Was Kai Necessary

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Bagginses » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:14 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ZPolk01 wrote:Yes, it was made to be more accurate to the manga (or at least remove most filler) and for the Funimation dub, yes, because the voice acting is better (Kid/Pre-Teen Gohan and Bulma's voices are... rather diverse though), and the characters are portrayed more accurately as they were to the manga.

You're referencing English Kai as a reason it's necessary, which would be fine, but we already have a fully intelligible version in the DBZ sub. I don't see how cutting filler is "necessary" either. Maybe if this were a show like Naruto, but most of the (non-fighting) Dragon Ball filler fits in just fine. I'm sure many would agree with me if I said the first 17 episodes of DBZ contained not only some of the best filler of its kind in Dragon Ball, but of any other anime of the time.


And many would say that the words ''filler'' and ''good'' are incompatible. The first DB community which I visited online, most people simply did not stand filler at all.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby ABED » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:56 am

Bagginses wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
ZPolk01 wrote:Yes, it was made to be more accurate to the manga (or at least remove most filler) and for the Funimation dub, yes, because the voice acting is better (Kid/Pre-Teen Gohan and Bulma's voices are... rather diverse though), and the characters are portrayed more accurately as they were to the manga.

You're referencing English Kai as a reason it's necessary, which would be fine, but we already have a fully intelligible version in the DBZ sub. I don't see how cutting filler is "necessary" either. Maybe if this were a show like Naruto, but most of the (non-fighting) Dragon Ball filler fits in just fine. I'm sure many would agree with me if I said the first 17 episodes of DBZ contained not only some of the best filler of its kind in Dragon Ball, but of any other anime of the time.


And many would say that the words ''filler'' and ''good'' are incompatible. The first DB community which I visited online, most people simply did not stand filler at all.
Filler is not axiomatically bad.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Faisal Shourov » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:29 pm

Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)

Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Spiketbear » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)

Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes

Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.

That is why Kai is necessary.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:39 pm

Spiketbear wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)

Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes

Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.

That is why Kai is necessary.

I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Scsigs » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:09 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Spiketbear wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)

Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes

Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.

That is why Kai is necessary.

I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.


My god, you're such a goddamn pessimist. You keep bumming me out.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Gog » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:01 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
Spiketbear wrote:
Faisal Shourov wrote:Yes, Kai has cut of 85-90% of the fillers which DBZ was mocked for and heavily criticized. Kai has well paced fights and the dub has good voice acting (although many people miss Faulkner music)

Just like Hunter x Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist, the remakes were necessary to make lots of improvements. You can actually now recommend people to watch DBZ because of Kai, they won't be scared by the number of episodes

Lol, this is true. My wife hates anime, so getting her to watch all of DB, Z, GT, and 20 movies would be impossible. Instead, we watched DB, Kai, and the History of Trunks. Shockingly, she didn't hurl or leap out of a window. She actually kind of enjoyed it.

That is why Kai is necessary.

I mean... not really. She never watched the original, you have no idea whether she'd enjoy it or not. In fact, if you like Kai, that's a pretty good indicator that you'd like all of the extra world-building that the original gave us.


Your right, all 400 episodes of filler for it, coupled with the embarrassingly bad voice acting and the terrible music, she sure needs to watch 400 episodes, which are mostly filler, and even include a three hour long fight scene. Sure needs to watch it over Kai's 60 episode series, which haven't even breached a 100 yet. She sure needs to go see the original :roll:

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby sintzu » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:13 pm

Gog wrote:Your right, all 400 episodes of filler for it, coupled with the embarrassingly bad voice acting and the terrible music.


Don't foeget about funimation's "remastering" for fans who can't get the dragon boxes.

Kai is truly the best thing that happened to Z, it has flaws for sure but it's nowhere near as hard to watch as Z is.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby gipset » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:24 pm

You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up. It's very enticing for fans from the first airing to watch something from their childhood "remastered" and with the fat trimmed. One doesn't replace the other, they exist simultaneously.

Also, Kai was a great way to introduce DB to a new generation, which I think is the reason why we've seen a DB resurgence in the first place. Kai had to happen for everything that came after it.

I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:29 pm

gipset wrote:You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up.

That's because it never happened. The Kanzenban was running until 2004 (I think?). Dragon Ball didn't hit the height of its western popularity in 07 coinciding with the first affordable release of the entire series, the Orange Bricks. The video games were still popular until 07 or whereabouts. The Japanese home release didn't finish until just before Kai began. Also, Dragon Ball Heroes became a thing right around that time.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby gipset » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:46 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
gipset wrote:You guys are forgetting the fact that many people completely forgot DB existed until Kai popped up.

That's because it never happened. The Kanzenban was running until 2004 (I think?). Dragon Ball didn't hit the height of its western popularity in 07 coinciding with the first affordable release of the entire series, the Orange Bricks. The video games were still popular until 07 or whereabouts. The Japanese home release didn't finish until just before Kai began. Also, Dragon Ball Heroes became a thing right around that time.


