How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion)?

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Singh is King » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:59 am

gohann wrote:
Singh is King wrote: Can't believe anyone can tolerate Sabat's Recoome, Cranz's Chi Chi, or Schemmel's King Kai over them, tbh.
I actually kind of like Cynthia Cranz (the acting and voice are good, but the direction doesn't allow her to show much range), but those other two should have been the first ones to be recast. Even Chris Sabat's Zarbon at its worst wasn't quite as bad as either of those two.
Cranz sounds fine as Chi Chi when trying to be warm, but when angry, she sounds plain awful: the direction is what's lacking there, I agree, though I think Nadolny and Vollmer's worst isn't even as bad as Cranz's worst, so to speak.

Absolutely agreed, and yes: BTW, glad Tatum is Zarbon now-- he knocked it out of the park! :clap:
ABED wrote:Nadolny can't convey anything well. Even her laugh sounds fake.
IMHO, this is a fake laugh-- http://noodlerama.tumblr.com/post/98016557586

Maybe Nadolny didn't have the best laughter, but there are worse VAs out there for children than her by far, is my point.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by gohann » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:01 am

*girlish humming*
*snort*
"Da-ha-ha-ha-ha-huhuhuhu"
THAT MUSIC :crazy: :shock:

On-topic: I think Stephanie Nadolny can at least give convincing laughter, even if it's a bit stiff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqIsVoqWjUo

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Singh is King » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:07 am

gohann wrote: On-topic: I think Stephanie Nadolny can at least give convincing laughter, even if it's a bit stiff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqIsVoqWjUo
Nadolny's laugh could work given proper direction, I agree: clip does indicate that.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Man-Child » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:32 am

ABED wrote:I wish I could hear things from your perspective because I don't hear any screech from Clinkenbeard. I hear it plenty from Nadolny, not to mention terrible acting and rasp. Combine that with her terrible obnoxiously unnatural cadence that sounds like a cross between Janice from Friends, Woody Woodpecker, and Krusty.

I don't know exactly what happened, but regardless of how they went about getting new voices, I'm happy that they did because the replacements are better. I'm all for treating actors well, but deciding to go with a different actor is perfectly okay, and it doesn't matter how long the actors were with the show.
Luffy and Goku are far too similar of characters to be voiced by the same VA
Different show, so it doesn't matter, especially to those of us who don't watch both shows.
This is just one of many examples, for me, of the screech because of her high voice. https://youtu.be/izhxWJNzaow. It gets grating at times. It's that, coupled with the fact that her voices for Luffy and Goku have no real distinction between them. Now obviously this might not be a problem for those who haven't seen One Piece, but for people like me who have, I can only hear Luffy coming out of those images of Goku. I think her higher voice works better for Gohan anyway, as it fits his younger age and softer character.

I liked Nadolny just fine for when she was brought into the show (Ginyu Assault to One More Wish), as she was continuing on from Henderson, and Gohan would be getting into his preteen years soon. I think it was in the redubs of the Saiyan and Namek sagas that her voice was noticeably out of place. Gohan was just too young at that point to have the same voice.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:03 pm

Again, NO screach whatsoever. It's a scream, and not even an annoying scream.

Listen to Nadolny's noises when she's playing drunk Gohan in Dead Zone. 1 - does that sound remotely like a 4 year old? and 2 - it's not cute and adorable. THAT is annoying.

