Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:41 pm

Scsigs wrote: You agree with the few people here who said they liked some f the recasts & think there should've been MORE? A lot of the voices fit & are definitely better than the original dub. There was no way they weren't going to keep them.
So, you're agreeing with me?

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:43 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote: You agree with the few people here who said they liked some of the recasts & think there should've been MORE? A lot of the voices fit & are definitely better than the original dub. There was no way they weren't going to keep them.
So, you're agreeing with me?
No. What would make you think that?
I love everyone of the voices & don't think there's anyone that can do better than them for these characters, nor would I want them to attempt to.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:47 pm

Scsigs wrote: No. What would make you think that?
Because you said the "original dub" the same way I did. You meant the original Japanese version? If so, then I definitely disagree. Kai fixed some the things I hated in the original FUNi dub but not everything. I definitely wish there were more recasts.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:58 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote: No. What would make you think that?
Because you said the "original dub" the same way I did. You meant the original Japanese version? If so, then I definitely disagree. Kai fixed some the things I hated in the original FUNi dub but not everything. I definitely wish there were more recasts.
I'm talking English dubs here, not Japanese. When I say "original dub," I mean the original FUNi dub of Z. If I was talking the Japanese version, I would specify as such.
Why would they need to recast anymore than they did? Even then, the recasts are baffling for the main characters replaced for Gohan & Bulma when the original actors were most likely still in Texas & available. I always kept in mind that, with better scripts, if they went back & dubbed Z, they'd be excellent. Now we have that.
Just outline for me, sub fan who disavows the English dub, which voices annoy you? I'm genuinely curious.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:07 pm

Scsigs wrote: Just outline for me, sub fan who disavows the English dub, which voices annoy you? I'm genuinely curious.
Well, here's a list.
Goku and Gohan - Stephanie Nadolny
Piccolo and Vegeta- Chris Sabat. Note: I'm ok with these not being recasted because the actor changed and improved immensely.
Kamesennin or "Master Roshi"- Mike McFarland
Tenshinhan- John Burgmeier
Freeza- Linda Young
Yamcha- Chris Sabat Note: I separated this one because I actually still think it's bad
Kaioh/ "King Kai"- Sean Schemmel
I could name a lot more but I'm in school right now. But, I can say that I pretty much dislike 70-85% of them.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:49 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote: Just outline for me, sub fan who disavows the English dub, which voices annoy you? I'm genuinely curious.
Well, here's a list.
Goku and Gohan - Stephanie Nadolny
Piccolo and Vegeta- Chris Sabat. Note: I'm ok with these not being recasted because the actor changed and improved immensely.
Kamesennin or "Master Roshi"- Mike McFarland
Tenshinhan- John Burgmeier
Freeza- Linda Young
Yamcha- Chris Sabat Note: I separated this one because I actually still think it's bad
Kaioh/"King Kai"- Sean Schemmel
I could name a lot more but I'm in school right now. But, I can say that I pretty much dislike 70-85% of them.
I can kinda see Nadolny, but I still like her voice for them.
Chris Sabat, I actually think got a bit complacent in the Kai dub. His Vegeta is deeper, which I get because he's older, but his Piccolo voice devolved to his Zoro voice from One Piece. He's since regained the gruff he used to have in Piccolo's voice in the last few movies, so at least there's that. He's the dub director of Kai, a lot of Z, DB, the newest movies, & I'm sure will be the director of Super's dub, so maybe that has something to do with it.
His Yamcha voice...I'm not seeing your reasoning. Yamcha is supposed to be a young dude who lived as a desert pirate before becoming civilized again. Also, a casanova. At least in the original DB. I think Chris' voice fits well.
Roshi's voice I'm not seeing. The dude's supposed to be an old crazy coot who's also a dirty old man...that can also dish out some pain when he wants to. Mike's voice for him fits.
Tien, I'm not seeing either. he's a monk, right? He at least looks like one. I don't know how his Japanese voice was, but the soft-spoken until provoked think works for him.
Frieza, I agree. Chris Ayers does a way better job than Linda Young.
King Kai I can kind of see. Sean makes him sound like a fool. However, I consider that to be a Yoda-type situation. Remember, when Goku got to his planet, he didn't think much of him because he looked, acted, & sounded ridiculous. Sean's voice for him accentuates that. In fact, that whole mini arc follows Empire Strikes Back when Luke goes to train with King Kai. The same thing happened with Yoda. Remember, he pretty much stopped a lot of his backwards talk & weird quirks the moment he revealed himself to Luke. Kai does the same with Goku.
You have to remember the show has always had its comedic elements. Kai's voice is just another example of that. On top of that, Sean actually enjoys voicing him, so there's no way he would give that up.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:57 pm

