan instead of Goku for the Bang Zoom dub, then it would have been awesome since Lex could have easily been the best Tien, at least to me.
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