DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

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Re: DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

Postby Sun_Wukong » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:40 pm

VegettoEX wrote:WHY IT CAN'T WORK: The only thing that should be going on is that Goku should be off training with Uub.


Wrong, Goku trains with Uub, 10 years after Buu. Goten and Trunks are still kids in the movie.

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Postby alakazam^ » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:10 pm

You know, it's funny when you think that movie 5 aired before Freeza's death (at least in the anime)... did he died already in the manga?

I was going to say that movie 13 fits in the storyline, but THEN.... I remembered a very important thing. If so, (Mr.) Buu should have appeared.

And I rest my case...

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Postby B-kun » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:09 pm

Did Mr. Satan appear in the movie? ._.;; Really, Piccolo didn't either.

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Postby alakazam^ » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:56 pm

No, Mr. Satan didn't appear. He was probably hiding somewhere :lol: while Hildegarn devastated the city. Btw, I think the city was Satan City, but Capsule Corp. is in other city, right?

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Postby *PINHEAD* » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:28 pm

Capsule Corp. is in Western City or something. I think.
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Postby Mike D » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:41 pm

Hildegarn was destroying West City. That is where Capsule Corp. is located.

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Postby WhatTheDarn » Sat Apr 23, 2005 5:47 pm

Wait, wouldn't movie 10 fit in if it took place right before the 25th Budokai?

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Postby Domon » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:53 pm

WhatTheDarn wrote:Wait, wouldn't movie 10 fit in if it took place right before the 25th Budokai?


Movie 8 would also be needed... and it doesn't fit in either.

Beside, the Dragon Balls were apparently scattered after granting a wish(at least that what it looked like). So unless there was a year-long gap somewhere, it can't work out.

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Re: DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

Postby veshira » Fri May 06, 2005 1:04 am

VegettoEX wrote:DBZ MOVIE #6: Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors

WHERE IT FITS IN: After Goku has defeated Freeza, and sometime soon before Trunks arrives in the past.

We don't know that, though, do we? I think it takes place during the three years of training for the androids, after Trunks came back in time once, because there is something you forgot in the "evidence."

VegettoEX wrote:EVIDENCE: Goku is able to go SSJ at will and knows Shunkan-ido. Everyone is alive.

Vegeta can go Super Saiyan in this movie, which, based on the anime where he has that nightmare with Goku and Trunks in it, which he probably wouldn't have had he become Super Saiyan already. Plus, he's always sort of insecure when he sees Goku or Trunks as Super Saiyan, which no longer bothers him during the Android Saga. It doesn't seem to bother him as much in the movie that Goku's a Super Saiyan.

DBZ MOVIE #9: The Galaxy at the Brink!! The Super Incredible Guy

WHERE IT FITS IN: After Gohan has defeated Cell in the Cell Games, and after Trunks has returned to the future and defeats #17, #18, and Cell, but long before the Buu arc.

WHY IT CAN'T WORK: Strangely, it can! There's really nothing going on during the seven years that would prevent this movie from happening. Gohan looks like he could be slightly older than he was during the Cell Games (maybe a year or so), and Trunks has grown out his hair, again. Goku, of course, is still dead.


But where is Goten? If he hasn't been born yet, shouldn't we see some sort of signs in Chichi? I mean, baby Trunks doesn't look that much older, but Chichi even says to Bulma that Gohan's been studying for a long time. Actually, it would probably work if the story took place right after the Cell Games and before Trunks went back to his own time, but whatever the character design tells us, the dialogue completely contradicts. It's insanity! >_>;; *pause* Well, perhaps not "insanity," but it gets very annoying.

[edit]

I completely forgot about Dende. @_@;
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Re: DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

Postby Domon » Fri May 06, 2005 10:49 am

veshira wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:DBZ MOVIE #6: Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors

WHERE IT FITS IN: After Goku has defeated Freeza, and sometime soon before Trunks arrives in the past.

We don't know that, though, do we? I think it takes place during the three years of training for the androids, after Trunks came back in time once, because there is something you forgot in the "evidence."


If the movie is to be belived, it takes place sometimes during the days before the Cell games, since Dende is already Kami... and Gohan somehow has reverted to his pre-Room of Time and Spirit design, and conveniently forgotten that he can go SSJ.

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Re: DBZ Movies: Where They Fit In

Postby Dayspring » Sat May 07, 2005 10:19 am

Domon wrote:
veshira wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:DBZ MOVIE #6: Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors

WHERE IT FITS IN: After Goku has defeated Freeza, and sometime soon before Trunks arrives in the past.