McFarland is okay for Z and the newer stuff, but he's a very bad fit for DB Roshi. Burgmeier is decent, but I think it could've have been better.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:10 pm

I just can't stand Kaioh's voice. Half of his stuff in Z is near incomprehensible and completely ignores Kaioh's mystical and godfatherly charcateristics. It's the same thing with McFarland's Kamesennin. They create these caricatures of these guys and completely miss some of their more serious moments. I just can't stand that. Kamesennin isn't just a goofy and pervy old man just like Kaioh isn't just a corny god. But, that's what they try to portray these characters as in their voices and that's what I utterly hate.

For me, it's like their dub versions try and get half of the character right while ignoring the other. And they can't even nail the half that they're focusing on properly!

For Yamucha and Tenshinhan, I just plain dont like them. IMO, Tenshinhan's voice is too scratchy and unnatural for my tastes and I still get that "surfer" vibe from Yamucha every now and then. I could probably come up with more reasons if I think more about it.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:07 pm

Bansho64 wrote:I just can't stand Kaioh's voice. Half of his stuff in Z is near incomprehensible and completely ignores Kaioh's mystical and godfatherly charcateristics. It's the same thing with McFarland's Kamesennin. They create these caricatures of these guys and completely miss some of their more serious moments. I just can't stand that. Kamesennin isn't just a goofy and pervy old man just like Kaioh isn't just a corny god. But, that's what they try to portray these characters are in their voices and that's what I utterly hate.

For me, it's like their dub versions try and get half of the character right while ignoring the other. And they can't even nail the half that they're focusing on properly!
It's like the voice actors and directors have no respect for the characters and see them as just comic relief.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:48 pm

You guys realize you're talking about the original Z dub, right? With Kai's dub & the recent films, they have gotten much closer to the original Japanese version in terms of accuracy. Really, watch Kai with the English dub. It's a hell of a dub.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:13 pm

If we're REALLY going to get into the way voice actors sound, why not talk about some of the ones people have with the Japanese version?
Goku, Gohan, Goten, & most other people in their family are voiced by Masako Nozawa & she sounds like a woman when voicing every one of them. Same goes for Krillin & Yajirobe. Their voice actress still sounds like a woman. No matter how much they try to make them sound distinct, it still comes out sounding like woman doing them.
King Kai's Japanese voice actor, before having to step down, I've read, sounded incredibly monotone due to his age.
Then Kid Trunks is played by the same exact voice actor who plays his older self. It's like Yuri Lowenthal trying to play young Sasuke in Naruto. It's just awkward.
Only dubs that matter are DB, Kai, & Super. Nothing else.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:27 pm

Scsigs wrote:You guys realize you're talking about the original Z dub, right? With Kai's dub & the recent films, they have gotten much closer to the original Japanese version in terms of accuracy. Really, watch Kai with the English dub. It's a hell of a dub.
No, specifically with those two voices, I'm talking about Kai, DB, AND the original Z dub. I myself grew up with the Kai dub and still disliked some of the voices. It's a great dub but it still carries over flaws from previous DB dubs and even creates some of its own.
Scsigs wrote:If we're REALLY going to get into the way voice actors sound, why not talk about some of the ones people have with the Japanese version?
Ok? I thought this topic was specifically about English dubbed voices, but sure.

