Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:50 pm

Vegard Aune wrote:
szopman wrote:Really? The americans added this episode as DB Kai's ep ? :) I didn't know 'cause I would never watch DB with american dubbing, I can't stand it :D I prefer original japanese voices with subtitles ;)

Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters was created by Toei specifically for the international markets. They had no intention of airing it on Japanese TV, though they still recorded dialogue for the whole thing for the benefit of said international markets. Then when Toriko crashed and burned for them they decided to put it on TV anyway, but in order to fit it into the timeslot they had, they had to cut it down from its original 69 episode run (which, by the way, is an utterly ridiculous number of episodes for the faster version of an arc that was originally 91 episodes, in an anime notorious for its padding. They hardly removed any of it), and so some episodes were combined, some episodes were cut, and they also took the chance to do some minor clean-up and music-changes and such. So no, the dubbers didn't add episodes. Toei simply provided other countries with a longer version of the show than what they themselves put out. And said longer version was the original in this case.


If they intended it for non-Japanese...why would they record the dialogue in Japanese, then?

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:59 pm

I deeply dislike even the concept of this thread, no one can tell you how much you'll enjoy Kai. I don't like Kai for a multitude of reasons, but even if I pick apart everything wrong with it for the quintilianth time, it won't effect your viewing experience at all.

The first set of the "Parts" release is available for about $10 USD on the used market last I checked. Buy it, watch it, if you don't like it, don't buy the rest. If you do like it, buy all 4 Season Sets.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby AzuraRacon » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:53 pm

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
Vegard Aune wrote:
szopman wrote:Really? The americans added this episode as DB Kai's ep ? :) I didn't know 'cause I would never watch DB with american dubbing, I can't stand it :D I prefer original japanese voices with subtitles ;)

Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters was created by Toei specifically for the international markets. They had no intention of airing it on Japanese TV, though they still recorded dialogue for the whole thing for the benefit of said international markets. Then when Toriko crashed and burned for them they decided to put it on TV anyway, but in order to fit it into the timeslot they had, they had to cut it down from its original 69 episode run (which, by the way, is an utterly ridiculous number of episodes for the faster version of an arc that was originally 91 episodes, in an anime notorious for its padding. They hardly removed any of it), and so some episodes were combined, some episodes were cut, and they also took the chance to do some minor clean-up and music-changes and such. So no, the dubbers didn't add episodes. Toei simply provided other countries with a longer version of the show than what they themselves put out. And said longer version was the original in this case.


If they intended it for non-Japanese...why would they record the dialogue in Japanese, then?



Most companies nowadays do bilingual home releases, with the regional language as the default and the option to switch to Japanese and watch with subtitles
The international companies that requested the creation of the Final Chapters likely requested a Japanese dub be provided as well

Also, when you have a show being dubbed into several dofferent languages, it helps a lot to have an existing source dub to base performances and scripts on

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:31 pm

AzuraRacon wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
Vegard Aune wrote:Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters was created by Toei specifically for the international markets. They had no intention of airing it on Japanese TV, though they still recorded dialogue for the whole thing for the benefit of said international markets. Then when Toriko crashed and burned for them they decided to put it on TV anyway, but in order to fit it into the timeslot they had, they had to cut it down from its original 69 episode run (which, by the way, is an utterly ridiculous number of episodes for the faster version of an arc that was originally 91 episodes, in an anime notorious for its padding. They hardly removed any of it), and so some episodes were combined, some episodes were cut, and they also took the chance to do some minor clean-up and music-changes and such. So no, the dubbers didn't add episodes. Toei simply provided other countries with a longer version of the show than what they themselves put out. And said longer version was the original in this case.


If they intended it for non-Japanese...why would they record the dialogue in Japanese, then?



Most companies nowadays do bilingual home releases, with the regional language as the default and the option to switch to Japanese and watch with subtitles
The international companies that requested the creation of the Final Chapters likely requested a Japanese dub be provided as well


Also, when you have a show being dubbed into several dofferent languages, it helps a lot to have an existing source dub to base performances and scripts on


The difference is that most, if not all, anime is made for Japanese audiences. Anime made for Westerners, use English VA's. Like Afro Samurai, VHD Bloodlust, & Animatrix. If this was for French audiences first, it should've been recorded in French. It seems rather strange to pay an AAA cast a ton of money to record 70 episodes, if you're intention isnt to air them. If the question was to import it back to Japan eventually, I may understand that. But there are several American-based anime (WB/Disney etc), like PPGZ, Stitch, Marvel anime, that they did in Japanese & dubbed back into English..so why didnt Toei do it in French, then dub it back into Japanese for the later Japanese release? Arguably, shouldnt the original language of DB Kai 2.0 be French?

