Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[NitroEX]

I still don't feel convinced by what Subzero Ice said regarding the ratings. It's going back a few years, but if I recall he suddenly came out with that claim in response to a comment I made to someone else regarding the fusion saga scenario. Like all of a sudden "Oh yeah I was in a meeting with the head of Turner and they said that Dragonball Z lost ratings during the brief switch to Funimation's dub during the Fusion saga way back in October 2002". Seems a bit too convenient to me but to each his own. The fact that he's an Ocean fan makes him a biased source to go by, even if he does have some degree of inside knowledge.

So you think his world would be shattered at the idea of the Ocean dub being less popular on TV and he needed to inject a lie in order to defend the honour of his favourite cast... Okay but, he really didn't come across as that sort of person to me, he was just an observer who attempted to set the record straight by divulging information that the rest of the fanbase didn't already have. If he was the one doing the arguing in the first place and then suddenly decided to drop that claim I'd be more suspicious but it wasn't like that. The way I see it, I have more reason to trust him than I don't and until I can track down the people or get the real story for myself, I'm still taking what he said into consideration.

And I think you're stretching things a bit with your ratings experiment theory. Cartoon Network aired DBZ before, during, and after school in addition to evenings. Many other kids channels did the same with all their shows just to fill time slots or to let people catch up, so CNX doing the same really wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

So the only reason they aired a show multiple times throughout the day was just to let people catch up and fill space but nothing else?
It's not so much a theory as it is common sense, if they play one episode multiple times (at different times of the day, which they always did), and rerun that batch of episodes on a different occasion, then that eliminates a whole bunch of the variables you were talking about and increases the reliability of the viewer data. If the Fusion saga episodes did poorly in one part of the day then they could have blamed it on something else like you say, but if the ratings dropped for all the showings AND the reruns while Ocean versions of DBZ remained consistent then they would have known something needed changing. If the guy he talked to was really the head of programming they would have naturally thought of it in these terms when explaining the situation to him. It wouldn't have been an experiment on DBZ specifically so much as the way they judge all their programming on the day to day.

You've already acknowledged what I said regarding both dubs being paid for as a plausible explanation. So if we can accept that the Funimation dub of those episodes on CNX was never going to be permanent then why would Turner bother studying and taking note which dub was doing better?

I'm not denying your theory might be valid, as it does seem to make the most sense, but none of us really know for sure as there's always a possibility it wasn't for that reason. It could turn out that none of us are even close to the real reason they did it and at this point, we'll likely never be certain. As for the ratings thing, they still would have paid attention to that anyway so regardless of the reason for using those episodes in the first place, if they notice their viewers aren't taking kindly to it, they'd note it as a mistake not to be repeated, which would fall in line with what Subzero Ice was allegedly told and why the person would've mentioned that they lost viewers due to the switch.

The Sky subscription thing is always going be one persons experience against the other. I was lucky enough to get the channel but most people I talk to mainly remember DBZ on Toonami UK and Cartoon Network UK but not CNX. If you go on Youtube the amount of CNX DBZ promos is actually quite limited despite them airing loads of them during the channel's short lifespan.

I just don't think it would've been as big of an issue as you're making it, especially with the advertising push they gave CNX before launch, regular viewers on CN all knew their favourite show was moving. But either way, even if they were judging from a smaller pool of viewers this time, they still had a baseline from which to judge along with the multiple repeats and old episodes to compare on performance.

About them switching back to Ocean again, you also mentioned Funimation having a lead in episode count but that wasn't completely true in regards to the Kid Buu saga. The last few episodes of Ocean Z used French footage due to Funimation's dub falling behind Ocean's right before the end. Episodes are purchased and sent to networks in batches, so Ocean's Kid Buu saga was complete and ready for broadcast before Funimation's, which is also reflected in the US airing the Kid Buu saga awhile after the UK. And there's also the possibility that Funimation's version had to air in the US before being allowed to air in any other country anyway, and CNX being desperate for ratings needed new episodes of DBZ ASAP.