We don't know that, though, do we? I think it takes place during the three years of training for the androids, after Trunks came back in time once, because there is something you forgot in the "evidence."


If the movie is to be belived, it takes place sometimes during the days before the Cell games, since Dende is already Kami... and Gohan somehow has reverted to his pre-Room of Time and Spirit design, and conveniently forgotten that he can go SSJ.


Quite a bit of ifs and somehows there. How could it possibly take place BEFORE Trunks arrives yet AFTER Dende becomes Kami?
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Postby Rocketman » Sat May 07, 2005 6:13 pm

I think movie 6, with the exception of Dende-Kami, looks most like it should fit before the Androids arrive, close to the end of the three years of training.

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Postby Xyex » Sat May 07, 2005 10:49 pm

Ya, I always saw movie 6 near the end of the 3 years of training for the Androids. Goku's the only one that saw SSJ Vegeta and since he was out of it in the series, he didn't do the same "OMG Vegeta's a Super Saiya-jin!" thing as the others, so that still fits. The only thing off is Dende. But then, it's a movie, so whatever.
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Postby alakazam^ » Sun May 08, 2005 5:12 pm

But movie 6 is the continuation of movie 5, which doesn't fit. Also, they don't even refer the Artificial Humans and, apparently, they know where new Nameck is.

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Postby Deus ex Machina » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:16 pm

I know it's been one helluva long time since the discussion here...er, died. But a thought occured to me; I've seen the question of "why cant the movies fit in to the timeline?" pop up a couple times every year now, so wouldn't this thread make for a good tid-bit section? At the very least, we would have a new page to link to whenever the question comes up.

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Postby mister yummy » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:07 am

I don't think it's necroposting if a thread is sticky. Anyhow, here's my theories as to how and when the movies fit into the timeline.

Dragonball movies 1-4: All alternate timelines unrelated to each other and any timeline in the main series.

Dragonball Z Movie 1: This is quite simple. This movie takes place at least 1 year before the Arrival of Radditz. The only contridictory evidence is that Bulma and Kurillin don't know Gohan when he shows up at Kame House. It's not intirely impossible for Kurillin to have forgotten the incident. It's also not impossible that Bulma and Kurillin didn't realise that this mysterious Gohan Goku's talking about is his son. Yes, Kurillin does see him, and the tail, and the familial resemblance, but it's the best I can do.

DBZ Movie 2: This is one of my favorite movies. Alas, without resorting to contrieved "animation errors" (they forgot to draw halos, etc.), this movie can only fit in an alternate timeline. I've worked out that movies 2, 3, and 4 can all fit into the same alternate timeline with 2 major differences.

1: No one died fighting Nappa.
2: Nappa and Vegita didn't realise Piccolo is from Namek.

assuming this is true, this movie takes place at least a year after the fight with Nappa and Vegita (which seems like a long time). We assume that Vegita, beaten by Goku et al, goes back to Freeza, as he has nowhere else to go. Vegita plans to bide his time until he might become powerful enough on his own to overtake Freeza. Freeza, never hearing about planet Namek, doesn't go there right away, and the Z Fighters, not hearing the same, don't bother to go either.

Personally, I think this movie would have been even better if it, like movie 1, took place before The Arrival of Radditz. In that case, Roshi would be much more on par with Goku and Kurillin, and the movie would have worked better. Just my opinion.

DBZ Movie 3: Another year has passed in the alternate timeline, and Tullece has come to Earht as part of a plot to eat The Fruit of the Tree of Might, and become strong enough to kill Freeza. We assume it's back to business as usual for Freeza and his army, with Vegita serving him again, seemingly loyal to him, but in reality biding his time. Gohan still looks very young for being 2 years older than he was in the Saiya-jin Saga, but it's not that bad.


DBZ Movie 4: This movie's so bad, I'd like to keep it limited to a dream Goku had rejuvinating on Namek. But, it fits well into my alternate timeline. A third year has passed, and Lord Slug comes to Earth, revealing to Piccolo and the others that he's a Namek. After the events of the movie, we assume that the Z Fighters ask Kaio-sama about Namek, and decide to visit there. Coincidentally, at the same time, Freeza's natural expansion takes him and his army to Namek, and Vegita decides the time is right to try and overthrow him, especially when he learns of the Namek Dragonballs. We then assume that the series continues on pretty much like the regular timeline, just a couple of years later. It's possible that Movie 7 fits in this timeline somehow, but I'm not sure yet.

DBZ Movie 5: Now we're back to the good stuff. This movie fits better than Movie 1, in my opinion. This takes place in the first year of the 3 years training for the "Androids". Goku can go SSJ at will, but doesn't so he can fight longer, and get a better training benefit out of Coola. After all, who knows when he'll have such a strong opponent again.