Ultimately, we arrive at the point that they are reusing Japanese-synced animation from 1994, but still, it's a huge waste of money to record a VO track if you're not releasing it.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby BlazingFiddlesticks » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:10 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I deeply dislike even the concept of this thread, no one can tell you how much you'll enjoy Kai.


...which is why the poster is asking for other people's opinions...
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Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.


Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.


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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby AzuraRacon » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:12 am

I'm sure it would have seen Japanese release in some format eventually, but Japanese dubs of anime not intended to be released in japan aren't unheard of
Sonic X's "third season", the Metarex arc, was also created solely to be used internationally due to the success of overseas releases, and only more recently saw a Japan release via streaming services, but a Japanese dub existed at the time of creation

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby ZodaEX » Thu May 04, 2017 6:27 pm

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
AzuraRacon wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
If they intended it for non-Japanese...why would they record the dialogue in Japanese, then?



Most companies nowadays do bilingual home releases, with the regional language as the default and the option to switch to Japanese and watch with subtitles
The international companies that requested the creation of the Final Chapters likely requested a Japanese dub be provided as well


Also, when you have a show being dubbed into several dofferent languages, it helps a lot to have an existing source dub to base performances and scripts on


The difference is that most, if not all, anime is made for Japanese audiences. Anime made for Westerners, use English VA's. Like Afro Samurai, VHD Bloodlust, & Animatrix. If this was for French audiences first, it should've been recorded in French. It seems rather strange to pay an AAA cast a ton of money to record 70 episodes, if you're intention isnt to air them. If the question was to import it back to Japan eventually, I may understand that. But there are several American-based anime (WB/Disney etc), like PPGZ, Stitch, Marvel anime, that they did in Japanese & dubbed back into English..so why didnt Toei do it in French, then dub it back into Japanese for the later Japanese release? Arguably, shouldnt the original language of DB Kai 2.0 be French?

Ultimately, we arrive at the point that they are reusing Japanese-synced animation from 1994, but still, it's a huge waste of money to record a VO track if you're not releasing it.


What the heck is PPGZ? I come to this forum almost every day and have never heard of it.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby Metalwario64 » Thu May 04, 2017 10:46 pm

Man... I'm trying to enjoy my first Buu Kai set, but I'm really not liking Sumitomo's score, and the dub's mixing's a bit off (sound effects and music are a bit too loud in the first 2 discs, and the sound effects are muffled in the 3rd and 4th ones). Plus, some of the editing is a bit sloppy. I've been rewatching Z in Japanese, since I haven't done so in quite a few years, and I'd forgotten how much better the music really is, and I even prefer lots of the filler added to the Saiyan arc, and I enjoy all of the filler with Goku training for Namek in Z. The haphazard Kikuchi placement and sometimes abrupt and sloppy editing really brings Kai down for me, and Z had way better openings and endings. If it wasn't for the dub, I wouldn't really have any interest in it, honestly.

Even then, I'd probably rather just watch Z in Japanese at this point, but Kai's good for watching with my Dad at least, since while he will watch subs, he prefers dubs because his vision isn't the best anymore.

ZodaEX wrote:What the heck is PPGZ? I come to this forum almost every day and have never heard of it.

Power Puff Girls Z. Basically, animefied version of Power Puff Girls.

At least it's probably not as bad as that new series they made recently. :sick:
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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Thu May 04, 2017 11:12 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:Man... I'm trying to enjoy my first Buu Kai set, but I'm really not liking Sumitomo's score, and the dub's mixing's a bit off (sound effects and music are a bit too loud in the first 2 discs, and the sound effects are muffled in the 3rd and 4th ones). Plus, some of the editing is a bit sloppy. I've been rewatching Z in Japanese, since I haven't done so in quite a few years, and I'd forgotten how much better the music really is, and I even prefer lots of the filler added to the Saiyan arc, and I enjoy all of the filler with Goku training for Namek in Z. The haphazard Kikuchi placement and sometimes abrupt and sloppy editing really brings Kai down for me, and Z had way better openings and endings. If it wasn't for the dub, I wouldn't really have any interest in it, honestly.

Even then, I'd probably rather just watch Z in Japanese at this point, but Kai's good for watching with my Dad at least, since while he will watch subs, he prefers dubs because his vision isn't the best anymore.

