Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:22 pm

I also don't get the disdain some have shown toward Kai's editing and overall production. I think a big part of it is that Z had become a classic by the time Kai came around, so much so that the pacing and music placements became part of its charm. I like how VegettoEX was saying in an early first impressions/review on Kai podcast (can't remember the number) that the series was basically TOEI taking the same approach Funimation did with the Saban dub by condensing their own product, redoing the score and voices (albeit with the same actors and no noteworthy script changes), which was seen as inherently bad in the first place. In a similar fashion I've heard some argue TOEI replacing Yamamoto's score was as blasphemous as the replacing of Kikuchi for the original Z English dub.

Honestly though, I like how the final product turned out. Yes the art and animation inconsistencies do stick out but that's a problem that was there in the first place with Z and not something Kai can be blamed for. I also find that while the Kikuchi placement is more limited and not as well done as it was in the Z dub I like the fact that whether way I want to watch Kai there's so much variety, I've watched it countless times and I can switch seamlessly from Yamamoto to Kikuchi depending on my mood (hopefully if the Ocean dub is ever released I will have another great score to enjoy the show with), and Sumitomo for the Buu stuff (and while he's not as bad as some say he has good moments too and gets the carefree upbeat aspects of Dragon Ball relatively well in my opinion).

But yeah, original Z is still worth watching at least once for the Japanese audio track, as is Kai specifically for the English dub. Japanese Kai is fine for people getting into Dragon Ball who are strictly no dubs, or hardcore fans of the franchise as a curiosity. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, but the ideal way of watching is the aforementioned best versions of each show.

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Metalwario64 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:41 am

I will also say that, despite most people saying that Kai was a bad idea from the get-go, I feel like it kind of wasn't. Mike has said in the past about how it's strange to him that people wanted a cut version of a show that we all fought so hard to get complete and uncut, and while I do get that sentiment, there have always been a lot of people who criticized the show for its filler and length. The term "Drag-ON-ball Z" has been around since some of the earlier days in the fandom from what I've heard, and there have always been people who preferred the manga for the faster pace it provided.

Now, I'm not at all saying that these people are wrong for disliking Kai. In fact I have many problems with it. I'm just saying I think it was a good, honest idea, but the execution wasn't there. They were really lazy about it, and even aside from that other things happened like Yamamoto's plagiarism, which resulted in a very poor Kikuchi placement.

Honestly, if Kai had been truly accurate to the manga (with even a few newly animated bits like adding back the scene where Zarbon tells Vegeta that Freeza can transform), even with using Z's footage as a base, and if they'd taken the time, money and care into getting as many of the old cast back as possible, and using Kikuchi from the beginning, even going as far as to use his entire library (including some original Dragon Ball pieces that were also used in Z), with care taken into their placement, as well as getting Hironobu Kageyama back for a new remix of Cha La Head Cha La, I feel most people would have a much higher opinion of Kai.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby coola » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:22 am

I don't, for same reason i dont watch anniversary concerts of favorite bands, i rather remember them in their prime time.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:36 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:I will also say that, despite most people saying that Kai was a bad idea from the get-go, I feel like it kind of wasn't. Mike has said in the past about how it's strange to him that people wanted a cut version of a show that we all fought so hard to get complete and uncut, and while I do get that sentiment, there have always been a lot of people who criticized the show for its filler and length. The term "Drag-ON-ball Z" has been around since some of the earlier days in the fandom from what I've heard, and there have always been people who preferred the manga for the faster pace it provided.

Now, I'm not at all saying that these people are wrong for disliking Kai. In fact I have many problems with it. I'm just saying I think it was a good, honest idea, but the execution wasn't there. They were really lazy about it, and even aside from that other things happened like Yamamoto's plagiarism, which resulted in a very poor Kikuchi placement.

Honestly, if Kai had been truly accurate to the manga (with even a few newly animated bits like adding back the scene where Zarbon tells Vegeta that Freeza can transform), even with using Z's footage as a base, and if they'd taken the time, money and care into getting as many of the old cast back as possible, and using Kikuchi from the beginning, even going as far as to use his entire library (including some original Dragon Ball pieces that were also used in Z), with care taken into their placement, as well as getting Hironobu Kageyama back for a new remix of Cha La Head Cha La, I feel most people would have a much higher opinion of Kai.

I think you're confusing their promotion for their actual intent behind the show. Sure, we know that the idea behind Kai genuinely was for a manga cut at its deepest roots, but why did they go through with it? It was a cheaper way to bring the show into the modern, HD era without having to actually restore all of the footage. Meanwhile, they can slap a new subtitle on it, give it new openings and endings, give it a crisp new audio track, and everyone will think/pretend it's a brand new show!
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Super_Divine_Genki » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:55 pm

I had previously watched the English dub of Kai a few years back, up until Episode 98. I was curious to hear a more accurate and better acted dub along with the better pacing, but it's still not my cup of Matcha. Most of FUNi's VA's, while improved from Z, are simply unfitting, imo. Sabat's Vegeta after over 10 years experience has never done anything for me (it saddens me that he's seen as the inspiration for anyone taking their shot at dubbing Vegeta in English, whether official/unofficial).

