Was Kai Necessary

Discussion specifically regarding the "refreshed" TV version of DBZ created in Japan for its 20th anniversary, including individual threads for each episode.

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sintzu
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby sintzu » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:47 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:You do realize that we would have gotten the exact same shitty animation we got with Super if Toei reanimated Z, do you?


It probably would've been worse due to it not being a new show.

The majority of the episodes would've looked like Super's ep5.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:34 pm

I doubt we would gotten Super and the last two movies without Kai. Before Kai came out, the series ended over a decade ago. I would imagine most younger kids in Japan probably never watch or read the series. So I'm glad that Kai was made for a new generation. I also find it easier to rewatch DBZ since the old DBZ can be a chore to watch sometimes.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby kei17 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:28 pm

It was totally pointless for the Japanese market. It didn't help increase the merchandising sales at all, but Heroes did.

Its biggest exploit might be kicking out Yamamoto, the biggest stain on the franchise, before his plagiarism erodes new movies, which must have been a much bigger mess than what we actually had. Also, it at least made Toei realize that they need to produce something actually new to entertain people.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Kuririn Fan » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:24 pm

For me it was, i am totally fine with Zs filler (if you dont want filler, there is manga) and it kinda ruined the flow of DB/Z/GT because it sounds like a new part of the series but its just Z without filler and cleaned up. It also had a LOT of problems and bad luck in Japan.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby yamu » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:55 am

I don't know if I would call it necessary, but it came off like a successful experiment. Maybe if dbz wasn't getting so much new material, I might have seen Kai as a way to renew interest in the show, but due to the delay in the Boo saga, as well as the movies and Super, any potential impact might have gotten lost in the shuffle. I still appreciated the effort behind Kai nonetheless.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby buutenks » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:55 am

Much better pacing.

While as a kid i thoroughly enjoyed old dbz,now as an adult i could never bring myself to watch a saga from start to finish,to much filler.But db kai,resolves that problem.Plus the dub is closer to the manga than the old dbz dub ever was.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby DB_Fan1991 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:30 pm

For Japan, no as the original DBZ was fine as-is, but for the English speaking world, hell yes. The new English dub is fantastic. This is the dub we should have gotten back in the 90's. It and the new movies are the only DB related things I can watch dubbed without cringing every 5 seconds.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Basaku » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:37 am

kei17 wrote:It was totally pointless for the Japanese market.

Bringing back old show before moving onto new sequel is never pointless even if merch sales didn't increase. Millions of kids from new generation watched the show and along with new movies it build solid ground for Super.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby kei17 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:44 pm

Basaku wrote:
kei17 wrote:It was totally pointless for the Japanese market.

Bringing back old show before moving onto new sequel is never pointless even if merch sales didn't increase. Millions of kids from new generation watched the show and along with new movies it build solid ground for Super.

I forgot the source, but the majority of Kai's audience in Japan was consist of the upper age bracket, which means that it didn't appeal to younger generations. Also, unlike the North American market, the original manga is much easier to access and Z is still running on TV nonstop. It's not that Kai didn't bring any youger fans to the franchise at all, but it sure hardly served its purpose.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Basaku » Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:46 pm

kei17 wrote:I forgot the source, but the majority of Kai's audience in Japan was consist of the upper age bracket, which means that it didn't appeal to younger generations. Also, unlike the North American market, the original manga is much easier to access and Z is still running on TV nonstop. It's not that Kai didn't bring any youger fans to the franchise at all, but it sure hardly served its purpose.

Well if the purpouse was to get as much $$$ from merch sales as if it was brand new show then of course it would never happen and Toei must've been high if they thought it would work with 20-year old stuff. Kids aint dumb. But it still matters that the brand has much larger presence and visibility.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Bagginses » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:03 am

Yes, I think it was necessary, because without Kai we would never have a ''filler-less'' version of DBZ (yes, I know that quite a bit of filler is still kept, but even then, I'd say it is safe to claim that more than 50% of it was cut). The original Dragon Ball doesn't suffer as badly from filler as does the Z series. So, where it's most needed, we have a filler-less version. In fact, I think the whole point/purpose of Kai from the start was to have the useless padding/filler removed (so it is a purpose even the Japanese version would have). So, in short, Kai is a welcome addition to the franchise, in my humble opinion.

Now that I am thinking about it, maybe it would be an interesting idea for the original series to receive the same treatment. But I think that's not very likely to happen (actually, that's an understatement). Also, like I said previously, it does not need removal of filler as strongly as it's sequel.

Ok, that's my two cents. :)

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby B » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:35 pm

Basaku wrote:
kei17 wrote:It was totally pointless for the Japanese market.

Bringing back old show before moving onto new sequel is never pointless even if merch sales didn't increase. Millions of kids from new generation watched the show and along with new movies it build solid ground for Super.

