"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[emperior]

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

It's pretty easy to assume that Toriyama's not overly-involved when we have a Yardrat based on an anime-only design, a new Broly, and two widely different interpretation of Super's narratives between anime and manga. In fact, we specifically know that Kale wasn't Toriyama's creation, but comes from the Dragon Ball Room. The origins of the FT Arc also come from an editorial office.

He's still writing the stories, but Toriyama's involvement is far more diluted compared to every other DB project he's been intimately involved with.

When was it ever said Kale is a Dragon Ball Room's idea?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

When was it ever said Kale is a Dragon Ball Room's idea?

It's pretty obviously implied in an interview from back when we first learned of the DB Room. Also, it's Broly, of course that's not a Toriyama idea.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

It's pretty easy to assume that Toriyama's not overly-involved when we have a Yardrat based on an anime-only design, a new Broly, and two widely different interpretation of Super's narratives between anime and manga. In fact, we specifically know that Kale wasn't Toriyama's creation, but comes from the Dragon Ball Room. The origins of the FT Arc also come from an editorial office.

He's still writing the stories, but Toriyama's involvement is far more diluted compared to every other DB project he's been intimately involved with.

When was it ever said Kale is a Dragon Ball Room's idea?

It wasn't. A producer was talking about DB influences and that Broly was popular overseas, then Kale happened and people now think Dragon Room was responsible.

Bottom line with everything about Super we simply don't know things except for the facts which are Toriyama is writings outlines and doing designs.

[emperior]

When was it ever said Kale is a Dragon Ball Room's idea?

It's pretty obviously implied in an interview from back when we first learned of the DB Room. Also, it's Broly, of course that's not a Toriyama idea.

That's not 100% sure though, but you are most likely right. Though Toyotaro also said his idea would make it into the story (we don't know when, he might have been talking about his manga) so I assumed Kale came from him.
Toriyama definitely approved this idea because he also designed Caulifla and probably wrote some battles for Kale.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't buy the logic that since Toriyama didn't create Broly that means Kale isn't his work. Firstly he did design Broly and secondly Broly's creator isn't involved at all, thirdly the big one Kale is not Broly she is Kale, if Toei wanted to put Broly in they would have as is none of this skirting around but they haven't, the fact they haven't adds more credence to the fact this is Toriyama's doing. What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

[dbgtFO]

What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking ever since we saw her character design in V jump with the normal muscular build and pupils. It would be a good question to ask those involved for sure.

[Chuquita]

I think the idea of Kale came from the Dragon Ball Room ("Marketing!", as MasakoX would say) but her base design came from Toyotaro because he follows My Hero Academia and she looks identical to a girl from that.

Only reason I could see her being from Toriyama is if this is a gotcha to Brolli's creator Koyama for badmouthing Beerus in favor of Brolli.

[emperior]

I think the idea of Kale came from the Dragon Ball Room ("Marketing!", as MasakoX would say) but her base design came from Toyotaro because he follows My Hero Academia and she looks identical to a girl from that.

Only reason I could see her being from Toriyama is if this is a gotcha to Brolli's creator Koyama for badmouthing Beerus in favor of Brolli.

Toriyama created Broly, though.

[Chuquita]

I think the idea of Kale came from the Dragon Ball Room ("Marketing!", as MasakoX would say) but her base design came from Toyotaro because he follows My Hero Academia and she looks identical to a girl from that.

Only reason I could see her being from Toriyama is if this is a gotcha to Brolli's creator Koyama for badmouthing Beerus in favor of Brolli.

Toriyama created Broly, though.

They're co-Creators; Toriyama did character designs, but Koyama decided on the plot stuff.

[ArchedThunder]

What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking ever since we saw her character design in V jump with the normal muscular build and pupils. It would be a good question to ask those involved for sure.

We saw that design after we had already seen her Berserk form. The thinner design is probably after she gets control of the form.

[dbgtFO]

What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking ever since we saw her character design in V jump with the normal muscular build and pupils. It would be a good question to ask those involved for sure.

We saw that design after we had already seen her Berserk form. The thinner design is probably after she gets control of the form.

I know and I too think the latter is a possibility.

[YonedgeHP]

-Universe 2 team-

While it makes sense they keep the last 2 fighters of Universe 6 team as a surprise, especially if they belong to races we know, the 2 on the background of Universe 2 team picked my curiosity:


Brianne seems to be Universe 2 trump card, but these two are being kept in mystery and they are from new races. I wonder if they are up to something.

That Gero guy seems to be from Toppo's race, and remember that Universe 2 and Universe 11 are twins.

[HeroR]

I don't buy the logic that since Toriyama didn't create Broly that means Kale isn't his work. Firstly he did design Broly and secondly Broly's creator isn't involved at all, thirdly the big one Kale is not Broly she is Kale, if Toei wanted to put Broly in they would have as is none of this skirting around but they haven't, the fact they haven't adds more credence to the fact this is Toriyama's doing. What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

I can see Dragon Room giving a suggesting to including Broly in some way, like they suggested something for the Future Trunks Saga, but Toriyama put his own twist on it.

But too many people around her are speaking with certainty about stuff we don't know.

