"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

Wasn't the decision not to go after Gero a unanimous decision by the stupid cast? So they're pretty much all to blame for that too.

Yep, but Goku is apart of the blame

[kinisking]

Wasn't the decision not to go after Gero a unanimous decision by the stupid cast? So they're pretty much all to blame for that too.

Krillin was the only person who had a credible reason for it.

[TekTheNinja]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

No, you just don't understand how fault works. It relies on a consequence coming about due to that persons actions
Direct fault - Goku choosing not to go after Gero when warned
Indirect - Pushing Zamasu off the edge

These actions have him willingly choosing the circumstance that leads him into the concequence, whether he knows or not. And yes, that makes him reminding the omni-king indirectly his fault, but it's understandable why he'd make this mistake. With fault, it does not matter if your action was justified or not, that just changes the reaction to it.

The Saiyans were not his fault, he had no choice in the matter (He was a baby!) and those were not his actions. He didn't go to Earth, he was sent to Earth.

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT. Goku being the reason bad things happen is getting really old. I know Goku didn't even know about the Saiyans, but he was still the reason they showed up. He was the cause and he's almost always the cause and that's stale as fuck. So including the detail that Goku's the reason Zeno remembered the tournament is just annoying. And it also plays into the whole, "Goku is way to stupid now" thing since he should have known that Zeno's not to be trusted.

[Kanassa]

Really? Really? What I'm saying isn't complicated. No, Goku doesn't MEAN to cause the things he causes, BUT HE STILL CAUSES THEM.

No, you just don't understand how fault works. It relies on a consequence coming about due to that persons actions
Direct fault - Goku choosing not to go after Gero when warned
Indirect - Pushing Zamasu off the edge

These actions have him willingly choosing the circumstance that leads him into the concequence, whether he knows or not. And yes, that makes him reminding the omni-king indirectly his fault, but it's understandable why he'd make this mistake. With fault, it does not matter if your action was justified or not, that just changes the reaction to it.

The Saiyans were not his fault, he had no choice in the matter (He was a baby!) and those were not his actions. He didn't go to Earth, he was sent to Earth.

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT.

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

[TekTheNinja]

No, you just don't understand how fault works. It relies on a consequence coming about due to that persons actions
Direct fault - Goku choosing not to go after Gero when warned
Indirect - Pushing Zamasu off the edge

These actions have him willingly choosing the circumstance that leads him into the concequence, whether he knows or not. And yes, that makes him reminding the omni-king indirectly his fault, but it's understandable why he'd make this mistake. With fault, it does not matter if your action was justified or not, that just changes the reaction to it.

The Saiyans were not his fault, he had no choice in the matter (He was a baby!) and those were not his actions. He didn't go to Earth, he was sent to Earth.

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT.

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

[Kanassa]

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT.

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

BY that logic everyone is to blame for everything and there for the concept of fault and responsibility loses all meaning. Thus you can't really complain about anyone being at fault because they will always be at fault.

[Boo Machine]

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT.

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

Can we go further then? It's Goku's parents fault for making him exist.

Or if you want to go out there it's Freeza's fault for failing at a Saiyan Genocide.

[TekTheNinja]

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

BY that logic everyone is to blame for everything and there for the concept of fault and responsibility loses all meaning. Thus you can't really complain about anyone being at fault because they will always be at fault.

Honestly I don't really give a fuck about all this, "Oh, but he's not at FAULT though" shit. My point is Goku being the cause of all the conflicts is a boring and stale. If Zeno just remembered ON HIS OWN then all would be well, but nope. Goku's gotta cause the conflict AGAIN.

[Kanassa]

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

BY that logic everyone is to blame for everything and there for the concept of fault and responsibility loses all meaning. Thus you can't really complain about anyone being at fault because they will always be at fault.

Honestly I don't really give a fuck about all this, "Oh, but he's not at FAULT though" shit. My point is Goku being the cause of all the conflicts is a boring and stale. If Zeno just remembered ON HIS OWN then all would be well, but nope. Goku's gotta cause the conflict AGAIN.

Your logic makes your complaint meaningless. You want Goku to stop causing conflict, yet by your own thought process that can never be attained because everyone is always in some way the cause.

[TekTheNinja]

BY that logic everyone is to blame for everything and there for the concept of fault and responsibility loses all meaning. Thus you can't really complain about anyone being at fault because they will always be at fault.

Honestly I don't really give a fuck about all this, "Oh, but he's not at FAULT though" shit. My point is Goku being the cause of all the conflicts is a boring and stale. If Zeno just remembered ON HIS OWN then all would be well, but nope. Goku's gotta cause the conflict AGAIN.

Your logic makes your complaint meaningless. You want Goku to stop causing conflict, yet by your own thought process that can never be attained because everyone is always in some way the cause.

No. No not really. If Goku didn't remind Zeno, he would not be the cause. Simple. This is simple shit dude.

[Kanassa]

Honestly I don't really give a fuck about all this, "Oh, but he's not at FAULT though" shit. My point is Goku being the cause of all the conflicts is a boring and stale. If Zeno just remembered ON HIS OWN then all would be well, but nope. Goku's gotta cause the conflict AGAIN.

