Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:32 pm

dario03 wrote:I didn't say "Kai" should mean "Funi Kai", I said with context saying "dub of Kai" could currently be assumed to mean "Funi Kai". If you just say Kai then you no longer have the context that I was talking about, so specifics are needed. For this board I would lean toward original but it wouldn't be as clear.

Fair. But still, people should still be clear about this.
Hell, if you say "The dub of Dragon Ball Z", you could be referring to any of the following:
  • The Funimation/Saban/Ocean dub from 1996-1997
  • The Funimation in-house dub from 1999-2002
  • The AB Groupe/Ocean dub from 2001-2002
  • The Funimation remastered dub from 2005-2008
  • The slightly revised Funimation remastered dub from 2013 (The mix was overhauled, and at least one line in the first 67 episodes was re-recorded to fix an error that popped up from not enough quality assurance when they were putting together the scripts)

And yet, people still say "The dub of Dragon Ball Z", while meaning any one of these(Usually the Funimation ones, often the remastered ones). So I imagine Kai will, unfortunately, be no different.

And it's not like this isn't easy for Kai; admittedly, for Z, since there's five different versions you could be referring to(Arguably 4½, since the slightly revised remastered Funi dub from 2013 only made the tiniest changes, or perhaps even 3½, if you count the two Ocean dubs as one), it's difficult to nail down exactly what you mean, but with Kai, the only dubs are Funimation and Ocean. Ocean's will probably start airing in Canada sometime this year, so we should try to work this courtesy into our language so as to not confuse new Canadian fans. It's really not difficult to say "The Funimation dub", or "The Funi dub" instead of "The dub".
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby dario03 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
dario03 wrote:I didn't say "Kai" should mean "Funi Kai", I said with context saying "dub of Kai" could currently be assumed to mean "Funi Kai". If you just say Kai then you no longer have the context that I was talking about, so specifics are needed. For this board I would lean toward original but it wouldn't be as clear.

Fair. But still, people should still be clear about this.
Hell, if you say "The dub of Dragon Ball Z", you could be referring to any of the following:
  • The Funimation/Saban/Ocean dub from 1996-1997
  • The Funimation in-house dub from 1999-2002
  • The AB Groupe/Ocean dub from 2001-2002
  • The Funimation remastered dub from 2005-2008
  • The slightly revised Funimation remastered dub from 2013 (The mix was overhauled, and at least one line in the first 67 episodes was re-recorded to fix an error that popped up from not enough quality assurance when they were putting together the scripts)

And yet, people still say "The dub of Dragon Ball Z", while meaning any one of these(Usually the Funimation ones, often the remastered ones). So I imagine Kai will, unfortunately, be no different.

And it's not like this isn't easy for Kai; admittedly, for Z, since there's five different versions you could be referring to(Arguably 4½, since the slightly revised remastered Funi dub from 2013 only made the tiniest changes, or perhaps even 3½, if you count the two Ocean dubs as one), it's difficult to nail down exactly what you mean, but with Kai, the only dubs are Funimation and Ocean. Ocean's will probably start airing in Canada sometime this year, so we should try to work this courtesy into our language so as to not confuse new Canadian fans. It's really not difficult to say "The Funimation dub", or "The Funi dub" instead of "The dub".


If the Ocean dub does ever come out then sure. But the points you just made were the same ones I did earlier. Z needs clarification because of numerous English dubs, Kai not so much because currently there is only one English dub. In short, yes you could say Kai Funi dub but it isn't really needed right now on English boards, if the Ocean or some other English dub comes out then you would.

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:23 pm

dario03 wrote:If the Ocean dub does ever come out then sure. But the points you just made were the same ones I did earlier. Z needs clarification because of numerous English dubs, Kai not so much because currently there is only one English dub. In short, yes you could say Kai Funi dub but it isn't really needed right now on English boards, if the Ocean or some other English dub comes out then you would.

Except we can be pretty certain Ocean Kai is coming out soon, probably this year.

From the head of an upcoming Canadian TV network, in response to people asking about her potentially acquiring Ocean Kai to air:
Marni Shulman on Twitter in October wrote:Thx 4 the reco. Will def look into it. Cheers!

Marni Shulman on Twitter in November wrote:Tnx to all 4 help & advice. Have already had calls last week. More next wk. No promises, but trying to make something happen :)

Marni Shulman on Twitter in December wrote:Sorry for the delay. No news yet. Will keep everyone posted.

