Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Mister_Popo]

Not the anime. I meant the whole manga. And he still has the most control over his own story.

Most control? He used to draw the battle scenes himself. It's a shounen anime/manga. The battle scenes are a critical part of the story. Now basically everything is drawn for him. If he'd make the Super manga completely himself and the anime would be an adaptation, if the story would be really bad, you could maybe say it's Toriyama's mistake. Now i would say, if there is something you wouldn't like, it's the franchise, the partnership, that has co-made the product, you'd have to blame for it.

Fighting is just for how a story looks. Toriyama is still the person in charge of the whole concept. The story. The meaning. He may not be in control of what fights look (becuase he doesn’t want to be, but he can if he wants), but he is in charge of who is fighting, where the fight is, when the fight is, and why the fight is happening.

People dont have a problem with the fights. They have a problem with some of the story. One of the men to blame for that is Toriyama.

Toriyamas seedstories for BOG, FT and TOP were pretty good in my opinion. They should appoint a small group of people (DB Room (Shueisha) and TOEI that make a detailed storyboard. This boarding committee could operate under a central supervisor, which could be Toriyama or someone new. Power levels, character development, how the fights happen, how the story unfolds, everything has to be made in all its detail long before an episode is made . With the movie this is relatively manageble, but when the new series drop, they first have to make such a detailed storyboard before the execution starts. Now a lot of the story is actually filled (by TOEI for instance) when the anime is already made. This while everything used to be based on the original manga. Episodes have different writers and that’s how you get inconcistencies.

This is not Toriyamas mistake, this is how the franchise operates at the moment. Multiple guys can work on the script (with or without Toriyamas approval), but the script has to be tailor made before the actual execution of episodes or movies start, and ideally it are always the same people that do it to get the story right in all its detail. Overview and concistency are key factors for a good story.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

He said that the final battle will even top Goku vs Jiren. Now that's exciting!

What's he supposed to say? The final battle will be underwhelming, and many will be disappointed? lol

He can say that the final battle will be good but to say that it's better than Goku vs Jiren sets a standard.

And one you shouldn't fall for. This is typical producer-y talk. Don't fall for anything especially since most of the talk has been on paper, we haven't had a trailer yet. Before DBS aired in 2015 there was advertising in a magazine claiming it would have "beautiful visuals" or something similar, need I remind you #5. I'd recommend keeping expectations in check.

[PFM18]

The head of the DB room said Goku's final fight in the movie may be better than his final with Jiren so at the very least we'll have something amazing to look at. He also talks about the role this room had in the story, saying that their suggestions were used to help Toriyama come up with the story. The story is described as a multilayered space opera so it sounds like there'll be a lot more going on than in the previous 2 movies.

Good news it's not a pure Toriyama script! Or rather not purely all his ideas at least.

I think its been this way since BOG.

Wait so they revealed the final fight would be with Goku in the movie? I was hoping the final fight would involve Vegeta....

As far as the fight being better than the fight with Jiren, I think that may be wishful thinking. Jiren vs Goku to me is undoubtedly the greatest fight in the franchise and it isn't even close. To replicate something that good would be extremely difficult to say the least.

[sintzu]

Wait so they revealed the final fight would be with Goku in the movie? I was hoping the final fight would involve Vegeta....

Jiren vs Goku to me is undoubtedly the greatest fight in the franchise and it isn't even close. To replicate something that good would be extremely difficult to say the least.

Goku's the main character so this isn't surprising as most expected it. That of course doesn't mean Vegeta won't take part in it as saying that would be a major spoiler and they seem to be keeping things close to the chest for the time being.

You've got the best team at Toei working on it and probably the biggest budget yet so although it's difficult I think it's possible.

[PFM18]

Wait so they revealed the final fight would be with Goku in the movie? I was hoping the final fight would involve Vegeta....

Jiren vs Goku to me is undoubtedly the greatest fight in the franchise and it isn't even close. To replicate something that good would be extremely difficult to say the least.

Goku's the main character so this isn't surprising as most expected it. That of course doesn't mean Vegeta won't take part in it as saying that would be a major spoiler and they seem to be keeping things close to the chest for the time being.

You've got the best team at Toei working on it and probably the biggest budget yet so although it's difficult I think it's possible.

Yeah it shouldn't be surprising but I still find it disappointing. Like you said, if Vegeta were to play a big role in the final fight that would be a pretty big spoiler that they wouldn't reveal this early but still.

[Ki Breaker]

Jiren vs Goku is a simple fast paced fight, this is going into "you can't define good" territory, but, as I saw it, the fight wasn't any better than say the garlic jr fight, sure it had lots of animation but the actual fighting dynamics and presentation didn't leave behind any lasting impression on me..

As for this particular upcoming fight being better than that fight, it is expected, given the various core design changes made for this movie, the people behind it and other conditions we learned about, this movie has a lot of potential..

[sintzu]

Yeah it shouldn't be surprising but I still find it disappointing.

