Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

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Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by TVfan721 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:37 pm

What exactly should I expect with the Kikuchi soundtrack put back in? Cause I heard it's terrible and really ruins everything due to the tracks just being thrown in without any regard about where they belong.

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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by theoriginalbilis » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:37 pm

For the most part, the placement is just fine. There are a couple (rare) instances of very upbeat music backing a scene that's supposed to be more serious. Or more dramatic music inserted into lighter moments (like the recap of Dragon Ball in Ep. 1).

If you marathon a big chunk of episodes in a row, you may notice some repeated BGM tracks.

The only real problem I had with Kai's Kikuchi replacement was the fact that they got rid of a couple of vocal songs.

To sum up, it could be better, but it's fine for the most part IMO.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by TVfan721 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:54 pm

Is it true that Funimation themselves did the track placement for the dub? I heard something about TOEI and Funi both being responsible for doing the track placement for their own versions. I've looked on youtube and seen like 3 different versions of Kai Kikuchi scenes.

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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by theoriginalbilis » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:10 am

From what I understand, Toei did all of the score replacement themselves. However, some earlier eps may have had gotten temp tracks laid down so they could be sent to Japanese stations that ran Kai re-runs or sent to international broadcasts very quickly. I'm pretty certain that the music you hear on the Kai Parts Five - Eight and "Season" releases contain the final versions of the replacement scores.

I know there were some versions of Kai episodes with different placements of Yamamoto's score that only briefly aired on some Japanese stations or on international channels like Nicktoons shortly after the music scandal new broke out.

I hope some members who are more up-to-date on the Kai score replacement shenanigans could chime in to confirm or deny.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:35 am

tvfan721 wrote:What exactly should I expect with the Kikuchi soundtrack put back in? Cause I heard it's terrible and really ruins everything due to the tracks just being thrown in without any regard about where they belong.
The Dub Kikuchi Tracks in Z are almost exactly the same as the Japanese, I believe you're thinking of DB Kai's placement.

As for my opinion for the Z Dub with Kikuchi... well, it depends. First of all, they removed some tracks (and portions of tracks) if they had any vocals, I understand the reason, but man, did it make some of those amazing moments feel dull. Secondly, the Kikuchi mix is 5.1 only. This means that unless you're using a surround setup, the music levels do not blend well with everything else. Thirdly and lastly, the English Dub had many changes, one of which was adding in non-stop dialogue. The Kikuchi score was not made with this in mind, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when everyone's rambling on and on with nothing but silence in the background. The bad voice acting is only icing on the cake. While I don't like Faulconer's score, I have to admit that it compliments the Dub far better than Kikuchi's.

In my opinion, the Kikuchi Dub Mix doesn't deserve to see the light of day unless you want to watch the DBZ Dub in surround.
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by TVfan721 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:39 am

What an absolute mess. I'll pass. Thanks guys for the info.

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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:44 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
tvfan721 wrote:What exactly should I expect with the Kikuchi soundtrack put back in? Cause I heard it's terrible and really ruins everything due to the tracks just being thrown in without any regard about where they belong.
The Dub Kikuchi Tracks in Z are almost exactly the same as the Japanese, I believe you're thinking of DB Kai's placement.

As for my opinion for the Z Dub with Kikuchi... well, it depends. First of all, they removed some tracks (and portions of tracks) if they had any vocals, I understand the reason, but man, did it make some of those amazing moments feel dull. Secondly, the Kikuchi mix is 5.1 only. This means that unless you're using a surround setup, the music levels do not blend well with everything else. Thirdly and lastly, the English Dub had many changes, one of which was adding in non-stop dialogue. The Kikuchi score was not made with this in mind, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when everyone's rambling on and on with nothing but silence in the background. The bad voice acting is only icing on the cake. While I don't like Faulconer's score, I have to admit that it compliments the Dub far better than Kikuchi's.

In my opinion, the Kikuchi Dub Mix doesn't deserve to see the light of day unless you want to watch the DBZ Dub in surround.
I assumed when I was first responding that this was referring to the Kikuchi Dub Mix introduced with the release of the Orange Bricks, but it seems that this might be a discussion about Kai (you really need to clarify in the description).

First off, Funimation didn't replace any tracks in Kai, that was done by Toei, and has been in every release since Yamamoto's scandal. As for the placement, it's not great, but not bad either. They took a Yamamoto track, found a Kikuchi track that conveyed a similar tone, and transplanted it using the exact timing that was used for the Yamamoto Placement. All that I can say is that they could have put more thought into it, but it isn't bad.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by TVfan721 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:03 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I assumed when I was first responding that this was referring to the Kikuchi Dub Mix introduced with the release of the Orange Bricks, but it seems that this might be a discussion about Kai (you really need to clarify in the description).
No I don't need to clarify. You need to check what section of the forum a thread is in before replying. This thread of mine is CLEARLY in the Kai section of Kanzenshuu which means that it's CLEARLY referring to Kai.

