Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:How so? There's no doubt in my mind that Keenlyside and Mitchell will be reusing tracks, so it's going to be about as dated as the Kikuchi music, haha.
The Westwood score being almost entirely reused tracks was done because of the massive time constraints and budget restrictions. From what people have said about Kai, it will be a full, proper, original score. If it does reuse any tracks, it will be the exception, not the rule.
Forte224 wrote:A replacement score in 2018? I thought we were past those days.
As Dragon Ball Ireland said, this decision was made 9 years ago.

Still though, to be honest, while I would be against a replacement score normally... Honestly, I'm all for it for Kai. If it means we don't have to sit through the badly-done Kikuchi replacement, or the plagiarised(And therefore in my mind impossible to listen to in good conscience) Yamamoto score, then I'm willing to give it a go. Even if it ends up only being okay, that'd still be better than if they'd stuck to the official music, and thus been stuck with the crappy Kikuchi replacement.

And honestly, given how generic and either dull or unfitting Sumitomo's score often is, it's entirely possible the score ends up being better than Sumitomo, and ends up being something I hope sticks around for if they do Final Chapters and/or Super.
Granted, it may not, but we don't know. It hasn't aired yet. We haven't heard a single second of this dub yet, so we can't pass any judgements on it until it starts airing, and we start hearing it for ourselves.
Valerius Dover wrote:It would at least be more varied than Kikuchi's score in Kai.
That's the big thing to remember here; it's either this, or Kai Kikuchi.
Valerius Dover wrote:there was the LBX dub which Keenlyside's group did not too long ago. Incidentally, while some of these tracks were reused from the Mega Man shows, most of the score was actually original, and pretty decent in my opinion. Not as amazing as that godly Japanese score, but it felt more like an anime score than a cartoon score, is what I'm saying.
Ooh, that's pretty cool. I'll have to see if I can find some clips of that, sounds interesting.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Wed May 09, 2018 2:13 pm

Apparently it is totally new. No need to assume past mistakes will be made again, these guys aren't amateurs. The production has had nothing but breathing space to do it's thing. Where those changes made to Cancon in 2009/ 2010 when the dub was actually produced? It suggests to me that the intention was not only to qualify for Canadian airwaves, but to also offer something slightly different as the show is not a carbon copy of what Funimation were doing.

To be honest, I don't see why we should care, the Japanese production is a mess regarding its score. Funimation's production suffered the same pitfall. The idea was to refurbish the product and at least Ocean's dub will do that AND offer some consistency as well.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Wed May 09, 2018 3:35 pm

The problem is that even if they composed a lot of original music for Kai (which I'm doubtful of), I'm kind of convinced we may have already heard most of those tracks. It wouldn't surprise me if LBX/Scan2Go/Deltora Quest/whatever recycled a bunch of the music they produced for this show. Reusing unreleased music isn't unchartered territory for them.

The good part about the "new" score is that there shouldn't be any clearance issues with using the existing masters Ocean produced. If they used Yamamoto's soundtrack someone would've had to go back and replace that, which for a dub that hadn't much hope of being released would've been unlikely to be done.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Wed May 09, 2018 4:57 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:The problem is that even if they composed a lot of original music for Kai (which I'm doubtful of), I'm kind of convinced we may have already heard most of those tracks. It wouldn't surprise me if LBX/Scan2Go/Deltora Quest/whatever recycled a bunch of the music they produced for this show. Reusing unreleased music isn't unchartered territory for them.
Honestly, if they reuse some older tracks, as long as they're not constantly using the same 5 or 6 songs for the entire run like they did for a good chunk of the Androids/Cell sagas of the Westwood dub, I'm happy. If you have a really kick-ass track just sitting right there, and it would fit this scene perfectly, as long as it's not a massively overused one, why not, eh?

But yeah, I've heard it's either totally, or almost entirely, new, so I don't know if this is something that will pop up.