Your logic makes your complaint meaningless. You want Goku to stop causing conflict, yet by your own thought process that can never be attained because everyone is always in some way the cause.

No. No not really. If Goku didn't remind Zeno, he would not be the cause. Simple. This is simple shit dude.

He would be the cause, since by your own logic, his existence caused this.

[TekTheNinja]

Your logic makes your complaint meaningless. You want Goku to stop causing conflict, yet by your own thought process that can never be attained because everyone is always in some way the cause.

No. No not really. If Goku didn't remind Zeno, he would not be the cause. Simple. This is simple shit dude.

He would be the cause, since by your own logic, his existence caused this.

NO. That's not at all... Goku's existence caused the Saiyans to arrive, yes. But no, it didn't fucking cause Zeno to start a tournament him REMINDING Zeno caused him to start the tournament. THIS IS FUCKING SIMPLE.

Jesus, dude. I'm honestly really tired of having to explain my VERY SIMPLE complaint.

[Lord Frieza]

Yes. It's indirectly his fault. SO YES. IT IS HIS FAULT.

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

You cannot place blame someone just because bad things happend due to them existing. You can blame someone for doing something stupid, you can blame them for doing something bad and you can even blame someone for making a wrong choice or an accident but what you cannot do is blame someone for existing or blame them for others doing things because they exist.

If a women dies during pregnancy is it the fault of the baby growing inside her? No, the baby is not a contuse being and as such it is not capable of rational thought. A baby dose not have higher reasoning power and is almost completely immobile and defenseless. The women's death is a pure accident or mishap, if it was an avoidable medical problem that could be anticipated then the blame falls on the docters caring for her but if its not then none is to blame. Except unless you want to be a real dick about it and blame the women for ever wanting children.

Goku was a baby and for the reasons I've listed above he cannot ever be held responsible foe the saiyans sending him to earth or coming to find him latter. Also you cannot blame a being for existing when they themselves neither chose or asked to be born in the first place. Children do not chose to exist, if they did their are many who would never be born into this unfair, indifferent world.

So no such things can never be Goku's fault.

[Kanassa]

No. No not really. If Goku didn't remind Zeno, he would not be the cause. Simple. This is simple shit dude.

He would be the cause, since by your own logic, his existence caused this.

NO. That's not at all... Goku's existence caused the Saiyans to arrive, yes. But no, it didn't fucking cause Zeno to start a tournament him REMINDING Zeno caused him to start the tournament. THIS IS FUCKING SIMPLE.

Jesus, dude. I'm honestly really tired of having to explain my VERY SIMPLE complaint.

If Goku wasn't around, Beerus wouldn't of found an opponent who caught his interest, he wouldn't have gone to earth (And if for some reason Vegeta still ended up on earth, Beerus would of blown it up), he wouldn't have started the tournament with Champa and thus Zeno would never think up the Universal Tournament. But no, you're right. It's all the Z-fighter's fault. Every single one of them that's responsible for Goku and the Earth still living, thus causing all these events to happen.

Roshi trained Goku, Krillin awakened Goku's inner power, Tien held Cell back, Vegeta helped out, and Grampa Gohan didn't strangle that Saiyan baby when it landed. Then it's Bardock and Gine's fault for having sex, then it's Gine and Bardock's fault for being attractive, then it's their parents fault, and theirs. Until we get to the people who first created mortals. So, it's also the kais faults, then it goes to the Gods above them and so on. Everyone is at fault, so it is impossible for Goku to not be at fault

[TekTheNinja]

It isn't indirectly his fault, it came about by the actions of another, everything was due to another person's action, not his own. Goku did nothing but exist.

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

You cannot place blame someone just because bad things happend due to them existing. You can blame someone for doing something stupid, you can blame them for doing something bad and you can even blame someone for making a wrong choice or an accident but what you cannot do is blame someone for existing or blame them for others doing things because they exist.

If a women dies during pregnancy is it the fault of the baby growing inside her? No, the baby is not a contuse being and as such it is not capable of rational thought. A baby dose not have higher reasoning power and is almost completely immobile and defenseless. The women's death is a pure accident or mishap, if it was an avoidable medical problem that could be anticipated then the blame falls on the docters caring for her but if its not then none is to blame. Except unless you want to be a real dick about it and blame the women for ever wanting children.

Goku was a baby and for the reasons I've listed above he cannot ever be held responsible foe the saiyans sending him to earth or coming to find him latter. Also you cannot blame a being for existing when they themselves neither chose or asked to be born in the first place. Children do not chose to exist, if they did their are many who would never be born into this unfair, indifferent world.

So no such things can never be Goku's fault.

Alright. Fine. Fault was the wrong word, but I really don't see why that matters. You know what I meant.

He would be the cause, since by your own logic, his existence caused this.

NO. That's not at all... Goku's existence caused the Saiyans to arrive, yes. But no, it didn't fucking cause Zeno to start a tournament him REMINDING Zeno caused him to start the tournament. THIS IS FUCKING SIMPLE.