Did you really expect Goku to not get the big fight at the end ? that'd be a very risky financial move, even for someone like me who's been calling for changes. I'll be happy as long as Vegeta has a respectable role in the movie.

[PFM18]

Yeah it shouldn't be surprising but I still find it disappointing.

Did you really expect Goku to not get the big fight at the end ? that'd be a very risky financial move, even for someone like me who's been calling for changes. I'll be happy as long as Vegeta has a respectable role in the movie.

I mean like I said I wasn't surprised. The expectation is always Goku being the focus, but as we saw in DBS the only true win Goku actually got was when he defeated Jiren. Now it is pretty common for Goku to lose and given the development Vegeta got during the ToP, on top of getting a new form, I think Vegeta getting spotlight wouldn't be outlandish especially considering the movie is about Saiyans and he is the Saiyan Prince.

As far as this final fight being better than Goku vs Jiren, that fight set the standard for Goku fights and it will just be hard to beat that standard regardless of the time and budget going into this.

[sintzu]

I think Vegeta getting spotlight wouldn't be outlandish especially considering the movie is about Saiyans and he is the Saiyan Prince.

Of course he's going to have a major role, they're just not going to tell us about it. In RF the marketing was completely focused on Base Goku's fight against 4th form Freeza while everything after which was the main fight wasn't shown at all so you can expect the same thing to happen here. I won't be surprised if both Goku and Vegeta use UI and it's not shown anywhere and instead kept as a surprise like their fight in Blue against Freeza was.

[PFM18]

I think Vegeta getting spotlight wouldn't be outlandish especially considering the movie is about Saiyans and he is the Saiyan Prince.

Of course he's going to have a major role, they're just not going to tell us about it. In RF the marketing was completely focused on Base Goku's fight against 4th form Freeza while everything after which was the main fight wasn't shown at all so you can expect the same thing to happen here. I won't be surprised if both Goku and Vegeta use UI and it's not shown anywhere and instead kept as a surprise like their fight in Blue against Freeza was.

Yeah that's fair. We've just gotta wait and see

[Michsi]

Thanks for translating the interview

Gotta admit, this section right here -

What part of Toriyama-sensei does that appeal of the story come from?
What I’ve felt through having worked all this time with him is that Toriyama-sensei never gets too serious, in a good way. There’s a “lightness” to it that’s not about building and building upon things like established settings and logic. That’s something no one else can bring out. Normally, you wouldn’t be able to create without building upon those things, but he has this amazing way of just skipping right past it. But it’s not that one should simply skip past such things, but that he himself possesses a sense of timing that allows him to skip past it, and it’s that way of going about it that’s exceptional.

- got me a scratching my head. I mean I get that it's about Toriyama's tendency to keep things light, but that's pretty much it. And that bit about not caring about established settings and logic- that bit is a little frustrating.

dragon ball had 4 tournament arcs and shonen genre is full of them. Try again.

Dragon Ball had 10 arcs, 3 of which were tournaments. DBS has 5 arcs, including retellings, and 2 of which are tournaments.

[AnimeNation101]

Do you really want DB to just be another predictable, formulaic show just made to sell merchandise ? that's not what DB originally was when Toriyama wrote the manga back in the day.

IMO, BoG and RoF both suffered precisely because they stuck to the Dragon Ball Formula, aka Waiting For Goku, to make feature length films out of plots that didn't require it. You could cut the Waiting For Goku parts out of both movies and trim them down to much tighter 40-60 minute specials. BoG at least had the decency to shake up the status quo at the end, but in RoF all the changes to the status quo were in place at the beginning of the movie, and at the end the only real change was that Frieza wasn't a cyborg in hell. What's worse is that it teases two alternate scenarios (reviving King Cold and Goku/Vegeta teaming up to fight Frieza) that were more interesting than the one the movie delivered.

The cherry on top is that Frieza's return in the ToP arc provides a plausible explanation for why he's so strong (years of intense mental training), which just further proves how unnecessary RoF was in the grand scheme of things. Could you imagine if our first look at Golden Frieza had been him killing the U9 assassins after that glorious transformation sequence? That would have been a mind blowing moment!

I hate the “waiting for Goku formula”. The movies not written by Toriyama do it better when they have Goku and company all together to fight the foe right at the beginning of the fight instead of everyone getting bodied and then “Savior Son Goku” descends from the heavens to save the day.

Well, it does seem like Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza are all gonna confront the villain at around the same time so i hope that means there is no “waiting for Goku” time in this movie.

[AnimeNation101]

What's he supposed to say? The final battle will be underwhelming, and many will be disappointed? lol

He can say that the final battle will be good but to say that it's better than Goku vs Jiren sets a standard.

And one you shouldn't fall for. This is typical producer-y talk. Don't fall for anything especially since most of the talk has been on paper, we haven't had a trailer yet. Before DBS aired in 2015 there was advertising in a magazine claiming it would have "beautiful visuals" or something similar, need I remind you #5. I'd recommend keeping expectations in check.