Gotta say though, that link you put in as an example of reusing unreleased music is a poor example, since Westwood Z infamously had to be almost entirely reused pieces, due to the massive time and budget constraints... But yeah, I get the picture. Pretty interesting thought that some of this music for Kai might have been heard in the wild already.
Super Saiyan Prime wrote:The good part about the "new" score is that there shouldn't be any clearance issues with using the existing masters Ocean produced. If they used Yamamoto's soundtrack someone would've had to go back and replace that, which for a dub that hadn't much hope of being released would've been unlikely to be done.
The Yamamoto scandal came out around 2011/2012, so it wouldn't have been too hard to switch to the Kikuchi score, since they still had about a year or two(Or three?) of production left.
SX10 wrote:Apparently it is totally new. No need to assume past mistakes will be made again, these guys aren't amateurs. The production has had nothing but breathing space to do it's thing.
Absolutely. The main reasons for the corner-cutting in the Westwood dub were down to issues of time. They had to rush those goddamn episodes out as fast as they could, something everyone who worked on it often does attest to. They really didn't have the time to make original compositions for a lot of the early run. So, take away the time limitation, and just give them all the time in the world, as they seemed to have for this, and you have the opportunity for a fully-original soundtrack with a lot of thought into its usage and style.
SX10 wrote:To be honest, I don't see why we should care, the Japanese production is a mess regarding its score. Funimation's production suffered the same pitfall. The idea was to refurbish the product and at least Ocean's dub will do that AND offer some consistency as well.
:thumbup:

The handling of the Yamamoto situation was incredibly bad, and honestly the handling of Kai overall was terrible. Even Funimation's dub, which people laud as the gold standard of dubbing is still stuck with tons of '90s-isms, including random dialogue alterations that heavily detract from the original meaning of a scene, and they zig-zagged on the dub terms vs the sub terms for attack names and such, and they didn't decide to recast Freeza until they were getting into the Namek arc, meaning Linda Young's voice is somewhat jarringly heard in episode 1, and that's all without getting into Boo Kai's numerous problems.
So, I'm looking forward to seeing how Ocean has handled this. At the very least, it should allow us to finally enjoy a consistent Ocean take on an entire Dragon Ball show, which will be very nice.
Plus, I'm sure Canadian kids will really enjoy their first experience with Dragon Ball through this dub. :)

I just really hope this channel is well-marketed enough, and generates enough word of mouth that it can find its audience. It's about time Canada had a TV channel that aired anime, and it's really about goddamn time that Dragon Ball was able to be introduced to Canadian kids through TV again. It's been over 10 years now, after all.

On another note...

I dunno if anyone's brought this up before, but can I suggest that if/when Ocean Kai does actually get on air, we open a new thread, and let this one die off? This one's getting downright Lovecraftian in size, and I think once the show gets airing, it'll be nice to be able to get a fresh start on it. While it's still not on air, this thread will do fine, but if/when it starts airing, 280 pages would look very daunting to newcomers who've first discovered the show in Canada, and people who were once interested in this, but haven't read this thread in ages. Also, it'll get the word out much better to have a new thread with a title like 'Canada's "Dragonball Kai" from Ocean Studios discussion thread', rather than to just continue posting in this old thing. Plus, a title like that would end up a bit more descriptive for potential newcomers from Canada who've joined to discuss it.
(Yes, I realise I called it Dragonball Kai, rather than Dragon Ball Z Kai. "DRAGONBALL KAI" is how it's listed on the CRTC site, so I'm going with that. I imagine if/when we get to the point where my suggestion would come into action, we'd be much more certain about its actual name)
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Thu May 10, 2018 2:25 am

I think creating a new thread upon its release is a good call Robo. So many new or original followers come to speculate and are already lost.

So, if I'm remembering correctly, the opportunity to file a comment with CRTC regarding WOW! ended on April's close and by the end of May here we should know if it has passed regulatory checks?

When do we think the channel will start being advertised etc.? I'm unsure if they have developed it further or were waiting for CRTC. So anxious about Kai being picked up, I'm amazed we have restrained ourselves from checking in with Marni again, but it's fair play, we don't want to annoy her.