ZodaEX wrote:What the heck is PPGZ? I come to this forum almost every day and have never heard of it.

Power Puff Girls Z. Basically, animefied version of Power Puff Girls.

At least it's probably not as bad as that new series they made recently. :sick:

Funny, I was in the position of not enjoying Kai at all, but I suddenly lost the ability to read subtitles without becoming nauseated, and Kai (accompanied by Funimation's dub) has really grown on me. It's marginally worse, but still basically the same thing as Z, and I can live with that.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Thu May 04, 2017 11:21 pm

ZodaEX wrote:What the heck is PPGZ? I come to this forum almost every day and have never heard of it.


PowerPuffGirls Z is an anime adaptation of PowerPuffGirls.

While I'm at it...

AzuraRacon wrote:I'm sure it would have seen Japanese release in some format eventually, but Japanese dubs of anime not intended to be released in japan aren't unheard of Sonic X's "third season", the Metarex arc, was also created solely to be used internationally due to the success of overseas releases, and only more recently saw a Japan release via streaming services, but a Japanese dub existed at the time of creation


I'm not sure why this would be the case, honestly. It seems rather unfair to the actors that actually being end up heard (in SonicX's case, 4Kids) & seems rather strange & awkward as a recording process. I can only assume it's because of economic reasons..

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby simtek34 » Fri May 05, 2017 8:00 am

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
AzuraRacon wrote:I'm sure it would have seen Japanese release in some format eventually, but Japanese dubs of anime not intended to be released in japan aren't unheard of Sonic X's "third season", the Metarex arc, was also created solely to be used internationally due to the success of overseas releases, and only more recently saw a Japan release via streaming services, but a Japanese dub existed at the time of creation

I'm not sure why this would be the case, honestly. It seems rather unfair to the actors that actually being end up heard (in SonicX's case, 4Kids) & seems rather strange & awkward as a recording process. I can only assume it's because of economic reasons..


With Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters, 4Kids commissioned NAS and TV Tokyo to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! movie, The Pyramid of Light, which at lease got a Japanese release in theaters and DVD. (Even though Japan was on YGOGX) Also with Yu-Gi-Oh!, 4Kids also Commissioned a mini-series, Capsule Monsters, which was made in Japanese, but not released there, only dubbed in many languages. 11 Years later, and still no Japanese release, on discs or online.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Fri May 05, 2017 3:26 pm

simtek34 wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
AzuraRacon wrote:I'm sure it would have seen Japanese release in some format eventually, but Japanese dubs of anime not intended to be released in japan aren't unheard of Sonic X's "third season", the Metarex arc, was also created solely to be used internationally due to the success of overseas releases, and only more recently saw a Japan release via streaming services, but a Japanese dub existed at the time of creation

I'm not sure why this would be the case, honestly. It seems rather unfair to the actors that actually being end up heard (in SonicX's case, 4Kids) & seems rather strange & awkward as a recording process. I can only assume it's because of economic reasons..


With Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters, 4Kids commissioned NAS and TV Tokyo to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! movie, The Pyramid of Light, which at lease got a Japanese release in theaters and DVD. (Even though Japan was on YGOGX) Also with Yu-Gi-Oh!, 4Kids also Commissioned a mini-series, Capsule Monsters, which was made in Japanese, but not released there, only dubbed in many languages. 11 Years later, and still no Japanese release, on discs or online.


This is pretty much the exact same scenario as Sonic X (& somewhat similar to Big O). These were both done in Japanese; I think the only time I can think of JP media in English natively might be Animatrix & Batman Gotham Knight. Marvel anime is similar, however for some reason it was done in JP first; I wonder why that is?

I'm not sure why exactly the audience's language isn't kept in mind here; I'm sure it's more comfortable financially to do it natively, however I'm not quite sure what makes the differences in operation here.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby 8000 Saiyan » Fri May 05, 2017 6:02 pm

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
simtek34 wrote:
huzaifa_ahmed wrote:I'm not sure why this would be the case, honestly. It seems rather unfair to the actors that actually being end up heard (in SonicX's case, 4Kids) & seems rather strange & awkward as a recording process. I can only assume it's because of economic reasons..


With Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters, 4Kids commissioned NAS and TV Tokyo to make a Yu-Gi-Oh! movie, The Pyramid of Light, which at lease got a Japanese release in theaters and DVD. (Even though Japan was on YGOGX) Also with Yu-Gi-Oh!, 4Kids also Commissioned a mini-series, Capsule Monsters, which was made in Japanese, but not released there, only dubbed in many languages. 11 Years later, and still no Japanese release, on discs or online.