None of this really seems relevant. The Kid Buu saga was the conclusion to the series so by that point it nothing mattered as they wouldn't change anything anyway. The Ocean voices are what people were used to AND they were now ahead in the episode count compared to Funimation's dub so there would have been no issues.

[90sDBZ]

I still don't feel convinced by what Subzero Ice said regarding the ratings. It's going back a few years, but if I recall he suddenly came out with that claim in response to a comment I made to someone else regarding the fusion saga scenario. Like all of a sudden "Oh yeah I was in a meeting with the head of Turner and they said that Dragonball Z lost ratings during the brief switch to Funimation's dub during the Fusion saga way back in October 2002". Seems a bit too convenient to me but to each his own. The fact that he's an Ocean fan makes him a biased source to go by, even if he does have some degree of inside knowledge.

So you think his world would be shattered at the idea of the Ocean dub being less popular on TV and he needed to inject a lie in order to defend the honour of his favourite cast... Okay but, he really didn't come across as that sort of person to me, he was just an observer who attempted to set the record straight by divulging information that the rest of the fanbase didn't already have. If he was the one doing the arguing in the first place and then suddenly decided to drop that claim I'd be more suspicious but it wasn't like that. The way I see it, I have more reason to trust him than I don't and until I can track down the people or get the real story for myself, I'm still taking what he said into consideration.

And I think you're stretching things a bit with your ratings experiment theory. Cartoon Network aired DBZ before, during, and after school in addition to evenings. Many other kids channels did the same with all their shows just to fill time slots or to let people catch up, so CNX doing the same really wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

So the only reason they aired a show multiple times throughout the day was just to let people catch up and fill space but nothing else?
It's not so much a theory as it is common sense, if they play one episode multiple times (at different times of the day, which they always did), and rerun that batch of episodes on a different occasion, then that eliminates a whole bunch of the variables you were talking about and increases the reliability of the viewer data. If the Fusion saga episodes did poorly in one part of the day then they could have blamed it on something else like you say, but if the ratings dropped for all the showings AND the reruns while Ocean versions of DBZ remained consistent then they would have known something needed changing. If the guy he talked to was really the head of programming they would have naturally thought of it in these terms when explaining the situation to him. It wouldn't have been an experiment on DBZ specifically so much as the way they judge all their programming on the day to day.

You've already acknowledged what I said regarding both dubs being paid for as a plausible explanation. So if we can accept that the Funimation dub of those episodes on CNX was never going to be permanent then why would Turner bother studying and taking note which dub was doing better?

I'm not denying your theory might be valid, as it does seem to make the most sense, but none of us really know for sure as there's always a possibility it wasn't for that reason. It could turn out that none of us are even close to the real reason they did it and at this point, we'll likely never be certain. As for the ratings thing, they still would have paid attention to that anyway so regardless of the reason for using those episodes in the first place, if they notice their viewers aren't taking kindly to it, they'd note it as a mistake not to be repeated, which would fall in line with what Subzero Ice was allegedly told and why the person would've mentioned that they lost viewers due to the switch.

The Sky subscription thing is always going be one persons experience against the other. I was lucky enough to get the channel but most people I talk to mainly remember DBZ on Toonami UK and Cartoon Network UK but not CNX. If you go on Youtube the amount of CNX DBZ promos is actually quite limited despite them airing loads of them during the channel's short lifespan.

I just don't think it would've been as big of an issue as you're making it, especially with the advertising push they gave CNX before launch, regular viewers on CN all knew their favourite show was moving. But either way, even if they were judging from a smaller pool of viewers this time, they still had a baseline from which to judge along with the multiple repeats and old episodes to compare on performance.