Also if it does get picked up, it would be most likely going on the air as Final Chapters finishes it's Toonami (first US televised) run. I remember a lot of speculation that perhaps a release was pending until after Funi Kai's initial TV run, then bam, along came Final Chapters.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu May 10, 2018 8:56 am

At this stage the right or wrong or quality of the replacement score doesn't matter to me (Ok quality does matter but all I need right now is a serviceable score for Ocean Kai) we've been hearing stories about this dub for so long I just want to see it out of morbid curiosity and to see if Ocean can deliver something near the quality of the Pioneer trilogy again, regardless of anything else they are talented actors and Keenlyside et al are great musicians so I'm willing to give everyone a chance. If the end product is great, fantastic, if its not, at least we will know and there will be no need to speculate anymore.
SX10 wrote:When do we think the channel will start being advertised etc.? I'm unsure if they have developed it further or were waiting for CRTC. So anxious about Kai being picked up, I'm amazed we have restrained ourselves from checking in with Marni again, but it's fair play, we don't want to annoy her.
Super Saiyan Prime would be the best person to ask about this, more knowledgeable about how Canadian TV works than I am.
SX10 wrote:Also if it does get picked up, it would be most likely going on the air as Final Chapters finishes it's Toonami (first US televised) run. I remember a lot of speculation that perhaps a release was pending until after Funi Kai's initial TV run, then bam, along came Final Chapters.
Interestingly Lee Tockar did speculate that the producers of this dub could have been waiting for Funimation's dub to finish its run on TV for it to air. I actually had a wacky theory that Tockar was told by "the powers that be" that he was playing Freeza in this dub was because at that stage Bell Media had acquired Kai behind the scenes and Marni didn't say so because she had signed an NDA, and the fact this channel is launching as soon as Funi Kai finishes on Toonami is no coincidence and was planned so Wow's launch lines up with the removal of TOEI's hypothetical stipulation.

In all honesty it was probably just wishful thinking on my part as this theory wouldn't explain why Marni asked us who owns the distribution rights to Dragon Ball Z, but I guess we'll see soon.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Thu May 10, 2018 5:49 pm

SX10 wrote:I think creating a new thread upon its release is a good call Robo. So many new or original followers come to speculate and are already lost.

So, if I'm remembering correctly, the opportunity to file a comment with CRTC regarding WOW! ended on April's close and by the end of May here we should know if it has passed regulatory checks?

When do we think the channel will start being advertised etc.? I'm unsure if they have developed it further or were waiting for CRTC. So anxious about Kai being picked up, I'm amazed we have restrained ourselves from checking in with Marni again, but it's fair play, we don't want to annoy her.
The CRTC's hearing to approve the sale of the channel is on May 31st.

There's obviously no guarantee, but September is usually the month for Canadian TV launches. I doubt there's going to be a huge push given the circumstances, but news on programming and early promotional efforts should trickle out over the summer.

People have been tweeting at Marni for updates. She hasn't responded.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by SX10 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:26 pm

Excellent! Thanks for that. I thought June/ July felt far too early for a launch, they would hold off developing the house style and programming until they were sure they were getting approved etc.

Aw bummer, then she's either super busy and not been on twitter or just can't say.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Robo4900 » Thu May 10, 2018 7:32 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:The CRTC's hearing to approve the sale of the channel is on May 31st.
Ah, very good.

I eagerly await that day. :)
SX10 wrote:Excellent! Thanks for that. I thought June/ July felt far too early for a launch, they would hold off developing the house style and programming until they were sure they were getting approved etc.