Marni Shulman on Twitter three weeks ago wrote:All good! Totally normal timeframes. Takes ~6mos to get CRTC approval for channel License. Everything’s on track - not to worry :D


If something was in the way of it airing, she would have said something in the past three months. She says "Everything's on track", she says she "Will keep everyone posted", she was asked several times, and thus assured everyone several times, that it is the Ocean dub she's going for... This is probably happening.
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Robo4900 wrote:(The mix was overhauled, and at least one line in the first 67 episodes was re-recorded to fix an error that popped up from not enough quality assurance when they were putting together the scripts)

Haha, I see what they did there. Instead of re-recording Bulma's line (who no longer has the same voice actress) they re-did Roshi's instead!

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:14 pm

KBABZ wrote:Haha, I see what they did there. Instead of re-recording Bulma's line (who no longer has the same voice actress) they re-did Roshi's instead!

Indeed.
I can't remember how they handled that scene in Kai, but I do wonder if they put Roshi's line there from Kai, or actually got Mike McFarland to re-record that one line... Or who knows, maybe they had him record it during the Kai recording, and used it for the revised remastered release.
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:14 am

Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:Haha, I see what they did there. Instead of re-recording Bulma's line (who no longer has the same voice actress) they re-did Roshi's instead!

Indeed.
I can't remember how they handled that scene in Kai, but I do wonder if they put Roshi's line there from Kai, or actually got Mike McFarland to re-record that one line... Or who knows, maybe they had him record it during the Kai recording, and used it for the revised remastered release.

I waited until I got home to answer this! Just watched the scene in Kai (Episode 5 to be precise), and it goes like this:

Bulma: Now then, let's try this again. Hop to, guys!
Roshi: Errr... hop where?

Two things to note there. First, Roshi's delivery of his line is definitely a new take compared to the original in-house dub ("Hop where?" for in-house and "Hop where?" for Kai). And second, the fact that it's now gone back to "hop to" suggests that it was the change from Vollmer to Rial that had them change McFarland's Roshi line instead for the 2013 revision.

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Danfun64 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:17 pm

As I told Robo4900 in a relatively private place, the line wasn't rerecorded for the 2013 Season Blu-Ray revision. What happened is that from the Orange Brick to the Level Blu-Ray, only the Kikuchi mix had the correct line (the Funi Dragon Box also used the correct line, but since it only used Kikuchi...). The correct take wasn't used (again?) in the Johnson score until the Season Blu-Ray.

I have no idea whether the original UUC single of this episode used the correct take or not.

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:31 pm

Danfun64 wrote:I have no idea whether the original UUC single of this episode used the correct take or not.

Pretty sure the Ultimate Uncut DVDs use the wrong take, and that's why it wasn't corrected on the Johnson score initially; they just used the Ultimate Uncut DVD's finished mix for the 2.0 mix on the Orange Bricks for episodes 1-67.
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Forte224 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:22 am

Yes, for sure! The English dub of Kai from the Saiyan arc to the Cell arc in particular were a rare time where Funimation really, really kept things close to the original Japanese script. Even more specifically the Saiyan to Freeza arcs use the original Japanese attack names like Kienzan and Makankosappo. They later went back to things like Destructo Disc and Special Beam Cannon though. The Boo arc of English Kai is good too but they started to get a little looser with the script. It's still pretty accurate though. Super is where they've gone too far off again, for my tastes anyway.

Long story short: Do it!
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:47 am

Forte224 wrote:Yes, for sure! The English dub of Kai from the Saiyan arc to the Cell arc in particular were a rare time where Funimation really, really kept things close to the original Japanese script. Even more specifically the Saiyan to Freeza arcs use the original Japanese attack names like Kienzan and Makankosappo. They later went back to things like Destructo Disc and Special Beam Cannon though. The Boo arc of English Kai is good too but they started to get a little looser with the script. It's still pretty accurate though. Super is where they've gone too far off again, for my tastes anyway.

Long story short: Do it!

To show how worth it this is, after playing FighterZ some Giant Bomb guys started a DBZ podcast where they basically do a Kai Review of Awesomeness using the Blu-Rays. Honestly it's the best way for an English fan who prefers dub audio to get into Z (although I'd argue heavily to watch Dragon Ball first before going into it and skipping the World Training, Heavenly Training and Wedding Dress arcs).

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:51 pm

KBABZ wrote:To show how worth it this is, after playing FighterZ some Giant Bomb guys started a DBZ podcast where they basically do a Kai Review of Awesomeness using the Blu-Rays. Honestly it's the best way for an English fan who prefers dub audio to get into Z (although I'd argue heavily to watch Dragon Ball first before going into it and skipping the World Training, Heavenly Training and Wedding Dress arcs).