This is pretty much the exact same scenario as Sonic X (& somewhat similar to Big O). These were both done in Japanese; I think the only time I can think of JP media in English natively might be Animatrix & Batman Gotham Knight. Marvel anime is similar, however for some reason it was done in JP first; I wonder why that is?

I'm not sure why exactly the audience's language isn't kept in mind here; I'm sure it's more comfortable financially to do it natively, however I'm not quite sure what makes the differences in operation here.

Maybe because it was written and animated in Japan, so they thought it was logical to have the Japanese VA's record first?
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Sat May 06, 2017 1:11 am

8000 Saiyan wrote:Maybe because it was written and animated in Japan, so they thought it was logical to have the Japanese VA's record first?


Who's "they"? The company in charge was 4Kids, & they almost never released the Japanese versions
There were never plans to release it in Japan though; it is for all intents & purposes an American show, in the same way that the Thundercats anime is an American show. Kai 2.0 you could at least make the argument that Toei (rather than an American company) paid for it, however from a creative standpoint it seems entirely illogical to me to (spend money, to boot) record a show no one's ever going to hear.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby DBZ Macky » Sat May 06, 2017 3:51 am

As many have said before, Z is kinda better than Kai in Japanese, not to mention the god-awful green tint in Kai 2.0. The pacing might be improved upon a little bit, but I feel most DBZ filler actually adds to the story and is more entertaining than filler from other shows like Naruto.

However, I've got a few friends who watched the DBZ dub as kids and want to re-watch the series. For them I'd recommend Kai dubbed because the pacing is way better and it's mostly the same English cast that they're used to.

So why not both? Watch Z in Japanese and buy the English dub of Kai.
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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby MrWalnut4 » Sat May 06, 2017 5:32 am

Here's the basic points of view as far as I see them:

If you have seen DBZ dubbed in English, then Kai is much better than Z. 20 years of practice and a more mature Funimation has produced a much more accurate and better acted dub than the original Z.

If you have seen DBZ in Japanese, then Kai is a downgrade from Z. 20 years has aged a lot of the voice actors as well as several being replaced for various reasons such as deaths and complications. A lot of the performances feel phoned in rather than giving the original passion they had in Z (Wakamoto comes to mind immediately).

If you like the pacing in Z, Kai is a novelty that reduces Z to its most basic parts. It cuts every bit of development not included in the manga, and ultimately detracts from the world of Dragon Ball.

If you don't like the pacing in Z, Kai is a welcome cut to the filler of Z. Some may argue that some of the filler adds to the story, but it ultimately drags down on the pacing and story of the manga.

That's about it as far as I can tell. It's up to the person looking at Kai to determine whether or not it is worth purchasing compared to Z (disregarding the changes in Kai 2.0 because that is a whole other can of worms). Music, picture quality, and visual appeal are another story so it's hard to say which is better to be honest. It honestly depends on your priorities and what you want out of it.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby 8000 Saiyan » Sat May 06, 2017 10:07 am

huzaifa_ahmed wrote:
8000 Saiyan wrote:Maybe because it was written and animated in Japan, so they thought it was logical to have the Japanese VA's record first?


Who's "they"? The company in charge was 4Kids, & they almost never released the Japanese versions
There were never plans to release it in Japan though; it is for all intents & purposes an American show, in the same way that the Thundercats anime is an American show. Kai 2.0 you could at least make the argument that Toei (rather than an American company) paid for it, however from a creative standpoint it seems entirely illogical to me to (spend money, to boot) record a show no one's ever going to hear.

4Kids released the Marvel anime series?
"It was deemed to be too awesome." - Scott McNeil on Dragon Ball Kai not being aired yet in Canada.

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Re: Is Dragon Ball Z Kai any good?

Postby huzaifa_ahmed » Sun May 07, 2017 7:10 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:Who's "they"? The company in charge was 4Kids, & they almost never released the Japanese versions
There were never plans to release it in Japan though; it is for all intents & purposes an American show, in the same way that the Thundercats anime is an American show. Kai 2.0 you could at least make the argument that Toei (rather than an American company) paid for it, however from a creative standpoint it seems entirely illogical to me to (spend money, to boot) record a show no one's ever going to hear.

4Kids released the Marvel anime series?[/quote]

No, I meant the Marvel anime is a similar anomaly to 4Kids, what with a US company commissioning an anime.


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