Aw bummer, then she's either super busy and not been on twitter or just can't say.
So close to the deadline, I imagine she's busy with various things.
I imagine she probably can't really say anything about Ocean Kai until the channel is starting to spin up its hype wheels, and has actually closed the deal on getting the rights to air it.
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SX10 wrote:Also if it does get picked up, it would be most likely going on the air as Final Chapters finishes it's Toonami (first US televised) run. I remember a lot of speculation that perhaps a release was pending until after Funi Kai's initial TV run, then bam, along came Final Chapters.
Interestingly Lee Tockar did speculate that the producers of this dub could have been waiting for Funimation's dub to finish its run on TV for it to air. I actually had a wacky theory that Tockar was told by "the powers that be" that he was playing Freeza in this dub was because at that stage Bell Media had acquired Kai behind the scenes and Marni didn't say so because she had signed an NDA, and the fact this channel is launching as soon as Funi Kai finishes on Toonami is no coincidence and was planned so Wow's launch lines up with the removal of TOEI's hypothetical stipulation.
The fact Lee Tockar speculated this too says to me that this may indeed be a factor. He seemed to know a certain amount about the production of this dub(I seem to recall he spoke very highly of the replacement score, so at the very least, he's been allowed to see/listen to some of it). This would also explain why Ocean Kai finished production on all 98 episodes in 2014 with no TV deal lined up during its long production time, then just sat around for the past 4 years; Funi had a TV deal going with Kai in the US, but then the channel died, so they had no-where to air Final Chapters, so perhaps that lead Ocean need to hold off until now. So, perhaps Ocean had to wait around until Funi were able to finish their airing.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri May 11, 2018 8:50 am

Forte224 wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Jean0987654321 wrote:I wonder what score they'll use in this dub?
Aa far as we know its getting a new score from Team Keenlyside.
A replacement score in 2018? I thought we were past those days.
Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 11, 2018 9:26 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Aa far as we know its getting a new score from Team Keenlyside.
A replacement score in 2018? I thought we were past those days.
Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
Hopefully a home release would include an option to not use the replacement score. Do we know for sure what they're doing script wise? Are they going for accuracy like Funi did? I guess they might be using the same scripts.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri May 11, 2018 9:35 am

Forte224 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Forte224 wrote: A replacement score in 2018? I thought we were past those days.
Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
Hopefully a home release would include an option to not use the replacement score. Do we know for sure what they're doing script wise? Are they going for accuracy like Funi did? I guess they might be using the same scripts.
This dub won't get a home release, it's a made-for TV dub.

Well, Ocean's dubs of the first three Z movies are known for being very accurate, so it's very likely that this dub could be accurate, even more accurate than Funi.

And we don't really know if they're using the same scripts.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Forte224 » Fri May 11, 2018 9:40 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote: Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
Hopefully a home release would include an option to not use the replacement score. Do we know for sure what they're doing script wise? Are they going for accuracy like Funi did? I guess they might be using the same scripts.
This dub won't get a home release, it's a made-for TV dub.

Well, Ocean's dubs of the first three Z movies are known for being very accurate, so it's very likely that this dub could be accurate, even more accurate than Funi.

And we don't really know if they're using the same scripts.
Let's hope.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Scsigs » Fri May 11, 2018 1:02 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote: Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
Hopefully a home release would include an option to not use the replacement score. Do we know for sure what they're doing script wise? Are they going for accuracy like Funi did? I guess they might be using the same scripts.
This dub won't get a home release, it's a made-for TV dub.

Well, Ocean's dubs of the first three Z movies are known for being very accurate, so it's very likely that this dub could be accurate, even more accurate than Funi.

And we don't really know if they're using the same scripts.
Considering this dub started around the same time the American one did, apparently, I doubt that they had the same scripts unless they were watching the American dub. We'll see, though.

For their dub, the mix will likely be in stereo, so who knows if you can separate the dialogue track from the music tracks.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Fri May 11, 2018 1:24 pm

The replacement score isn't being used to qualify as Cancon. You can check the CRTC's database under the Time Credit listing. Kai counts the same as other dubs that retain their Japanese score. Typically speaking, Cancon points are awarded for writers, actors and who funded the production. The CRTC will always be unlikely to view an English anime dub as anything more than 50% Canadian. I suspect they're not using the Japanese score so they can save on licensing fees.

My guess is that the script will more or less be identical to what Funimation used in the Nicktoons version. I'm sure someone will respond to me saying they only used the Funimation scripts for Z to save on time. That may be true, but we already know this dub's sharing footage with the Nicktoons version of Funimation's dub. Is it really that unlikely they share the script? The Blue Water dubs of DB/GT used footage from France so they were produced entirely independently of Z.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri May 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Forte224 wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:
Forte224 wrote: A replacement score in 2018? I thought we were past those days.
Apparently they are using a replacement score for Canadian content reasons. I like Canadians, but damn, they can be weird sometimes.