[Xeztin]

Toyotaro had Broly in his AF, I wouldn't be surprised if Toyotaro and Toriyama designed Kale together with Help from Shueisha/Toei. (Since Toyotaro and Toriyama sometimes struggles with Saiyan girls) Broly is a very popular character in Japan despite some assuming its only outside of Japan that he is popular. He has had 4 movies and 3 unique forms in Heroes. The guy is literally in everything, Super calenders, candy, keychines etc. despite not even being in the show. If anything Kale's going to boost his popularity and want even more. (As in fans wanting him in the show) I'd wadger Trunks, Broly, Bardock, Freeza and Black are the biggest cash bringers for every company with some kind of Dragon Ball marketing license.

[TheMikado]

I don't buy the logic that since Toriyama didn't create Broly that means Kale isn't his work. Firstly he did design Broly and secondly Broly's creator isn't involved at all, thirdly the big one Kale is not Broly she is Kale, if Toei wanted to put Broly in they would have as is none of this skirting around but they haven't, the fact they haven't adds more credence to the fact this is Toriyama's doing. What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

I can see Dragon Room giving a suggesting to including Broly in some way, like they suggested something for the Future Trunks Saga, but Toriyama put his own twist on it.

But too many people around her are speaking with certainty about stuff we don't know.

From what I'm gathering, and this has been happening since BOGs.

Toei/editorial staff approach Toriyamas with some preconceived idea.

Toriyama takes those ideas and rewrites them into an outline and doe some character designs and notes

The outline at least for the universal arc and possible previously has been described as barebones by the producer.

Toei and Toyotaro take this and flesh it out. They have freedom to add, delete, or change things as they wish.

Toriyama gets final OK.

[MisteryOne]

I don't buy the logic that since Toriyama didn't create Broly that means Kale isn't his work. Firstly he did design Broly and secondly Broly's creator isn't involved at all, thirdly the big one Kale is not Broly she is Kale, if Toei wanted to put Broly in they would have as is none of this skirting around but they haven't, the fact they haven't adds more credence to the fact this is Toriyama's doing. What I think is more plausible is that Toei just refined Kale to look slightly more like Broly when she transforms.

I can see Dragon Room giving a suggesting to including Broly in some way, like they suggested something for the Future Trunks Saga, but Toriyama put his own twist on it.

But too many people around her are speaking with certainty about stuff we don't know.

From what I'm gathering, and this has been happening since BOGs.

Toei/editorial staff approach Toriyamas with some preconceived idea.

Toriyama takes those ideas and rewrites them into an outline and doe some character designs and notes

The outline at least for the universal arc and possible previously has been described as barebones by the producer.

Toei and Toyotaro take this and flesh it out. They have freedom to add, delete, or change things as they wish.

Toriyama gets final OK.

Pretty sure ROF is 100% Toriyama trough. And the only real differences between manga and anime in the Champa arc is the final battle, so we could consider it as well. But since then yeah, both FT and the actual arc seem suggestions based on what fans want transformed into an outline by Toriyama and stories by Toyotaro and Toei.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I can see Dragon Room giving a suggesting to including Broly in some way, like they suggested something for the Future Trunks Saga, but Toriyama put his own twist on it.

But too many people around her are speaking with certainty about stuff we don't know.

From what I'm gathering, and this has been happening since BOGs.

Toei/editorial staff approach Toriyamas with some preconceived idea.

Toriyama takes those ideas and rewrites them into an outline and doe some character designs and notes

The outline at least for the universal arc and possible previously has been described as barebones by the producer.

Toei and Toyotaro take this and flesh it out. They have freedom to add, delete, or change things as they wish.

Toriyama gets final OK.

Pretty sure ROF is 100% Toriyama trough. And the only real differences between manga and anime in the Champa arc is the final battle, so we could consider it as well. But since then yeah, both FT and the actual arc seem suggestions based on what fans want transformed into an outline by Toriyama and stories by Toyotaro and Toei.

I dont really think its been so much what we want. I mean yes certain parts of the fanbase have wanted certain things but I would actually say most of these things have received more negative than positive attention. Future Trunks coming back and an "evil goku" being the two glaring exceptions.

[HeroR]

From what I'm gathering, and this has been happening since BOGs.

Toei/editorial staff approach Toriyamas with some preconceived idea.

Toriyama takes those ideas and rewrites them into an outline and doe some character designs and notes

The outline at least for the universal arc and possible previously has been described as barebones by the producer.

Toei and Toyotaro take this and flesh it out. They have freedom to add, delete, or change things as they wish.

Toriyama gets final OK.

Pretty sure ROF is 100% Toriyama trough. And the only real differences between manga and anime in the Champa arc is the final battle, so we could consider it as well. But since then yeah, both FT and the actual arc seem suggestions based on what fans want transformed into an outline by Toriyama and stories by Toyotaro and Toei.

I dont really think its been so much what we want. I mean yes certain parts of the fanbase have wanted certain things but I would actually say most of these things have received more negative than positive attention. Future Trunks coming back and an "evil goku" being the two glaring exceptions.

The fan reaction here doesn't represent the larger fanbase. Most of what Super has done has gotten a positive reaction except for the retellings.

[Dbzfan94]

The fan reaction here doesn't represent the larger fanbase. Most of what Super has done has gotten a positive reaction except for the retellings.

There's a loooot of people who hate how the Black arc ended.

[HeroR]

The fan reaction here doesn't represent the larger fanbase. Most of what Super has done has gotten a positive reaction except for the retellings.

There's a loooot of people who hate how the Black arc ended.

And just as many people loved it because it finally subverts the death is cheap narrative of Dragon Ball. There is reason why there is a term called 'vocal minority'. People who love something are usually not as vocal as the people who hate something.