And again, I don't care if her voice sounds the same in two different shows as two different characters. We're not judging her on her ability to sound different, this is about whether she fits one specific role. It's like Michael Cera in every movie he's in. Do i care that he gives the same performance in Arrested Development as Superbad? No, it fit those roles.
though I think Nadolny and Vollmer's worst isn't even as bad as Cranz's worst, so to speak.
I gotta disagree there, especially regarding Vollmer. I'm not a fan of Cranz as Chichi, but Vollmer is one of my least favorite and I was incredibly happy her role was recast.
but Nadolny shows an incredible vocal range in the dub that I've really come to appreciate. Goku in Dragonball and Gohan are not so dissimilar where they don't sound related, but you're right; there is a distinction that puts them apart just a bit. It's a bit hard to define in words, though.
It's mostly due to characterization, not acting range.
but her DB Goku and GT Goku are pretty much the same, just the latter is more throaty.
They aren't different characters, so why should they sound different? I'm 29, but if i was turned back into my 12 year old self, i'd sound like I did at that age. Colleen can sound very different in different roles. For instance, her 18 sounds NOTHING like her Gohan. One might not even be able tell those roles were played by the same actress.
But at least Stephanie Nadolny isn't so loud and ear-grating; Colleen Clinkenbeard doesn't even sound remotely tolerable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwcVmNUMsnk
0:05 Too throaty and feminine
0:09 No sense of urgency here.
0:13 Flat
0:21 conveys the right emotion decently, but still isn't as well-acted as it could be.
It's all downhill from there.
This completely lacks context. How do i know there should be a sense of urgency?
Nadolny can get really loud and ear grating, and when she cries, it's this piercing scream combined with her rasp that makes for an terrible listening experience.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by gohann » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:21 pm

You may not hear screeching, but I do. Even then, I can barely listen to it.

She wasn't that good in Dead Zone, but the same could be said for almost everyone in FUNimation's redubs of the first three movies. They were all mostly phoned in.

Acting range and characterization can go hand-in-hand to some degree.

Of course, but you would retain the knowledge and more fluent way of speaking that you had as a grown man. 18 wasn't brought up.

I didn't bother with gameplay videos earlier, as the quotes are all synced to the same lip movements, and then a camera pan to his back, but you can get a good idea of what emotion is supposed to be conveyed by the lines said.

Nearly everything you just said about Stephanie Nadolny in that last sentence can be applied to Colleen Clinkenbeard's screams. She doesn't have much rasp, but she more than makes up for it with screeching.
When she says, "Gohan! It's me, Goten! (Horrible laugh), just kidding!", she sounds so constipated and pissed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQlW2tOJEU (See 17:31)

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by funrush » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:24 pm

I think all of them sounded better than their previous actors/actresses, with some exceptions. While I thought Colleen was way better for Kid Gohan, I thought Stephanie Nadolny's voice worked just fine for Young Goku, since he was an adolescent. I'm also neutral on Colleen's #18, because although the performance was a lot better than Meredith McCoy's, the old dub having bad acting in general is a big part of that, and she did pretty good in Battle of Gods. So to me her 18 isn't really better or worse than Meredith's, it was just a different direction.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Singh is King » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:10 pm

gohann wrote: Nearly everything you just said about Stephanie Nadolny in that last sentence can be applied to Colleen Clinkenbeard's screams. She doesn't have much rasp, but she more than makes up for it with screeching.
When she says, "Gohan! It's me, Goten! (Horrible laugh), just kidding!", she sounds so constipated and pissed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evQlW2tOJEU (See 17:31)
That sounds like a more feminine version of her Luffy voice from One Piece to me, and...yeah, it doesn't sound very good. Clinkenbeard's Kid Gohan voice sounds much more natural and more fitting than her Kid Goku voice, IMHO.

Though, I'll say this about her Kid Goku: not as bad as Kelamis' Kid Goku, Morrow's Kid Goku, etc.
gohann wrote:*girlish humming*
*snort*
"Da-ha-ha-ha-ha-huhuhuhu"
THAT MUSIC :crazy: :shock:
:lol:
ABED wrote: I gotta disagree there, especially regarding Vollmer. I'm not a fan of Cranz as Chichi, but Vollmer is one of my least favorite and I was incredibly happy her role was recast.
Understandable-- to each their own. I thought Vollmer was awful at the beginning, but was tolerable in her last few appearances as Bulma.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by gohann » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:41 pm

Not only does she play Luffy better, but the voice she uses is a watered-down version as well.