I don't think skipping anything is necessary.

Still, yeah, dub-only newcomers should go DB & Kai. Skipping DB is a really bad idea, but even worse would be watching Z's dub instead of Kai's dub.
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:04 pm

Robo4900 wrote:I don't think skipping anything is necessary.

I think three filler arcs can be skipped because they really don't add anything to the story, and feel like those bits in Pokemon where they're between badges but not actually accomplishing anything. I'd usually throw the Colonel Silver stuff in there too, but due to the way the show is edited it's impossible to skip that smoothly since the filler is so integrated with the transition back to the manga content.

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:07 pm

KBABZ wrote:I think three filler arcs can be skipped because they really don't add anything to the story, and feel like those bits in Pokemon where they're between badges but not actually accomplishing anything. I'd usually throw the Colonel Silver stuff in there too, but due to the way the show is edited it's impossible to skip that smoothly since the filler is so integrated with the transition back to the manga content.

They can be skipped, but I don't see any point in doing so. It was good filler, worth watching at least.
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:47 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:I think three filler arcs can be skipped because they really don't add anything to the story, and feel like those bits in Pokemon where they're between badges but not actually accomplishing anything. I'd usually throw the Colonel Silver stuff in there too, but due to the way the show is edited it's impossible to skip that smoothly since the filler is so integrated with the transition back to the manga content.

They can be skipped, but I don't see any point in doing so. It was good filler, worth watching at least.

I dunno, spending five episodes trying to put out a fire for a wedding dress doesn't sound all that compelling to me, even if it uses from JttW elements.

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:02 am

KBABZ wrote:I dunno, spending five episodes trying to put out a fire for a wedding dress doesn't sound all that compelling to me, even if it uses from JttW elements.

Sure, and 50 episodes looking for a shiny ball with four stars on it doesn't sound particularly interesting either. :P
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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby KBABZ » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:49 am

Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:I dunno, spending five episodes trying to put out a fire for a wedding dress doesn't sound all that compelling to me, even if it uses from JttW elements.

Sure, and 50 episodes looking for a shiny ball with four stars on it doesn't sound particularly interesting either. :P

I've always held that the Baba Yaga Saga felt like filler even though it was part of the manga!

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby sangofe » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:41 am

KBABZ wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:I dunno, spending five episodes trying to put out a fire for a wedding dress doesn't sound all that compelling to me, even if it uses from JttW elements.

Sure, and 50 episodes looking for a shiny ball with four stars on it doesn't sound particularly interesting either. :P

I've always held that the Baba Yaga Saga felt like filler even though it was part of the manga!


The wedding dress saga is by far the worst saga of DB (the TV anime).

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Re: Is the dub of Kai worth a shot for an indifferent fan?

Postby Robo4900 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:38 pm

sangofe wrote:The wedding dress saga is by far the worst saga of DB (the TV anime).

Remember how you get annoyed when I trash Super for, in my opinion, being one of the worst things that has ever come out of the Dragon Ball franchise, meanwhile you love it unabashedly, and will not hear a word against it?

:P

KBABZ wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:I dunno, spending five episodes trying to put out a fire for a wedding dress doesn't sound all that compelling to me, even if it uses from JttW elements.

Sure, and 50 episodes looking for a shiny ball with four stars on it doesn't sound particularly interesting either. :P

I've always held that the Baba Yaga Saga felt like filler even though it was part of the manga!

So, first you took issue with the premise boiled down to its simplest form, and now you're taking issue with the last 10 episodes of a 50-episode arc? :P

Look, point is, you're talking about people skipping a 5-episode mini-arc with at least one very well-liked episode in it, a 9-episode arc, the first four of which are plot-essential, non-filler episodes, leaving -- once again -- only 5 filler episodes to skip, and finally, another 5 filler episodes to skip.
I really don't think three short runs of 5 episodes are worth the hassle of skipping; as they say -- in for a penny, in for a pound.* Or, put another way, if you're gonna watch all 153 episodes of Dragon Ball, why not just watch all 153 episodes of Dragon Ball? :lol:

Admittedly, these 15 episodes aren't the finest episodes of TV of all time, but come on, it's 15 episodes of a 153-episode show. At the very least, watching them will mean you can discuss those arcs with other people online who have seen them; skipping them will just leave you confused when they come up in discussion online.

*Or, more mathematically accurately -- in for 90 pennies, in for a pound.
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