But I'm sure there are lots of people who could insert the Kikuchi, Yamamoto and Sumitomo scores with the audio track.
Hopefully a home release would include an option to not use the replacement score. Do we know for sure what they're doing script wise? Are they going for accuracy like Funi did? I guess they might be using the same scripts.
Unfortunately this dub getting a home release is a pipe dream at best. Even if it was no better than the Westwood dub I'd still buy it because I love having more Dragon Ball on my shelves and adding some diversity while I'm at it. Honestly though, as disappointing as it was the Westwood and Blue Water dubs never got a home release I'll be thankful if this dub gets broadcast (and all we can do nowit is hope for the best) as that would be far better than nothing at this stage.

There is no way to know what the scripts will be like, but if they are going to the effort of getting pronunciations right I would think a conscious effort is being made to keep somewhat close to the Japanese version.
Scsigs wrote:For their dub, the mix will likely be in stereo, so who knows if you can separate the dialogue track from the music tracks.
There are Youtube edits of the Z Ocean dub with Kikuchi's score, and Faulconer so I'm assuming there would be a way to replace the Keenlyside and Mitchell score with Yamamoto, Kikuchi or Sumitomo. I don't have any experience with audio editing though so it may all be wishful thinking on my part. Would be interesting to see what the dub would be like had they kept the Japanese scores though.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Scsigs » Fri May 11, 2018 8:31 pm

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:My guess is that the script will more or less be identical to what Funimation used in the Nicktoons version. I'm sure someone will respond to me saying they only used the Funimation scripts for Z to save on time. That may be true, but we already know this dub's sharing footage with the Nicktoons version of Funimation's dub. Is it really that unlikely they share the script? The Blue Water dubs of DB/GT used footage from France so they were produced entirely independently of Z.
I'm REALLY doubting that, dude. The reason that the Z dubs used the same scripts but the other shows didn't is because FUNi were apparently getting scripts from them at the time the Z dub was in production, so they got them from the people writing the dub. The DB & GT dubs weren't done with Ocean at all, were they? So, of course the dubs are gonna have different styles of adapting the Japanese lines. The same with Kai. Ocean only did visual edits on the series, not script edits. Why would they reuse FUNi's scripts? And why would they use the visually edited version of the footage? You'd think that they'd use the unedited footage, since they'd obviously have it. You're both putting too much though into this, yet not enough as well.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Super Sayian Prime » Sat May 12, 2018 12:34 am

I'm not interested in arguing over the script. None of us will know if it's different until we actually see the show.

However, video-wise I don't understand how you'd believe this is anything other than an edited dub. This is produced for television. Every Canadian Dragon Ball produced for television has had edits. We know this dub has a replacement score. How many anime dubs use a replacement score, but are otherwise uncut? Why would the Nicktoons version of Funimation's dub credit Ocean for video editing? There are plenty of video houses in the United States. The only way it makes sense to have it done in Vancouver is if that video editing was going to be done regardless. Like it was produced for an alternate dub and instead of spending money doing their own edits, they just reused that footage.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat May 12, 2018 1:18 am

Yu Gi Oh The Dark Side Of Dimesions is uncut but has a modified score. I think the Faulconer Funimation dub is sold uncut also.

But I know you are right. AND I CANT WAIT TO SEE IT STILL! Its gonna be AWESOME!
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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gokaiblue
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming...

Post by gokaiblue » Sat May 12, 2018 11:38 am

Always interesting hearing about the potential for alternative Dragon Ball dubs. If this comes out, it'll be awesome (hopefully).
Looking for these rare items/information:

Any information or recordings pertaining to Dragon Ball Z's syndicated run on WAWB
Any information regarding the stations that carried the origin Dragon Ball in the USA
Dragon Box (any deals would be nice)
Shonen Jumps with Dragon Ball in them

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