This post assumes that Super was anywhere close to a reality when Kai was formed in 2009. I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be a meeting where some executive goes "hey, if this does well, we create X and Y", but all known information points to that not being definitively the case. If anything, Kai led to the creation of the new films(which led to Super) because of its failure; the official companies involved had to take a big loss to realize they need new material to sell to consumers.

In Toei's ideal world, they would never have to extend money or effort on anything and we would buy it all blindly. If Kai "built solid ground" for Super, it did so retroactively. We learned of Super three months before it aired; there's no planning or long-term thinking going on when something like that happens.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Basaku » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:09 am

B wrote:This post assumes that Super was anywhere close to a reality when Kai was formed in 2009. I'm not saying it's impossible for there to be a meeting where some executive goes "hey, if this does well, we create X and Y", but all known information points to that not being definitively the case.
No, I'm talking about anything that could've followed Kai. Clearly Toei's plan wasn't "let's do Kai and then nothing for 20 years and merch sales will surely stay stable". In the ever increasingly competetive entertainment industry staying in public's view is important even for old franchises. I don't think for a second they had any solid plan what to do next but they obviously knew something would follow sooner or later and Kai would help it and the entire brand at least stay afloat.

B wrote:If anything, Kai led to the creation of the new films(which led to Super) because of its failure; the official companies involved had to take a big loss to realize they need new material to sell to consumers.
Like I said in some other thread, Kai's failure has been rather overblown (and Heroes overplayed, particularly on international scale where Heroes doesn't matter in a bit). Obviously it didn't increase merch sales like Toei hoped and no shock there, it was all old stuff, but at least it kept the show in the public's mind, both in Japan and internationally. I think the series would be in worse position and harder to 'come back' in a way it did if Kai didn't happen. Last thing - no one took a loss on anything, big difference between lower merch sales and taking a loss in case of Bandai, Shueisha or Toei.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Hellspawn28 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:30 pm

kei17 wrote: Also, unlike the North American market, the original manga is much easier to access and Z is still running on TV nonstop. It's not that Kai didn't bring any youger fans to the franchise at all, but it sure hardly served its purpose.


But does normal DBZ still run on Sunday mornings? I hear kids shows on Sunday mornings on TV are more popular with kids under 13 in Japan.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Jerry Mouse » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:37 pm

What is filler? Is DVD version of kai have less episodes than dbz?

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby ekrolo2 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:29 am

Jerry Mouse wrote:What is filler? Is DVD version of kai have less episodes than dbz?


Filler is anything from extra scenes to longer fights to entire story arcs not found in the original version of the story in the manga. DBZ had lots of it which Kai cut out a good 90% of, making it shorter than DBZ but also a lot better paced.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Naruto6583 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 3:51 am

Jerry Mouse wrote:What is filler? Is DVD version of kai have less episodes than dbz?

Dragon Ball Z had 291 episodes kai has 167 episodes after removing 90% of the filler
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby Froggy » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:06 pm

Hero wrote:Now with Kai all done from the Saiyan to the Buu arcs, do you feel Kai was a necessary inclusion to the franchise? A lot of the complaints I hear from people are that it wasn't reanimated (though with Super's track record I'm glad Kai wasn't), the music scandal, there still being filler and other stuff. But I feel Kai was necessary because of the dub.

For the record, I love the original dub and the Faulconer OST and always will, but there's no denying that the Funimation dubbing in Kai is miles better. For me and other people like me we now have three solid products: the original Japanese version to see the anime in its original version, the original Funi dub for nostalgia and the Kai Funi dub to see the better, dare I say "definitive" English version.

I haven't seen much of the Japanese Kai dub so I can't judge it, but for English dub fans for myself, I consider Kai a necessity.
kai's music is amazing and it fixed many lines that confused the plot. also seeing DBZ running again is always fun.
unfortunately they left many fillers intact while removing gore and violent scenes, which sucks.

so i guess kai has its pros and cons.

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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby sintzu » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:26 pm

Froggy wrote:Unfortunately they left many fillers intact.


A lot of what they left in couldn't be removed due to it being too integrated into the Manga's story.
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Re: Was Kai Necessary

Postby VegetaSSJG » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:30 am

1.It introduced new and younger audiences to the franchise.

2.Even though it wasn't fully re-animated,it still touched up the animation here and there,and gave us overall better quality.

3.I can't say much about the dub since I never finished Z(the anime at least),but from what I can see,it has pretty good voice acting and dubbing.A bit more controversially,Chris Ayers is more often than not considered as a better portrayal of Frieza.

4.Cut filler gives a faster pace if you want to rush through the series.

5.Some people might prefer the Japanese music over Falconer's score.

So:
Was it necessary?No.
Is it better than Z?Maybe.
Did it bring in cash for Toei?Hell yes.And in the end,that's why they even bothered doing Kai in the first place anyway.
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