Even without what the guy said, i feel like with just the staff we know will be one the movie, it will already be better than the Jiren battle.

I think Vegeta getting spotlight wouldn't be outlandish especially considering the movie is about Saiyans and he is the Saiyan Prince.

Of course he's going to have a major role, they're just not going to tell us about it. In RF the marketing was completely focused on Base Goku's fight against 4th form Freeza while everything after which was the main fight wasn't shown at all so you can expect the same thing to happen here. I won't be surprised if both Goku and Vegeta use UI and it's not shown anywhere and instead kept as a surprise like their fight in Blue against Freeza was.

Yeah that's fair. We've just gotta wait and see

At the very least, Vegeta might get a badass line talking about how he’s the saiyan prince to the saiyan enemies and then he would get a cool beat down in. And if Vegeta does sadly job, at least we’ll have Freeza to job with him.

I hope we get a Goku, Freeza, and Vegeta team up scene like in the T.o.P except it was 17 instead of Vegeta.

[Toxin45]

I think Vegeta getting spotlight wouldn't be outlandish especially considering the movie is about Saiyans and he is the Saiyan Prince.

Of course he's going to have a major role, they're just not going to tell us about it. In RF the marketing was completely focused on Base Goku's fight against 4th form Freeza while everything after which was the main fight wasn't shown at all so you can expect the same thing to happen here. I won't be surprised if both Goku and Vegeta use UI and it's not shown anywhere and instead kept as a surprise like their fight in Blue against Freeza was.

Doubt vegeta would get ui though cause that would be harder for him to do and would just have him copy goku.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Thanks for translating the interview

Gotta admit, this section right here -

What part of Toriyama-sensei does that appeal of the story come from?
What I’ve felt through having worked all this time with him is that Toriyama-sensei never gets too serious, in a good way. There’s a “lightness” to it that’s not about building and building upon things like established settings and logic. That’s something no one else can bring out. Normally, you wouldn’t be able to create without building upon those things, but he has this amazing way of just skipping right past it. But it’s not that one should simply skip past such things, but that he himself possesses a sense of timing that allows him to skip past it, and it’s that way of going about it that’s exceptional.

- got me a scratching my head. I mean I get that it's about Toriyama's tendency to keep things light, but that's pretty much it. And that bit about not caring about established settings and logic- that bit is a little frustrating.

Yeah, to the average reader, it can come off as him saying that Toriyama simply doesn't care about making an actual flowing story with a built-up world and setting behind it.

There's definitely some context behind what was said that's inconveniently missing.

[sintzu]

Doubt vegeta would get ui though cause that would be harder for him to do and would just have him copy goku.

The last 2 movies introduced new forms so that would be a way to do it without coming up with a completely new one. They could give him UI Omen for a few seconds and that could set him up getting the full one once Super returns.

[WittyUsername]

I’d prefer that UI be exclusive to Goku. With how it’s been treated as this almost unattainable level of power that surpasses even the Gods of Destruction, I think it would cheapen its impact if other people started using it. Then again, this is the same franchise that once built up super saiyans as this legendary level of power, so go figure.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

They've started prepping early for global release (as further evidenced by the south American releases in Jan) that's a very relieving thing to read, for once they look to be on top of things! But unfortunately the UK is stuck with Toei Europe while everyone will probably get it early 2019 we'll probably have to wait until the spring. /:

[sintzu]

They've started prepping early for global release (as further evidenced by the south American releases in Jan) that's a very relieving thing to read, for once they look to be on top of things! But unfortunately the UK is stuck with Toei Europe while everyone will probably get it early 2019 we'll probably have to wait until the spring. /:

Early 2019 would be better than what we got before but that's still late when you take into account that spoilers will spread the minute it opens in Japan. Then you've got all the merchandise they'll announce soon after which will most likely include major spoilers.

[Mister_Popo]

I’d prefer that UI be exclusive to Goku. With how it’s been treated as this almost unattainable level of power that surpasses even the Gods of Destruction, I think it would cheapen its impact if other people started using it. Then again, this is the same franchise that once built up super saiyans as this legendary level of power, so go figure.

Super Saiyan once was this legendary unique ability, and now it has literarily become childsplay. Something being OP is no real argument IMHO since the benchmark or definition of what's OP always tend to shift as the series progress.
A reason why UI could become the new benchmark: it's not a SSJ-ability, theoretically it would give opportunities for Piccolo or humans to catch up on the long run (headcanon i admit). Nothing suggests they would be as strong as Goku or the Gods if they'd learn UI to some degree. They are less powerful all the way, but UI could give them a significant boost.
A reason why it wouldn't become the benchmark so soon: you destroy story opportunities with the Gods of Destruction, they are created for a reason, a second duel with Beerus or another God becoming the villain of an arc might still be a possibility. But logically speaking: the usage of UI at will would become the next step within Gokus divine training schedule.