I'm not familiar with the sales figures of all these products in Japan, but you're saying that the popularity 10 years ago was as big as it is today?

Also, it doesn't seem like you're considering international markets either. I can only speak for the US, but DB was still relevant in 2010, but nothing like when it was airing on Toonami back in the day.

Lastly, when I said most people, I'm not talking about us nerds who post on message boards. I'm talking about your normal average person.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:11 pm

gipset wrote:iit doesn't seem like you're considering international markets either. I can only speak for the US, but DB was still relevant in 2010, but nothing like when it was airing on Toonami back in the day.

Lastly, when I said most people, I'm not talking about us nerds who post on message boards. I'm talking about your normal average person.

How could something aimed at your average casual be necessary? Also, I did mention the Orange Bricks and video games, which were popular among casual, western audience well in (and largely indifferent to) Kai's lifespan.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:36 pm

gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.


I have two theories as to why this is the case.

1. Kai wasn't a big success in Japan. The existing Kai merchandise was failing, and since the anime is seen as a promotional tool there was little incentive to carry on. When Kai ended TOEI were probably happy to just move on to a new Dragon Ball series with mostly new stories because Battle of Gods and Resurrection F showed that's where the money is at without the burden of funding the voice actors to record an optional audio track for the international market's home releases.

2. I know some have speculated that a Kai of the original Dragon Ball could be made for the international market (much like The Final Chapters was originally) but the only problem with that is that the original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the dubbing companies (including Funimation) that would be involved.

There would be some market for it certainly. I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:44 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series. We can only hope they'll redub and "remaster" it so that the same new generation can see how DB is just as good as Z.


Two reasons.

1. Kai wasn't a big success in Japan. The existing Kai merchandise was failing, and since the anime is seen as a promotional tool there was little incentive to carry on.

2. I know some have speculated that a Kai of the original Dragon Ball could be made for the international market (much like The Final Chapters was originally) but the only problem with that is that the original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the dubbing companies (including Funimation) that would be involved.

There would be some market for it certainly. I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.

There's an even bigger reason the a Kai of the old material wouldn't work. A ton of the comedy, mostly the visual humor, wouldn't fly with the current broadcast standards, not to mention the time slot. You'll also notice that in Kai, Gohan's genitals were censored, the same thing would likely be necessary here, and we all know how much the storyboarders loved Goku's penis.

There are other reasons, as well, notably that they wouldn't be able to cut that much filler. The whole idea just doesn't work with the old material.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby simtek34 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:You'll also notice that in Kai, Gohan's genitals were censored, the same thing would likely be necessary here, and we all know how much the storyboarders loved Goku's penis.
God, you're right! They would have to pull an Ocean and censor it to hell! I don't want any of this!
If it was released straight-to-home-video (Knowing Toei, it wont.) It probably would have no censorship! And lets hope they don't censor it just in case they pull a Boo Kai and have it replace a different show
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:14 pm

simtek34 wrote:If it was released straight-to-home-video (Knowing Toei, it wont.) It probably would have no censorship! And lets hope they don't censor it just in case they pull a Boo Kai and have it replace a different show

It would be useless to Kai it only for a home release. They'd make no profit from it, and I doubt that merchandise sales would increase. Pre-Z Kai is just never happening.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby sintzu » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:26 pm

gipset wrote:I'm surprised they haven't announced a kai version of the original DB series.


I'm not cause the companies behind the franchise act like it doesn't exist.

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:The original Dragon Ball doesn't have the selling power of Z so its doubtful it would be a profitable endeavour for the companies that would be involved.


For the longest time DB has been treated as Goku's unimportant adventures as a kid so those companies have a major role to play in its lack of popularity.

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:I'd welcome an original series Kai with open arms and buy all the Blu-Rays but much like the Ocean Kai dub it would take a small miracle for it to happen.


We thought that about the Buu saga so you never know but it's very less likely than Buu was.

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They wouldn't be able to cut that much filler.


If you skip the whole filler episodes then you'll get 133 which is 20 less than 153 so they'll probably be able to get it down to 120-125 episodes.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:51 pm

sintzu wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They wouldn't be able to cut that much filler.


If you skip the whole filler episodes then you'll get 133 which is 20 less than 153 so they'll probably be able to get it down to 120-125 episodes.

That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby sintzu » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:05 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.


It's not much but it's better than nothing plus we'd get an HD remaster and a redub.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:08 am

sintzu wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:That's a ridiculously low amount of episodes cut. The way you phrased it made it sound like you disagreeing, but you've proved my point.


It's not much but it's better than nothing plus we'd get an HD remaster and a redub.

Sure, and everyone gets free candy at the beginning of every week, and airports come with complimentary cotton candy, and there are free money stands around every corner.

You get the idea. It's a nice thought, but not practical.
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