About them switching back to Ocean again, you also mentioned Funimation having a lead in episode count but that wasn't completely true in regards to the Kid Buu saga. The last few episodes of Ocean Z used French footage due to Funimation's dub falling behind Ocean's right before the end. Episodes are purchased and sent to networks in batches, so Ocean's Kid Buu saga was complete and ready for broadcast before Funimation's, which is also reflected in the US airing the Kid Buu saga awhile after the UK. And there's also the possibility that Funimation's version had to air in the US before being allowed to air in any other country anyway, and CNX being desperate for ratings needed new episodes of DBZ ASAP.

None of this really seems relevant. The Kid Buu saga was the conclusion to the series so by that point it nothing mattered as they wouldn't change anything anyway. The Ocean voices are what people were used to AND they were now ahead in the episode count compared to Funimation's dub so there would have been no issues.

All I'll say is that it's very common for people on the internet to stretch the truth in favour of their personal feelings. I don't know the guy personally, and for all I know he could be telling the truth. I'll just add that although he made that claim in response to my comment to someone else, he and I were having a debate in the same topic regarding the whole Funimation vs Ocean UK situation, so it's not like he just happened upon the discussion and decided to shed some light on it.

I don't completely agree that CNX and other channels aired shows multiple times a day just to test ratings. Common sense would tell them that the after school slots would be the most successful by far. And although some kids could catch early morning airings, many had to catch early buses to school and whatnot. Honestly I think the main reason for it was networks wanting to maximise overall total ratings and get the most out of their licenses.

And while CNX did air older episodes too, they only did that after Z ended. I clearly remember Z ending on a friday, with GT starting the following monday at 5PM and Z being moved to 7:25PM and starting from episode 1 for the first time since being on Cartoon Network. During the time the Funimation Fusion saga aired, it alone was in constant reruns until the Ocean version was introduced halfway through the 3rd run of the saga. I specifically remember it being the episode were Gotenks defuses.

Also consider that if there really was a substantial loss in ratings CNX would have been quick to make new promos highlighting the return of Ocean. Instead it was handled really low key and not even given a promo. Even the hardcore Ocean fans who may have dropped the show prior might not have known about it.

[NitroEX]

I'll just add that although he made that claim in response to my comment to someone else, he and I were having a debate in the same topic regarding the whole Funimation vs Ocean UK situation, so it's not like he just happened upon the discussion and decided to shed some light on it.

That's not true. According to his post history he only made two posts in that thread, the second of which he elaborated on the claim he made in the first (without jeopardizing his anonymity) and telling you to back off. He didn't pursue any argument or engage in debate.

I don't completely agree that CNX and other channels aired shows multiple times a day just to test ratings. Common sense would tell them that the after school slots would be the most successful by far. And although some kids could catch early morning airings, many had to catch early buses to school and whatnot. Honestly I think the main reason for it was networks wanting to maximise overall total ratings and get the most out of their licenses.

The problem seems to be that you're saying it has to be either or when in reality it's all of the above. These people are in high paid positions and take their job very seriously because if the ratings tank, they risk getting replaced. It makes no sense for them to ignore ratings or not take advantage of the fact that a show airs multiple times per day, that's crucial information in determining what the majority of their audience wants more of.

And while CNX did air older episodes too, they only did that after Z ended.

I recall differently, the ad for the Frieza saga (the one on Youtube) was shown as early as the channel's inception, it was part of the long line up of ads repeated before the channel played its first program. That would have been close to the Fusion saga. There would more than likely have been older episodes shown throughout the channel's lifespan, especially in between the wait for the next saga, I also have TV recordings of the Cell Games episodes that feature the CNX watermark (albeit without a date). I doubt you have an encyclopedic memory of the whole channel's lifespan to accurately remember them never showing any old episodes during DBZ's initial run.

Also consider that if there really was a substantial loss in ratings CNX would have been quick to make new promos highlighting the return of Ocean. Instead it was handled really low key and not even given a promo. Even the hardcore Ocean fans who may have dropped the show prior might not have known about it.

Word of mouth spreads fast so maybe they relied on that, who knows. As far as I remember, CNX promos hardly ever used voiceover from the shows themselves, it was always more of a mini music video to appeal to the older audience. Voiced promos were more of a Cartoon Network/Toonami thing. Although, even this Cartoon Network ad wasn't promoting that there was a voice change.