DBZ Movie 6: This movie's only fault can be solved with 2 words. Unreliable narrator. I conclude that the narrator is either lying or mistaken when he says Dende is already Kami. Goku's the only one who saw Vegita as a Super Saiya-jin on New Namek, and Goku wasn't consious when he did it on Earth, to everyone's surprise. The location of New Namek, you ask? Well, that's pretty minor, really. Maybe the spaceship was set by magical means, and the Z Fighters don't know where the planet is still.

DBZ Movie 7: Definately an alternate timeline. I'm just not sure if it's the same one movies 2, 3, and 4 are in, or not. I say it's an alternate timeline where the "androids" were stopped with a remote, but it's up to the veiwer.

DBZ Movie 8: I don't see why everyone has a problem here. This movie clearly takes place in the 10 days rest before the Cell Games. There are a few problems, though. Goku and Gohan aren't Super Saiya-jin. Well, the way I see it, Chi-chi forced Goku to stop, by threatening not to give him food, so he could do the interview for the school without looking like a freak. Chi-chi has shown before that Gohan's education is more important to her than saving the world. Gohan, alas, must go out of character and simply cheat for the day. It sucks, but that's the best I can do.

DBZ Movie 9: I'm afraid I haven't seen it. Someone else will have to do this one.

DBZ Movie 10: Fits perfectly, except for a minor point, in the month or so before the 25th Budokai. Videl doesn't realise everyone's much stronger than her, which is why she takes on Brolli. No wish is made of the Dragonballs, which is why they're available a few days or weeks later. Goku isn't really there, at least no more than he is when Gohan kills Cell. The only problem is Videl knowing Trunks, which isn't anything major.

DBZ Movie 11: Another one I haven't seen. Someone else will have to do it.

DBZ Movie 12: One of my favorites. I have a controversial opinion on when and how this movie takes place. I say it's at least a year and a half after the end of the Buu Saga. Goku and Vegita have died again, intentionally, to take part in the second Annoyo-ichi Budokai. Vegita is, however, sent to hell by King Yenma, as he's having a bad day. They will later be revived by the Namek Dragonballs. When one considers this, the movie fits perfectly.

DBZ Movie 13: I haven't seen it. Someone else do it.

Well, that my thoughts on the movies, and when and how they fit. Any questions or comments?

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Postby future_trunks » Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 pm

misteryummy wrote:DBZ Movie 12: One of my favorites. I have a controversial opinion on when and how this movie takes place. I say it's at least a year and a half after the end of the Buu Saga. Goku and Vegita have died again, intentionally, to take part in the second Annoyo-ichi Budokai. Vegita is, however, sent to hell by King Yenma, as he's having a bad day. They will later be revived by the Namek Dragonballs. When one considers this, the movie fits perfectly.


Wait, your saying Goku and Vegeta died intentionally to be in the After life tournament? Why would they do that, espessially when Vegeta prety much knew that he would be sent to hell anyways? I'm confused
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Postby Duo » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:38 pm

I'm going to do the opposite of what everyone else is doing and try to pose every single reason why the movies do not fit, particularly with the ones people tend to think fit.

Movie 1 -
- Goku uses the Nyoi-bo, which should very much still be connecting Karin-sen'nin's tower with Kami-sama's palace.
- The Dragonball's get used, which means it would have to be over a year before Raditz arrival. Enough time for them to turn back into Dragonball's, and for Goku to casually find one and put it on Gohan's hat again.
- Piccolo teams up with Goku, which would severely reduce the shock of it happening against Raditz.
- KURIRIN!!! He knows Gohan and doesn't even question him being there.

Movie 2 -
- Piccolo should be dead.
- Goku should be in the hospital OR Gohan and Kuririn should be on Planet Namek, with Gohan's hair cut.
- Bulma should be rebuilding the spaceship / learning the Namek Language / travelling to Namek / being on Namek / crab hunting.

Movie 3 -
- Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu should be dead.
- Piccolo, Gohan, Kuririn, and Goku should be on Planet Namek.
- Goku, himself, should be in the middle of his fight with Freeza. The only time we see him use the Kaio-ken x10 in the series is against Freeza, and he uses it in the movie, but by the time the Freeza fight concludes, Goku has very much become the Super Saiyan.
- If we flashed forward to when all these characters were on Earth again, we have several problems. Gohan should be much stronger than 10,000 and wearing armor, and be a year and a half older with completely different hair, and Goku should be able to transform and control the Sulper Saiyan.
- Gohan is able to remain a Great Ape without a (simulated) full moon. Tell me, then, why did Goku instantly revert at the 21'st Tenka'ichi Budokai when Muten-Roshi destroyed the moon? As well as the similar situation with Gohan and Piccolo?
- How is it that a character as BAMF as Tullece could be destroyed so easily? Impossible! I say...I say...