Earlier this year, I got my head back into DB again and viewed Kai from the beginning and through to the end of The Final Chapters in Japanese for the first time (because I had finally gotten around to seeing Dragon Ball through to the end for the first time last Summer). I found it enjoyable for the most part (Wakamoto, what happened...?), and whenever I go back to it, it'll be the original audio.

It does not replace Z though.

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby TheBlackPaladin » Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:32 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:I can't recall off the top of my head which dubs of Kai are considered improvements and which ones are considered unnecessary or worse...


The general consensus seems to be...

English and French: HUGE improvements. Rather interestingly, for similar reasons. Infinitely better dub scripts, completely uncensored, the re-casts sound great, and the returning cast members sound better than ever.

Latino Spanish: Big downgrade. Censored, less faithful dub script, most of the original cast didn't come back, and most of the replacement voices haven't been received well.

Brazilian Portuguese: Downgraded to "meh" level. Censored, generally faithful dub script (although not as good as their Z script), and a fair deal of the original cast didn't come back (redeeming that situation slightly is the return of the original Goku at least). Reception for the replacement voices have been mixed.

German: Downgraded to slightly below "meh" level. Uncensored, noticeably more faithful dub script (although not improved to the level that the English and French scripts were), and the only original cast members to come back were the narrator and Roshi (and the latter has since been replaced due to health issues). The replacement voices haven't been received well.

Portugal: Overall a weird situation. It was never dubbed. They just aired the original Japanese version, uncensored, with Portuguese subtitles...which, for the first half of the show, were oddly enough based on the script for the uncensored FUNimation English dub. Halfway through they got a new translator that started translating the actual Japanese dialogue. Kind of odd considering that they did have a dub for DBZ, and now have a dub for Super where most of the original cast returned.

I've been unable to determine the reception in other countries.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Danfun64 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:46 am

I actually heard some people here say that the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Kai is more accurate than the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Z!

I don't know what their reputations are, but AFAIK the Catalan and Galician dubs of Kai are improvements over their respective Z dubs. Both are uncut and use better scripts than their Z counterparts. The Galician dub even dropped some of the old dub terms (like Space Warrior)...pity that the Catalan dub didn't do so as well...

Ironic that the French dub that originated "Space Warriors" and similar infamous terms rejected them, but the Catalan and European Portuguese dubs hold on to those terms for dear life for some reason...

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Gafonso6 » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:20 am

Danfun64 wrote:I actually heard some people here say that the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Kai is more accurate than the Brazilian Portuguese dub of Z!

I don't know what their reputations are, but AFAIK the Catalan and Galician dubs of Kai are improvements over their respective Z dubs. Both are uncut and use better scripts than their Z counterparts. The Galician dub even dropped some of the old dub terms (like Space Warrior)...pity that the Catalan dub didn't do so as well...

Ironic that the French dub that originated "Space Warriors" and similar infamous terms rejected them, but the Catalan and European Portuguese dubs hold on to those terms for dear life for some reason...


Talking as a Portuguese guy I have to say that here they kept the old terms because the studios are afraid that people won't like it. I would love if they would use the original terms ut I don't mind that much that they use the dub terms because it's kind of a fusion since they use some japanese terms and some dub terms.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Ripper 30 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:54 am

I think Dragon Ball Kai in Japanese just lacked that punch and that passion which Z Japanese had. The voice actors were quite old at the time of recording voices for Kai and some voice actors even passed away before it, so the recast were not really as good as the original voice actors. Like, Hirotaka Suzuoki's Tenshinhan in DB and Z was awesome but it's not that Hikaru Midorikawa's voice for Tenshinhan in Kai is bad but it just lacks that charm that original voice had.

Same for Kame Senin too. His voice actor in DB/Z was great but after he passed away the new recast in Kai just wasn't as good. Also, Sho Hayami didn't voice Zarbon in Kai for some reason so I would definitely prefer Z in Japanese because because the voice actors were in prime and also Wakamoto's voice in Kai wasn't as good as Z too.

But, there were some scenes which were handed well in Kai Japanese like Vegeta's two deaths in (the) Boo and Namek arcs, and Goku SSJ3; Nozawa did an awesome scream as always. (Also), the Yamamoto music in Kai was good (though repetitive at times) and Sumitomo's Score in Kai Final Chapters was okay but I think it was a blessing in disguise for FUNimation as they got a chance to re-dub it properly.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby simtek34 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:48 pm

I do, it is my primary way of watching Z in Japanese. I have been recently been watching OG Dragon Ball fully in Japanese (At Episode 11) and I am planning on watching Dragon Ball Z fully the same way for the first time afterwards. Wish me luck!