For the female voices characters, I don't hear a woman. I hear young boys, older men, and warriors. I don't feel a woman in their voices. And to be honest, I've honestly never heard women sound the way that those characters do. They sound distinctly and clearly male to my ear. So, I guess it depends on the ear or perception of the person?

As for Kaioh, his most work before his replacement in Super did sound different because the actor, Joji Yanami, was sick. God bless him. As for his work in previous DB material, it sounded great and cool to me. I don't get "monotone" from his voice. Personally, it sounds like a old and wise master who can be humerous from time to time.

As for Trunks, just like the others, he sounds like a boy to me. Takeshi Kusao has some good range and he's able to do the character spectacularly in my book. I don't get what's awkward about. Is it the actor's gender that bothers you. He's able to do the character as a boy, a teen, and an adult. To me, that's the perfect package because it's natural and I don't have to worry about another voice coming in and potentially sounding bad.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:10 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:You guys realize you're talking about the original Z dub, right? With Kai's dub & the recent films, they have gotten much closer to the original Japanese version in terms of accuracy. Really, watch Kai with the English dub. It's a hell of a dub.
No, specifically with those two voices, I'm talking about Kai, DB, AND the original Z dub. I myself grew up with the Kai dub and still disliked some of the voices. It's a great dub but it still carries over flaws from previous DB dubs and even creates some of its own.
Scsigs wrote:If we're REALLY going to get into the way voice actors sound, why not talk about some of the ones people have with the Japanese version?
I was under the assumption that this topic was about English dub voices in particular and their inconsistencies but, sure, let's talk about the Japanese ones.

For the female voices characters, I don't hear a woman. I hear young boys, older men, and warriors. I don't feel a woman in their voices. And to be honest, I've honestly never heard women sound the way that those characters do. They sound distinctly and clearly male to my ear. So, I guess it depends on the ear or perception of the person?

As for Kaioh, his most work before his replacement in Super did sound different because the actor, Joji Yanami, was sick. God bless him. As for his work in previous DB material, it sounded great and cool to me. I don't get "monotone" from his voice. Personally, it sounds like a old and wise master who can be humerous from time to time.

As for Trunks, just like the others, he sounds like a boy to me. Takeshi Kusao has some good range and he's able to do the character spectacularly in my book. I don't get what's awkward about. I think your focusing too much on the actor and his gender instead of the actual voice he's using to portray the character.
What I'm saying is that not every single voice is going to sound good to everyone. For the English dub, I hear voices that fit the characters and their designs. Dragon Ball has always been a mix of comedy fantasy with high-speed action. DB did more of the latter while Z does more of the former. GT tried to do them, but failed on its face. Super is be doing a better job of mixing the 2, knowing which of it to do & when.

I see the voices in the English dub to bee good on their own merits.
Roshi sounds like an old man. It makes sense because he IS an old man...in a comedic anime.
King Kai is a Yoda-esque figure in a comedic anime & not a serious American film. The voice fits because, despite appearance, he's an effective Kai. He DID teach Goku the Kaioken, after all. "Judge me by my size, do you?"
Yajirobe is a hick that lived in the woods for a while. The way he speaks makes perfect sense in English. He's a big, in terms of weight, dumb brute. I'm betting that's how it was supposed to be in the Japanese version too. His Japanese actress tries to make him sound gruff, so Mike does the same in his own way.

See? Where you see problems with the voices, taken on their own merits, which is what most dubs shoot for, they fit. Example, Franky in One Piece. His English voice sounds NOTHING like his Japanese one, but it still works because the character's so bombastic & over the top that the voice matches perfectly with it.

That's what you're supposed to do when casting for a piece of visual media. Dubs already have the stigma attached to them that English dubs can never be as good as the original Japanese. I watch dubs for every anime I watch when available.