At least no one made a hack of Xenoverse with Peter Kelamis as Kid Goku, I'll say that much.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:43 pm

18 wasn't brought up.
I don't see how that's relevant, it goes to the point about her acting range.
When she says, "Gohan! It's me, Goten! (Horrible laugh), just kidding!", she sounds so constipated and pissed
I would love to get inside your head because that doesn't sound remotely constipated to me. Have you heard Nadolny as Goku Jr.? Listen to her cry, it's the kind of scream that can break glass.
She wasn't that good in Dead Zone, but the same could be said for almost everyone in FUNimation's redubs of the first three movies. They were all mostly phoned in.
I had no problem with anyone else. It was just Nadolny's hahahahaha drunk kid. It's supposed to be cute, it's just obnoxious. Rarely has she delivered a line or noise or utterance in DB that ever sounded natural.

Goku is pretty much the same guy from DB to GT, I don't see how that makes Nadolny's acting as Goku any better.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Ushabtis » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:15 pm

ABED wrote:Listen to her cry, it's the kind of scream that can break glass.
I agree with you here man, Nadolny is not very good at the whole "real" crying thing. I recently re-watched the Grandpa Gohan reunited with Goku in dragon ball...and that cry acting was....horrible. then going on to DBZ with cry baby gohan...its only worse. Now the laugh...personally the dorky laugh works well with Goku imo. he's a weird kid from the forest so the awkward laugh complements him well.
Goku is pretty much the same guy from DB to GT, I don't see how that makes Nadolny's acting as Goku any better.
Well not sure what you mean here, since GT was dubbed years after DB it'd make sense Nadonly would be just a better actress by then, in terms of skill. and Goku's personality in GT compared to DB is a lot different.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by gohann » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:44 pm

ABED wrote: I would love to get inside your head because that doesn't sound remotely constipated to me. Have you heard Nadolny as Goku Jr.? Listen to her cry, it's the kind of scream that can break glass.
I heard it and it was actually good. Crying was on the shrill and pissed side (she did it well in The Path to Power), but it's still not the worst.
I had no problem with anyone else. It was just Nadolny's hahahahaha drunk kid. It's supposed to be cute, it's just obnoxious. Rarely has she delivered a line or noise or utterance in DB that ever sounded natural.
You should hear Sean Schemmel Goku's laugh, all it is, is "Dah-harr-harr-harr"
I can probably count the amount of character laughs on my fingers that are

1) Well-acted
2) Realistic and genuine
3) Not annoying

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:07 pm

I just wathced FUNi's dub of Blood Rubies, and I can't help but think it felt like the early 2000s dub of DB just with a different Goku voice (Clinkenbeard is better, but not by much going by that film). I compared it to the harmony gold dub, and they are very similar (actually, Gold's dub had better voices and performances, such as with the henchmen, especially the opening scene with the big henchman beating up the farmer, and Yamcha also had better delivery than Sabat's Yamcha). The opening scene actually felt very early 2000s DB dub with the performances. Overall, it had awkward delivery, weird pauses in their speech, annoying grunts that are out of place and unrealistic or done for no reason other than an angry facial expression, and overall unbelievable performances. The Blood Rubies FUNi redub does get better throughout the film, but it still felt underwhelming and no where on the level with Kai.

When was the dub made for Blood Rubies? It has the Kai cast, but they just sound off or not as good as other FUNi dubs that came out in the late 2000s (see Steins; Gate. It suffers from none of my complaints with the Blood Rubies dub).