[90sDBZ]

I'll just add that although he made that claim in response to my comment to someone else, he and I were having a debate in the same topic regarding the whole Funimation vs Ocean UK situation, so it's not like he just happened upon the discussion and decided to shed some light on it.

That's not true. According to his post history he only made two posts in that thread, the second of which he elaborated on the claim he made in the first (without jeopardizing his anonymity) and telling you to back off. He didn't pursue any argument or engage in debate.

I don't completely agree that CNX and other channels aired shows multiple times a day just to test ratings. Common sense would tell them that the after school slots would be the most successful by far. And although some kids could catch early morning airings, many had to catch early buses to school and whatnot. Honestly I think the main reason for it was networks wanting to maximise overall total ratings and get the most out of their licenses.

The problem seems to be that you're saying it has to be either or when in reality it's all of the above. These people are in high paid positions and take their job very seriously because if the ratings tank, they risk getting replaced. It makes no sense for them to ignore ratings or not take advantage of the fact that a show airs multiple times per day, that's crucial information in determining what the majority of their audience wants more of.

And while CNX did air older episodes too, they only did that after Z ended.

I recall differently, the ad for the Frieza saga (the one on Youtube) was shown as early as the channel's inception, it was part of the long line up of ads repeated before the channel played its first program. That would have been close to the Fusion saga. There would more than likely have been older episodes shown throughout the channel's lifespan, especially in between the wait for the next saga, I also have TV recordings of the Cell Games episodes that feature the CNX watermark (albeit without a date). I doubt you have an encyclopedic memory of the whole channel's lifespan to accurately remember them never showing any old episodes during DBZ's initial run.

Also consider that if there really was a substantial loss in ratings CNX would have been quick to make new promos highlighting the return of Ocean. Instead it was handled really low key and not even given a promo. Even the hardcore Ocean fans who may have dropped the show prior might not have known about it.

Word of mouth spreads fast so maybe they relied on that, who knows. As far as I remember, CNX promos hardly ever used voiceover from the shows themselves, it was always more of a mini music video to appeal to the older audience. Voiced promos were more of a Cartoon Network/Toonami thing.

I went back and checked that topic and it turns out you're right about me not having a debate with him beforehand. Guess memory failed me on that one.

However you also mentioned before that he was just acting as a neutral observer/deliverer of the "facts" rather than making conclusive or opinionated statements based on them. This post suggests otherwise:

Actually, the head of programming at Turner broadcasting confirmed that they lost viewers due to the switch to Funimation from Ocean for the Fusion saga. So yes, the ratings did drop due to the Funimation dub. The Airwaves studios/Westwood studios produced Ocean dub of DBZ (DBZ episodes 108-276) had higher ratings than the Funimation dubbed DBZ episodes. From what I know, it is fair and accurate to say that the Ocean dub is more popular than the Funimation dub.

Here he was quick to blame the change in dub for the supposed decline in ratings, and was also quick to claim that this small batch of episodes reflected the overall popularity of both dubs. Not exactly the most considerate objective viewpoint, especially when he doesn't even mention the other factors we've talked about.

As for CNX promos not using voice overs there was this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4b6jG-pmY

And there were several others of the Funimation dub, like the one with Gotenks doing the spindletop Punch, the one with Super Buu screaming on the Lookout, the one were Piccolo reacts to seeing the Super Ghost, and another montage one were Justin Cook's Super Buu could be heard saying "You said you'd tell me when I could start fighting". While they did use many voiceless promos too, that was mainly for promos of the entire channel while the individual show promos mostly let you hear the voices.

If the decline in ratings had been that major then surely they'd have been desperate to get the word out about Ocean in order to save their number 1 show instead of relying on word of mouth. They were obviously fond of promos, so why not make at least one for the Ocean Fusion saga?