Naruto, it's a similar situation to Nozawa where his English voice, like his Japanese one, is a woman. People HATE the voice where it sounds like a woman who smokes 10 packs a day. My opinion? It works. He sounds like a male. It gets a little weird in The Last movie's dub where he's, like, mid-20s & still sounds like he does, but I can get over that. Same thing with Luffy in One Piece. In English, it's Colleen Clinkenbeard playing him. As I've stated, I don't have much of a problem with it, but people HATE his English voice. I, personally, have nothing against Nozawa, or Tanaka. I bet I would get used to their voices if I watched more of the sub, but I prefer the dub voices. That's just me. I brought them up because they're things people have, which I can't unhear either. I can get passed it for the sake of the story, but it still bugs me. Sean's voice is what I imagine Goku as an adult would sound like. However, her Black performance was VERY good & I hope Sean does more of what she did in the Super dub, rather than what he did for Xenoverse 2, we're in for a hell of a dub of that arc.

By the way, yeah, this thread IS supposed to be about the English dub, I sort of derailed it, while keeping the discussion about the voice actors. Let's try to get back to that now.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:21 pm

Scsigs wrote:See? Where you see problems with the voices, taken on their own merits, which is what most dubs shoot for, they fit.
Well, for me, they really don't. Like I said, we honestly need more recasts in my opinion.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Scsigs » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:35 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:See? Where you see problems with the voices, taken on their own merits, which is what most dubs shoot for, they fit.
Well, for me, they really don't. Like I said, we honestly need more recasts in my opinion.
Meh. Different strokes. It's not 4Kids though. Even though the scripting of Z's dub was almost as bad a lot of the time. At least these actors got better over time whereas some of their VAs got worse over time somehow.
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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:08 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Scsigs wrote:See? Where you see problems with the voices, taken on their own merits, which is what most dubs shoot for, they fit.
Well, for me, they really don't. Like I said, we honestly need more recasts in my opinion.
except for possibly King Kai (who I don't mind) I wholeheartedly disagree.
I'm not a huge fan of Colleen as 18 and Gohan but I've gotten used to it. thankfully McCoy is back as 18 though.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:15 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: except for possibly King Kai (who I don't mind) I wholeheartedly disagree.
I'm not a huge fan of Colleen as 18 and Gohan but I've gotten used to it. thankfully McCoy is back as 18 though.
If you can stand and/or like every single one of them, more power to you. But, personally, I think there's still a couple of changes that need to be made. Especially for the villains. Seriously, it's like they didn't even try for most of the Shadow Dragons in GT.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:19 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote: except for possibly King Kai (who I don't mind) I wholeheartedly disagree.
I'm not a huge fan of Colleen as 18 and Gohan but I've gotten used to it. thankfully McCoy is back as 18 though.
If you can stand and/or like every single one of them, more power to you. But, personally, I think there's still a couple of changes that need to be made. Especially for the villains. Seriously, it's like they didn't even try for most of the Shadow Dragons in GT.
It's not like the first four Shadow Dragons aren't one-off villains anyway. You act like every voice ever in the Japanese was perfect. I personally think Eis and Nova sound awesome. Omega Shenron having the coolest

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by Bansho64 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:27 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: It's not like the first four Shadow Dragons aren't one-off villains anyway. You act like every voice ever in the Japanese was perfect. I personally think Eis and Nova sound awesome. Omega Shenron having the coolest
So, because I criticize the English dub voices mostly, that automatically correlates that I think the Japanese voices are "perfect"? That's a pretty big assumption to make. But, you are partly right, I do think that every Japanese voice was better. I don't know about "perfect", but I certainly never saw a problem in one.

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Re: Inconsistencies with the US English Dub

Post by gregoryluis09 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:45 am

thaman91 wrote:
AzuraRacon wrote: I think those recordings are actually the last time the series ever aired with the Yamamoto score now that I think about it
I believe the first episode aired on Toonami accidentally used the Yamamoto score. And it was also airing in Brazil (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=32054) with the Yamamoto score as recently as last year.
It's still airing in Brazil with the Yamamoto score, they still didn't switched to the Kikuchi score.

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