Jesus, dude. I'm honestly really tired of having to explain my VERY SIMPLE complaint.

If Goku wasn't around, Beerus wouldn't of found an opponent who caught his interest, he wouldn't have gone to earth (And if for some reason Vegeta still ended up on earth, Beerus would of blown it up), he wouldn't have started the tournament with Champa and thus Zeno would never think up the Universal Tournament. But no, you're right. It's all the Z-fighter's fault. Every single one of them that's responsible for Goku and the Earth still living, thus causing all these events to happen.

Roshi trained Goku, Krillin awakened Goku's inner power, Tien held Cell back, Vegeta helped out, and Grampa Gohan didn't strangle that Saiyan baby when it landed. Then it's Bardock and Gine's fault for having sex, then it's Gine and Bardock's fault for being attractive, then it's their parents fault, and theirs. Until we get to the people who first created mortals. So, it's also the kais faults, then it goes to the Gods above them and so on. Everyone is at fault, so it is impossible for Goku to not be at fault

Stop it. Seriously, just stop it. Fine, fault was the wrong word, but my point was OBVIOUS.

[Kanassa]

Alright. Fine. Fault was the wrong word, but I really don't see why that matters. You know what I meant.

If fault is the wrong word, then I do not now what you mean. Your complaint was that you were sick that Goku kept causing all the conflicts in Dragonball.

[TheMikado]

AND HIS EXISTENCE CAUSED IT. So it's his fault.

BY that logic everyone is to blame for everything and there for the concept of fault and responsibility loses all meaning. Thus you can't really complain about anyone being at fault because they will always be at fault.

Honestly I don't really give a fuck about all this, "Oh, but he's not at FAULT though" shit. My point is Goku being the cause of all the conflicts is a boring and stale. If Zeno just remembered ON HIS OWN then all would be well, but nope. Goku's gotta cause the conflict AGAIN.

Give up, I made this comment pages ago and was immediately jumped on and given every reason in the book why Goku is NEVER the cause directly or indirectly of any of the problems he and the world experiences... even when he himself acknowledges this in universe but oh well.

But yes, Goku constantly being a direct or indirect cause of problems is soooooooo tired. The future Trunks saga is a perfect example of why Goku is SUCH an annoyance. Trunks not only defeated the androids and prevented Cell, but ALSO fought Dabura prevented Buu without messing around. Literally the ONLY reason Trunks future was completely wrecked in because Goku in ANOTHER freaking timeline fights some psycho who wants to mass murder people and decides to head to Trunks timeline. Trunks does crap the way it should've been handled and gets eternally punished for it, meanwhile Goku mere existence causes trouble and somehow he always experiences some kind of privilege for it. It was cute at first but now it's just plain annoying. I would just like Goku to no be the indirect or direct cause of something for once AND be forced to clean up the mess.. but no it's never Gokus fault.. this is not normal behavior and normalizing this indifference for consequences is a mistake and I really doubt was Toriyama original point of the character.

[Kanassa]

I would just like Goku to no be the indirect or direct cause of something for once AND be forced to clean up the mess.. but no it's never Gokus fault.. this is not normal behavior and normalizing this indifference for consequences is a mistake and I really doubt was Toriyama original point of the character.

We've already shown how that is a very inccorect statement, unless you take the 'Everyone caused everything' appraoch.

And you seem to be ignoring any of our actual points, as no one has said Goku never caused anything. I had a whole list where I've listed the points that were his fault (Like the Androids and Zamasu).

[TekTheNinja]

Your complaint was that you were sick that Goku kept causing all the conflicts in Dragonball.

Exactly. (Well, in Z and Super. In Dragonball things weren't really his fault at all)

Give up, I made this comment pages ago and was immediately jumped on and given every reason in the book why Goku is NEVER the cause directly or indirectly of any of the problems he and the world experiences... even when he himself acknowledges this in universe but oh well.

But yes, Goku constantly being a direct or indirect cause of problems is soooooooo tired. The future Trunks saga is a perfect example of why Goku is SUCH an annoyance. Trunks not only defeated the androids and prevented Cell, but ALSO fought Dabura prevented Buu without messing around. Literally the ONLY reason Trunks future was completely wrecked in because Goku in ANOTHER freaking timeline fights some psycho who wants to mass murder people and decides to head to Trunks timeline. Trunks does crap the way it should've been handled and gets eternally punished for it, meanwhile Goku mere existence causes trouble and somehow he always experiences some kind of privilege for it. It was cute at first but now it's just plain annoying. I would just like Goku to no be the indirect or direct cause of something for once AND be forced to clean up the mess.. but no it's never Gokus fault.. this is not normal behavior and normalizing this indifference for consequences is a mistake and I really doubt was Toriyama original point of the character.

THANK YOU.

[Kanassa]

Your complaint was that you were sick that Goku kept causing all the conflicts in Dragonball.

Exactly. (Well, in Z and Super. In Dragonball things weren't really his fault at all)

So, you were saying they were his fault. And thus, we already proved why that was invalid. What did I get misconstrued? You're still making namekian-style reaches to blame Goku.