And speaking of Cartoon Network take a look at these old Frieza saga promos on this video starting at 00:41:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBy3HtO5qU

Surely if there really had been a huge backlash towards the Funimation cast in the UK then they wouldn't be making promos highlighting Schemmel's Goku's "Hope of the universe" speech.

[Super Sayian Prime]

I am aware of Funimation using them for the Roberta's Blood Trail but the way I understand it, in that scenario, they were pretty much forced into it. Funimation acquired the Black Lagoon rights along with a bunch of other anime from Geneon and Geneon were the ones who cast and produced the first Black Lagoon dub with the Ocean cast, not Funimation. Since that dub was still fresh and beloved in the minds of Black Lagoon fans they likely felt an obligation to keep the same deal in place, or perhaps contracts with Ocean were still valid even after the Funimation deal, giving Funi no choice but to use them. Either way, the point is; based on their track record, Funimation wouldn't have cast an anime like Black Lagoon in Canada had they been the ones in charge from the beginning, they would have almost certainly done it cheaper in Texas if they could but they had no choice.

Roberta's Blood Trail debuted in Japan after Geneon had shuttered its US business. There were no prior commitments on that one. You're absolutely correct in that if Black Lagoon was a Funimation title from the start it would've been done internally. Roberta's Blood Trail was probably only given to Ocean because of its short length. Funimation also picked up Shakugan no Shana from Geneon's collapse. The first season was done in Vancouver. Funimation did the rest in Texas, to a much less enthusiastic response. I only brought up RBT as a way to paint just how long it's been since Viz has used Ocean. Even then, that was for a short-ish cast reprisal.

[8000 Saiyan]

I am aware of Funimation using them for the Roberta's Blood Trail but the way I understand it, in that scenario, they were pretty much forced into it. Funimation acquired the Black Lagoon rights along with a bunch of other anime from Geneon and Geneon were the ones who cast and produced the first Black Lagoon dub with the Ocean cast, not Funimation. Since that dub was still fresh and beloved in the minds of Black Lagoon fans they likely felt an obligation to keep the same deal in place, or perhaps contracts with Ocean were still valid even after the Funimation deal, giving Funi no choice but to use them. Either way, the point is; based on their track record, Funimation wouldn't have cast an anime like Black Lagoon in Canada had they been the ones in charge from the beginning, they would have almost certainly done it cheaper in Texas if they could but they had no choice.

Thank God they never dubbed Black Lagoon. I can't imagine anyone in Dallas' talent pool that could have pulled off Revy better than Maryke Hendrikse. I hope she got a role in Kai.

[SX10]

btw! What's a rough kind of time frame with regards to WOW! unlimited media getting their channel on the air?

[8000 Saiyan]

My opinion has always been that Wilson had the better voice, but that Clarke was the better actor. Wilson's voice was very fitting for the character, but his delivery could sound downright weird at times. In Theater School, they told us never to just say, "something's good," or, "something's bad," we had to go into extreme detail as to why something worked or didn't work. With Wilson, I have something of a problem in that area because I don't know what to say beyond what I said...he sounded weird. Very weird. Like he was playing a different character than who he was told he was playing.

With Clarke, you had the exact opposite. Whereas Wilson had a great voice but couldn't act as effectively, Clarke had a not-that-great voice but could act reasonably well. He did sound like a game show announcer, that's the description I've been using for a while. He also, however, give a believable sense of anger to the character. Was his overall performance good enough to be fantastic? No. But good enough that his scenes were watcheable? Yes. Especially when Cell got angry, that was Clarke's strong point. When Cell was calm and calculating, Clarke sounded a little too loud. That could be the bad scripts, maybe bad directing, I'm not sure. When Cell was angry, though...DAMN could Clarke do that side of Cell effectively.

I used to have a video on YouTube saved to one of my playlists, but unfortunately pretty much everything Ocean-related has been taken off YouTube. It was a dub comparison comparing the FUNimation and Ocean versions of when Gohan kills Cell. If anyone can find the Ocean version of that event, please post it. Clarke's final scream of anger and disbelief, "BUT I AM PERFECT!!!" is infinitely better than Wilson's read of the line. Wilson almost sounds either stoned or hungover for that line.