Actually, I didn't mind Clinkenbeard, but they should have found a different actor/actress to play Goku. However, it was much better than Nadolny! Still, FUNi had way too much awkward moments, weirdly fast delivery in some scenes (ala Big Green Dub), and weird grunts and pausing in the speech. Kai does not suffer from this yet with the same cast, they seem worse! Harmony Gold did a better job with actors who dubbed the film as another job without years of understanding the characters and the series back in the 80s!
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Man-Child » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:30 pm

ABED wrote:Again, NO screach whatsoever. It's a scream, and not even an annoying scream.

Listen to Nadolny's noises when she's playing drunk Gohan in Dead Zone. 1 - does that sound remotely like a 4 year old? and 2 - it's not cute and adorable. THAT is annoying.

And again, I don't care if her voice sounds the same in two different shows as two different characters. We're not judging her on her ability to sound different, this is about whether she fits one specific role. It's like Michael Cera in every movie he's in. Do i care that he gives the same performance in Arrested Development
Well I certainly hear a bit of screeching. As if the scream is going too high for even the actress. Definitely annoying after the first or second time hearing it.

Now the Nadolny Dead Zone point, I completely agree with. But I kinda already mentioned that with my feelings toward the redub of the the first two seasons. Her voice just isn't fitting for Gohan at that age. Don't get me wrong, I like Nadolny, but I've long since admitted that Clinkenbeard is probably better for the role.

As for Goku, I feel the opposite. Regardless of the Luffy comparisons, I find her voice too high and screechy for my taste. Maybe because she understood that Goku was a tough character anyway that she tried to make him more outward speaking, but the result is that her deliveries are too forceful. And thats where the annoying strain in her voice comes in.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by matt0044 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:47 pm

Singh is King wrote:
gohann wrote:I'd say it was decent at best in Kai but nothing special.

Roshi DOES sound off! What happened to his voice there?
Agreed: more or less the same thoughts.

No idea-- he sounds so silly and goofy now. I preferred McFarland's take on Roshi in DB, like in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0SjqNrhyNE
He's always sounded a goofy old codger in Dragon Ball, Z and Kai. How is this new? :eh:

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:30 pm

McFarland does sound different than he use to. His delivery is way different than before.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by gohann » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:30 pm

It doesn't sound like an old man anymore, either, see 0:50 of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEqgtaPxko

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Singh is King » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:35 pm

matt0044 wrote:
Singh is King wrote:
gohann wrote:I'd say it was decent at best in Kai but nothing special.

Roshi DOES sound off! What happened to his voice there?
Agreed: more or less the same thoughts.

No idea-- he sounds so silly and goofy now. I preferred McFarland's take on Roshi in DB, like in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0SjqNrhyNE
He's always sounded a goofy old codger in Dragon Ball, Z and Kai. How is this new? :eh:
Refer to what AttitudeFan and Gohann said, really: he's not awful, but his Roshi was capable of sounding serious as well when he needed to do so-- now the delivery is just silly even when he tries to act serious, and McFarland has moments when he lapses out of the voice like what Gohann said.

I have to admit Ayres is nearly perfect now as Frieza, though: he's getting closer to Nakao every time-- he's an amazing talent and I think someone we mostly all agree on as being vastly superior to Young in the role.

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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:42 am

gohann wrote:It doesn't sound like an old man anymore, either, see 0:50 of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJEqgtaPxko
That is a perfect example. He sounds so 'gurgly' and not really 'old' like he use to. It's a different voice completely!

I find Schemmel suffers from this weird gurgling in their voice where it never happened before. Maybe years of screaming has damaged their voice?? I know this kind of thing happened to Dave Mustaine of Megadeth, who's voice use to be very high pitched and smooth; now, Mustaine's voice has dropped (due to age and damage) but it is also so much raspier or gravely. When he sings, it also has that weird gurgle attribute to it that was never there before (Before 1995, Mustaine seemed to have no noticeable alterations in his singing or speaking voice). I find Schemmel and McFarland have the exact same thing happening to them. I expect in a few years their voice might be completely different, like with Mustaine. There are video comparisons of Mustaine's voice where it began to change in 1995, but VERY SLOWLY changed until present day. At first he could not get the grit in his voice as well until he couldn't do that anymore when hitting higher notes. So, by the year 2000, Mustaine's could not hit the high notes with the grit at all. It remained that way until about 2009/2010. By 2010, his speaking voice changed drastically, where it became very 'gurgly' and much deeper (yet in 2008, his voice still was much smoother and higher pitched). He can't sing since 2010. He has dropped pitch in all his performances post-2010 because he can't even sing anymore.