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Metalwario64 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:36 pm

simtek34 wrote:I do, it is my primary way of watching Z in Japanese. I have been recently been watching OG Dragon Ball fully in Japanese (At Episode 11) and I am planning on watching Dragon Ball Z fully the same way for the first time afterwards. Wish me luck!

You don't need luck, you're gonna really enjoy it. :thumbup:
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby simtek34 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:09 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
simtek34 wrote:I do, it is my primary way of watching Z in Japanese. I have been recently been watching OG Dragon Ball fully in Japanese (At Episode 11) and I am planning on watching Dragon Ball Z fully the same way for the first time afterwards. Wish me luck!

You don't need luck, you're gonna really enjoy it. :thumbup:


The fun part, is that this is my first time watching Dragon Ball Z in general! I've seen a couple episodes here and there plus YouTube clips to see filler and for comparisons, and besides that, I'm gong in completely blind. I allways watched Kai before, due to a better and more accurate dub (English Side), quicker pace, and it was on TV when I stated. Since I joined Kanzenshuu, I've loved the Japanese version more! I can remember the days when the only reason I watchied Japanese was because Kai was on hiatus on NickToons for a while, and I didn't know of Z then. Then it was the Final Chapters and Battle of Gods which made me appreciate the Japanese voices before I switched over completely. :)

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Ripper 30 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:19 am

simtek34 wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
simtek34 wrote:I do, it is my primary way of watching Z in Japanese. I have been recently been watching OG Dragon Ball fully in Japanese (At Episode 11) and I am planning on watching Dragon Ball Z fully the same way for the first time afterwards. Wish me luck!

You don't need luck, you're gonna really enjoy it. :thumbup:


The fun part, is that this is my first time watching Dragon Ball Z in general! I've seen a couple episodes here and there plus YouTube clips to see filler and for comparisons, and besides that, I'm gong in completely blind. I allways watched Kai before, due to a better and more accurate dub (English Side), quicker pace, and it was on TV when I stated. Since I joined Kanzenshuu, I've loved the Japanese version more! I can remember the days when the only reason I watchied Japanese was because Kai was on hiatus on NickToons for a while, and I didn't know of Z then. Then it was the Final Chapters and Battle of Gods which made me appreciate the Japanese voices before I switched over completely. :)

The voice acting is much better in Z Japanese than Kai Japanese overall and in my opinion music too
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Cipher » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:59 am

Exclusively. Z's the better directed show on the whole, but Kai is more tolerable for rewatching certain spots, and hardly unwatchable as an adaptation on its own.

I haven't done more than take a quick peek at the English dubs of Dragon Ball anything in years.

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby LuckyCat » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:03 pm

I only watched Kai in Japanese and was thrilled at the way it was handled. DBZ was great and sometimes the greatest for how it handled scenes, but it was also painful! My last memory of DBZ was skipping episodes and scenes just so I could get to manga-related material.

My only major complaint for Japanese Kai is Wakamoto's Cell. It's a funny delivery, but it's way too light-hearted compared to Wakamoto's original performance. Of course other characters like Mr. Satan got replaced which is shame, but there's really no way to avoid natural deaths of voice actors.

However, I did catch an episode of the English dub of Kai, and I think it's all-around great. If that version were available back in the 90s, I may never have gotten interested in Japanese Dragon Ball.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Ripper 30 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:55 am

LuckyCat wrote:
My only major complaint for Japanese Kai is Wakamoto's Cell. It's a funny delivery, but it's way too light-hearted compared to Wakamoto's original performance .


Agreed, Wakamoto didn't sounded as good as Z in Kai and his voice just wasn't smooth In Kai and some of his Delivery felt weird too whereas he sounded Perfect In Z, there is even a clip Comparing the same scenes from Z and Kai.
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Prince of Vegetables » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:49 pm

I watch it in both languages
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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Shinsa » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:19 am

I watched abit of it in Japanese but lost interest. When i finally got back to it the show the English dub was completed so i watched it like that.

I figure if i want to watch it in japanese I'd watch z.

As for music...kais music has a bunch of highs and lows and just some plain weird. I'm not the biggest fan of Kikuchi but at least he was consistent even though repetative.

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby Bansho64 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Yeah, I've watched it in Japanese before, and I'm actually one of the few that likes it quite a bit. There's some really good performances in there and the shortened length is what I'm used to.

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Re: Does anyone here watch Kai in Japanese?

Postby 8000 Saiyan » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Bansho64 wrote:Yeah, I've watched it in Japanese before, and I'm actually one of the few that likes it quite a bit. There's some really good performances in there and the shortened length is what I'm used to.

Even though he's no Suzuoki, I think Midorikawa's a pretty good replacement for Tenshinhan.
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