I think the poor guy just suffered from bad direction, that's all. I wouldn't call the guy a terrible actor or anything like that, since he's much better in other shows. I think his voice for Semi-Perfect Cell was much better than Clarke's, during Z. Honestly, I don't think he's that bad as most people claim him to be.

[Super Sayian Prime]

btw! What's a rough kind of time frame with regards to WOW! unlimited media getting their channel on the air?

If they're very lucky, late fall/winter. Realistically? Probably sometime next year. They have to get purchase approval from the CRTC in addition to doing all the standard stuff to launch a channel.

[SX10]

btw! What's a rough kind of time frame with regards to WOW! unlimited media getting their channel on the air?

If they're very lucky, late fall/winter. Realistically? Probably sometime next year. They have to get purchase approval from the CRTC in addition to doing all the standard stuff to launch a channel.

Excellent! I thought it would maybe Ben next year, it seem s like if they get Kai it will be highly likely they'll get Ocean's dub. If they get Kai, I think that's part is up to us to keep at them.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

btw! What's a rough kind of time frame with regards to WOW! unlimited media getting their channel on the air?

If they're very lucky, late fall/winter. Realistically? Probably sometime next year. They have to get purchase approval from the CRTC in addition to doing all the standard stuff to launch a channel.

Excellent! I thought it would maybe Ben next year, it seem s like if they get Kai it will be highly likely they'll get Ocean's dub. If they get Kai, I think that's part is up to us to keep at them.

Agreed. I'm going to write them a letter expressing the love for Dragon Ball fans all around the world have, including some for the Ocean cast and Kai as a specific product. Will tell my Canadian friends too. Hopefully if enough people express interest they will pick up Ocean Kai.

[8000 Saiyan]

If they're very lucky, late fall/winter. Realistically? Probably sometime next year. They have to get purchase approval from the CRTC in addition to doing all the standard stuff to launch a channel.

Excellent! I thought it would maybe Ben next year, it seem s like if they get Kai it will be highly likely they'll get Ocean's dub. If they get Kai, I think that's part is up to us to keep at them.

Agreed. I'm going to write them a letter expressing the love for Dragon Ball fans all around the world have, including some for the Ocean cast and Kai as a specific product. Will tell my Canadian friends too. Hopefully if enough people express interest they will pick up Ocean Kai.

Tell them that the voice actors, much like the fans, would like to see the dub.

[TVfan721]

Was any new info ever given on the Korea airings? I PM'ed Quantum but he never replied.

[8000 Saiyan]

Was any new info ever given on the Korea airings? I PM'ed Quantum but he never replied.

No, no info. Maybe Quantum is busy to reply. Whoever he talked to is a very smart troll.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Excellent! I thought it would maybe Ben next year, it seem s like if they get Kai it will be highly likely they'll get Ocean's dub. If they get Kai, I think that's part is up to us to keep at them.

Agreed. I'm going to write them a letter expressing the love for Dragon Ball fans all around the world have, including some for the Ocean cast and Kai as a specific product. Will tell my Canadian friends too. Hopefully if enough people express interest they will pick up Ocean Kai.

Tell them that the voice actors, much like the fans, would like to see the dub.

That's the plan

Was any new info ever given on the Korea airings? I PM'ed Quantum but he never replied.

With all due respect to Quantum, it was not his fault this rumour started as he was told by the guy in Orlando but I cannot bring myself to believe the information about the Korea airings was true. If so much was known about this dub airing (download links online, etc) there would be more evidence of it. Dragon Ball is too well known and respected as a franchise for a new dub featuring some of the iconic original English cast to just air and for fans to record it without it being noticed by a significant portion of the fanbase especially when a lot of them consider one of the actors the ideal dubbed Piccolo. Even the Bang Zoom dub of Super found its way out of the realm of obscurity. Additionally, when it comes to Korea we know from kei17 that Korean content laws would make such a broadcast incredibly unlikely.