I expect this slow burn in vocal deterioration is happening to McFarland and Schemmel and that is why they talk or scream with that gurgle when voice acting, especially in intense scenes. I'm sure a few more years down the road they will not be able to scream (like Mustaine hitting high notes with grit, and later unable to hit them at all) like they use to until they can't do it anymore. The way Schemmel screams does damage the vocal cords if done very often. Both actors pitches in their voices seem to have also dropped a bit compared to 2003, just like Dave Mustaine.

EDIT: Listening to the trailer again, Ayres screams in a way that is extremely damaging. I expect his voice to devolve like McFarland's has. It will develop a weird gurgle, lower in pitch, and he will not have the same intensity like he does now. Don't say it is aging, because singers like Shirley Bassey, who is over 70, sounds exactly like they did in their twenties. Bassey took care of her voice and has the exact same intensity, hitting all the notes identically as she did in her prime. So, I do not want to blame it on age. Drinking excessively, and smoking also causes further damage.

Actually, I just realized as I typed the edit that one DB actor is a prime example of vocal deterioration due to screaming, smoking, and overall not taking care of his voice: that actor is Ryo Horikawa!! His Vegeta has that weird gurgle when in the past it use to be so smooth. Additionally, he cannot yell like he use to (and when he does, it has that gurgle, just like Mustaine, just like McFarland, and Schemmel!!!).

Mustaine is the worst case scenario of vocal deterioration. I'd expect Schemmel and McFarland to end up like Horikawa as the years go by more so than the ultra-damaged voice of Mustaine.
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Re: How did the re-cast characters turn out (in your opinion

Post by Singh is King » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:39 pm

Attitudefan wrote: That is a perfect example. He sounds so 'gurgly' and not really 'old' like he use to. It's a different voice completely!

I find Schemmel suffers from this weird gurgling in their voice where it never happened before.

Drinking excessively, and smoking also causes further damage.

Actually, I just realized as I typed the edit that one DB actor is a prime example of vocal deterioration due to screaming, smoking, and overall not taking care of his voice: that actor is Ryo Horikawa!! His Vegeta has that weird gurgle when in the past it use to be so smooth.
Yup: McFarland Roshi at that point is like one of those young guys trying to sound old voices at that point (not the worst I've heard, though)-- McFarland is lacking consistency with his Roshi pitch he used to have down.

That's particular evident with Sean's King Kai: I know Schemmel was never good in the role, but at least at times in the Cell Saga during the DBZ dub, he dropped the lisp to an extent and was smoother-- since Remastered his King Kai got worse (as did Sabat's Recoome-- even in the 1999 dub his Recoome was better than later on), and in Kai, Sean's King Kai voice is deep, throaty, gurgling, and obnoxious-- it's not the sound of a wise, elderly kind martial artist. It's the sound of a fat clown eating Cheetos or Munchies while trying to sound tough.

Sarah Natochenny, who voices Ash in the current Pokemon English dub, does actually smoke cigarettes, and it's undeniable that it affects the vocal cords (and IMHO it's blatantly obvious when you hear her take on Ash, but I digress-- she was the one laughing in that clip I posted above to contrast with Nadolny), so that's an undeniable fact. Ryo Horikawa is another example of what happens when you smoke to your voice: in Z, he sounded smooth, princely, commanding, regal, and could nail the villainous edge: now he has this throaty tone and gurgle to his Vegeta and it's not what it used to be.
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