Movie 4 -
- Gohan, Kuririn, Piccolo, and Goku should be on Namek. If we flash forward to when they are back on Earth, Gohan should be a year and a half older, have longer hair, and probably be wearing armor. Also, Goku would have full control over the Super Saiyan.
- The "false Super Saiyan" itself...

Movie 5 (these are to point out the flaws with the idea that it took place after Son Goku returned to Earth) -
- Gohan should be a year and a half older and arguably much stronger than he is shown to be (and wearing armor).
- Goku should have no problem turning Super Saiyan, instead of being pushed so far to go through the same thing he did on Namek.
- This is more arguable, but where the crap is Vegeta, Tenshinhan, and various others? They have plenty of time to go try to figure out why someone with Freeza's Ki is suddenly on Earth. This ties in with...
- The fact that they didn't notice Cooler coming to Earth. They noticed Freeza and King Cold hours before they even arrived, but not Cooler? He's right in the same strength arena as his brother and father. I could bring this argument into many of the other movies as well, but I'll refrain.

Movie 6 -
- Why bother?

Movie 7 -
- There is no place in the events of the Artifial Human arc where this could occur.
- If Dr. Gero's computer made the Artificial Humans after Dr. Gero was killed, how come they didn't have newer numbers? #13, #14, and #15 would have been made by Dr. Gero before he continued onto the ones we see in the series.

Movie 8 (Pre-RoSaT side) -
- How is Gohan a Super Saiyan?
- How does Trunks have long hair?
- How are they not in the middle of fighting a bunch of Artificially made monsters (like Cell)?

Movie 8 (Post-RoSaT side) -
- Goku and Gohan, by all accounts, have to be Super Saiyan all of the time. I know the "Chichi frying pan" excuse comes up...but be serious, that doesn't work at all. Whatsoever. There is no good reason.
- Trunks and Vegeta, most likely, should be using higher levels of Super Saiyan. This could just be an animation shortcoming, though.
- There really isn't any window of time during the 10 days prior to the Cell Game for this to occur. Try reading it all carefully.

Movie 9 -
- Trunks is the flaw. In the series, we see him about to return from his time which is why these events would occur. But when we see him in the series, he has short hair and is wearing Saiyan armor. Also, he has had three years to train and refine his skills, so he should certainly be stronger than Vegeta.
- I have problems with Goku teleporting into the real world, even if for a second, but I won't really get into it.

Movie 10 -
- There's no logical window of time for this to occur. Why are Trunks and Goten running around with Videl gathering Dragonballs? The entire time leading up to the Tournament they were, oddly enough, TRAINING.
- It's arguable that Gohan should have been able to use Ssj2, but he did not. I would think that given how dire the circumstances got near the end, he would have been able to summon up the power.

Movie 11 -
- Do I really have to get into this one?

Movie 12 -
- LOL

Movie 13 -
- This one has the fewest flaws. The big one is that Goku fells an opponent Gohan could not, and at that point Gohan is arguably several times stronger than Goku even at his very best. Of course, Goku only beats Hildegarn because he exploits his weakness, which is discovered watching other people losing. Even Gohan had figured it out, he just didn't have the strength left to execute an attack. Wait...now I'm arguing in favor of the movie...

I can forgive the lack of Boo and Mr. Satan, so really, Movie 13 is the only one I accept into the realm of Anime Canon. Conan would be proud of me.

Edit: This is, by no means, ANY indication that I dislike any of the movies at all whatsoever. I love the movies and I watch them much more often than the series DVD's. I am just boggled by why people want to detract from them by trying to make them something they are not, which is a canonical part of the central story. Let them be what they are! Fun side-stories that dont' really fit!

Everyone should just think of Path to Power or Mystical Adventure.
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Postby Deus ex Machina » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:28 pm

You make a lot of good points Duo; and I'm not refutting that most of the movies can't fit into the canon storyline for many of the reasons you point out, but I can refute some of the points themselves:

Movie 1 -
- Goku uses the Nyoi-bo, which should very much still be connecting Karin-sen'nin's tower with Kami-sama's palace.


I believe Goku still has possesion of Nyoi-bo; in fact I think they even show him wearing it on his back when Goku arrives at the 23rd Tenkaichi tournament.