[8000 Saiyan]

I've just noticed this topic will turn six years old tomorrow.

...Can any dub possibly meet six years worth of hype for those that actually care? Especially when there's a perfectly good English dub of it that's been around for even longer than this topic? There is such a thing as missing your window.

How many places can this air on TV that hasn't already run Kai? Hell, even more importantly, how many places would want to run this on DVD/Blu-Ray that haven't already done the FUNi dub of it?

[/quote]

I honestly don't mind another second English dub of Kai. And let's face something, you can't please everyone (some people never became accostumed to the Funi voices). I want to see this dub because I'm a big fan of the Vancouver talent pool and their dubs (Death Note, Ranma 1/2, Inuyasha, Gundam, Black Lagoon, Shana, Sword of the Stranger...etc). I think they deserve a chance to redeem themselves after the trainwreck that was the Westwood dub, and prove to some people that they can actually act and aren't talentless idiots who ruined Dragon Ball with their voice acting.[/quote]

I know this reply to your post is a little old, but I felt I need to add something: If FUNi was able to improve with Kai, why can't Ocean? I know you like them as actors, but I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I'd say you're basically underestimating their talents when it comes to giving a genuine performance.

[Robo4900]

I know this reply to your post is a little old, but I felt I need to add something: If FUNi was able to improve with Kai, why can't Ocean? I know you like them as actors, but I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I'd say you're basically underestimating their talents when it comes to giving a genuine performance.

I'd also like to add to this that the Westwood dub was actually good.

People crap all over it online, but really, while I would say the acting was better than Funimation's dub at the time, the thing is, the music is a matter of taste(I happen to prefer Ocean's), and as far as the TV airings of the two go, the scripts were the same.
So sure, Westwood wasn't as good as the original Saban run, but I don't see how anyone can honestly say the Westwood version sucks, while singing the praises of Funimation's mess of a dub. Both dubs were terrible adaptations of the original Japanese with very poor scripts, but both are enjoyable in their own right. And if someone's going to tear down one of the dubs, it should be Funimation's -- at least Ocean's had good acting along with it, and the music wasn't obnoxiously blaring at full volume all the time.

[8000 Saiyan]

I know this reply to your post is a little old, but I felt I need to add something: If FUNi was able to improve with Kai, why can't Ocean? I know you like them as actors, but I don't think you're giving them enough credit. I'd say you're basically underestimating their talents when it comes to giving a genuine performance.

I'd also like to add to this that the Westwood dub was actually good.

People crap all over it online, but really, while I would say the acting was better than Funimation's dub at the time, the thing is, the music is a matter of taste(I happen to prefer Ocean's), and as far as the TV airings of the two go, the scripts were the same.
So sure, Westwood wasn't as good as the original Saban run, but I don't see how anyone can honestly say the Westwood version sucks, while singing the praises of Funimation's mess of a dub. Both dubs were terrible adaptations of the original Japanese with very poor scripts, but both are enjoyable in their own right. And if someone's going to tear down one of the dubs, it should be Funimation's -- at least Ocean's had good acting along with it, and the music wasn't obnoxiously blaring at full volume all the time.

It's simple why they praise the old Funimation Z dub. Nostalgia. Even their much-lauded Buu Saga dub isn't anything great, IMO.

[Scsigs]

It's simple why they praise the old Funimation Z dub. Nostalgia. Even their much-lauded Buu Saga dub isn't anything great, IMO.

As Kai, BOG, RF, & Super's dubs clearly show.

[8000 Saiyan]

It's simple why they praise the old Funimation Z dub. Nostalgia. Even their much-lauded Buu Saga dub isn't anything great, IMO.

As Kai, BOG, RF, & Super's dubs clearly show.

Those are the dubs that really deserve their respect. All I can say is that I'm glad that I don't have to cringe whenever Schemmel or Sabat deliver a line.