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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by theoriginalbilis » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:22 am

Even though this topic should be focused on Kai, I will say that the Kai dub with the Kikuchi score is less of a clusterfuck (script and performance-wise) than the original FUNi dub with the Kikuchi score.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:14 pm

TVfan721 wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I assumed when I was first responding that this was referring to the Kikuchi Dub Mix introduced with the release of the Orange Bricks, but it seems that this might be a discussion about Kai (you really need to clarify in the description).
No I don't need to clarify. You need to check what section of the forum a thread is in before replying. This thread of mine is CLEARLY in the Kai section of Kanzenshuu which means that it's CLEARLY referring to Kai.
I attend a lot of forums where people post things in the wrong section, so I often don't pay much attention to which it's in. The section totally slipped my notice. Nevertheless, you're right, I should get in the habit of checking.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Danfun64 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:12 pm

There was a chart somewhere which showed when Fuji TV (I think?), Japanese Blu Ray, Japanese DVD, Nicktoons, and US Blu Ray/DVD stopped releasing "new" material with Yamamoto, but I don't know where, and its missing the CW and the Latin American dubs.

As for the Kikuchi replacement score, it was the only version released in much of Europe. Perhaps a more appropriate question (for Kai) is how well the replacement score did with dubs made after the Yamamoto scandal.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:46 am

Danfun64 wrote:There was a chart somewhere which showed when Fuji TV (I think?), Japanese Blu Ray, Japanese DVD, Nicktoons, and US Blu Ray/DVD stopped releasing "new" material with Yamamoto, but I don't know where, and its missing the CW and the Latin American dubs.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 am

It really depends how critical you are of the music placement.

Personally I enjoy it for the most part. It's not bad by any means but it's not great either. I prefer the Kikuchi-Kai track to the Yamamoto score because it retains that Dragon Ball-esqe feel.

There are some awkward placements here and there, and a lot of repeated tracks, but if you can ignore the former and tolerate the latter you'll have no problem with it.

Also, if you like watching Dragon Ball in English the Kikchi-Kai track is the way to go. Best way of seeing the dub.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by OmegaRockman » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:43 am

I personally love it. While I do enjoy Yamamoto and the Kikuchi Kai placements aren't as good or varied as Z's, hearing Kikuchi in DB just feels right. Also, I genuinely think that the Kikuchi Kai placement for Goku's first SSJ transformation is better than the Yamamoto placement. The Kikuchi track used is much more intense than the Yamamoto track used, which I found a bit underwhelming even before the scandal.
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Re: Need honest, in-depth opinions on the Funimation dub WITH Kikuchi music.

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:18 pm

...turns out the chart is missing the Nicktoons broadcasts (and the online Nicktoons stuff), let alone the CW and Latin American broadcasts...

edit: As for the topic at hand, IIRC most of the Kai Kikuchi stuff consists of music from the later sagas, like music from the Cell saga being used in the Saiyan saga and character themes are used without reference to their characters, like Piccolo's Bells theme being used as the recap theme for at least some episodes, a variation of Gohan's theme for episode titles. When you've seen Z with Kikuchi in any language (except Hindi, Speedy Movie 9, Latino Harmony Gold or any other pre Kai dub that either adds or partially replaces the music (the former to be "consistent" with how Levi and Faulconer scored stuff non stop, the ladder two because of a lack of M/E audio) ) and associate certain groups of tunes for certain sagas, or certain themes with certain sagas, it can be a little annoying. It's probably more tolerable for languages where the Kai dub is an outright improvement (not counting the English dub, not only for containing Yamamoto til the halfway point, but also providing surround sound audio which allows for the music to be replaced) like the French, Catalan, and Gallego dubs, thanks to the superior scripts they had compared to their original Z dubs.

As for Kikuchi with the original and remastered Funi dubs of Z (pre-Kai), Kikuchi is better for Seasons 1 & 2 (my opinion, which is shared by many, is that Johnson is a poor mans version of the Levi score, and the Levi score itself is inferior to Kikuchi and Faulconer IMO.), Faulconer is better the rest of the way, though Kikuchi is apparently listenable starting with the second half of the Cell saga.

That being said, though Faulconer has several good tracks, I prefer Kikuchi overall when it comes to DBZ. It's a shame his music is at times completely mismatched with the dub...
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