- The fact that they didn't notice Cooler coming to Earth. They noticed Freeza and King Cold hours before they even arrived, but not Cooler? He's right in the same strength arena as his brother and father. I could bring this argument into many of the other movies as well, but I'll refrain.


There's nothing saying that Coola couldn't supress his Ki; he seemed to know a lot that Freeza and his father didn't in the way of techniques. Why Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Vegeta wouldn't sense his power and come to help once the fight started is a different question, but doesn't necessarily make the scenario impossible. Just stupid.

If Dr. Gero's computer made the Artificial Humans after Dr. Gero was killed, how come they didn't have newer numbers? #13, #14, and #15 would have been made by Dr. Gero before he continued onto the ones we see in the series.


No. 18 claims that Dr. Gero dismantled all of his android prototypes before No. 16, that being the case it's infeasible that Dr. Gero's computer simply rebuilt 13, 14 and 15 from their original designs.

Movie 9 -
- Trunks is the flaw. In the series, we see him about to return from his time which is why these events would occur. But when we see him in the series, he has short hair and is wearing Saiyan armor. Also, he has had three years to train and refine his skills, so he should certainly be stronger than Vegeta.


It's not as big a flaw as you think. We don't know if Trunks chose to travel back in time right after defeating Cell in his own time, for that matter we don't know how long Trunks decided to stay in the past afterwards. It's not even necessarily the same trip; he could've gone back and forth multiple times. My point is, the length of his hair is not a strong enough reason to discount it.

I have problems with Goku teleporting into the real world, even if for a second, but I won't really get into it.


Living people have traveled into the world of the dead many times in the Dragonball series, what's so unbelievable about a dead Goku with his physical body being able to use Shikan Ido to bend the laws of the living world for a few seconds?

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Postby Duo » Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:25 pm

I believe Goku still has possesion of Nyoi-bo; in fact I think they even show him wearing it on his back when Goku arrives at the 23rd Tenkaichi tournament.


We do something that [i]resembles[/b] the Nyoi-bo before the 23'rd Tenka'ichi Budokai and for some time I believed it was, but it's being held in a sheeth (spelling error, I know) that it has never been seen in before and we never see him actually take it out and use it for the entire rest of the Manga. Topping it off, you can see the Nyoi-Bo connecting Karin's Tower with Kami's Sanctuary at various times later on.

So you almost had me there, but that one can almost be put into a matter of personal opinion. I don't think there is any reason for it to be removed, especially since it would be necessary for the warriors to get up there until the Artificial Human arc, since Kinto'un cannot fly any higher than Karin's tower and warriors prior to that wouldn't have the necessary Stamina to fly up there, save Goku after training with the Lord of Worlds.

There's nothing saying that Coola couldn't supress his Ki; he seemed to know a lot that Freeza and his father didn't in the way of techniques. Why Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Vegeta wouldn't sense his power and come to help once the fight started is a different question, but doesn't necessarily make the scenario impossible. Just stupid.


A good point, but there's nothing indicating Cooler has such a capability, so it's wiser to assume he cannot do it to the degree our protagonists can. Freeza could supress his Ki in his first, second, and fourth stages so Cooler probably can, but not to the point where he's undetectable. After all, Gohan even implies that Freeza's Ki was only giving off a fraction of it's full scope when he comes to Earth.

No. 18 claims that Dr. Gero dismantled all of his android prototypes before No. 16, that being the case it's infeasible that Dr. Gero's computer simply rebuilt 13, 14 and 15 from their original designs.


Hm. You're right. I resign my point.

It's not as big a flaw as you think. We don't know if Trunks chose to travel back in time right after defeating Cell in his own time, for that matter we don't know how long Trunks decided to stay in the past afterwards. It's not even necessarily the same trip; he could've gone back and forth multiple times. My point is, the length of his hair is not a strong enough reason to discount it.


The Time Machine takes 3 years to charge for a round-trip. Trunks would be older than Vegeta if he made 3 or 4 trips back and forth. Also, it's only speculation to say he went back again. There's only one showing of him going back, so it's best to assume that it was during that trip Movie 9 was set to occur.

I know it's just a character desgin difference, but if it conlicts with the canon story, well...it matters. Just like Gohan in movie 5.

Living people have traveled into the world of the dead many times in the Dragonball series, what's so unbelievable about a dead Goku with his physical body being able to use Shikan Ido to bend the laws of the living world for a few seconds?


Well, in the Canon story, we never see the rule blatantly ignored. It's always done under the juristiction of a higher authority. I dunno, it just seems wierd Goku could, on his own power, breaks the rules of space and time. Call me crazy?

You raised some very, VERY good points though. I am impressed. I hope you can counter my own and we can have some fun with this. You are very bright.
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