"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Guesswhoo]

I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore:

-Give 2nd and 3rd party character some shining moment ? ---> "They overstay their welcome", "Power level are bullshit, they should be one shotted", "where is Goku or Vegeta", "Goku or Vegeta should have One shot these enemies instead of wasting time of other character , another proof of DBS s*** writing",...

-Return the focus to Goku and Vegeta ? ---> " Here we go again, the Goku and Vegeta show !", "The reason why I hate DBS is because it doesn't give other character their time to shine", ...

-Making reference to the OG DB ? ---> "That is so unoriginal", "Those s** are just copy pasted on DBZ, so laaame", ...

There are many more to tell but my point is that a serie is destined to fail when its fan desperately want the serie to appeal to what they think DB is (Is it a just a show about dumb fighting or comedy gold or dumb transformation ?) or when they want it to be a modern anime with Dragon Ball name on it.

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".

[precita]

The series can only continue if they move to EOZ:

- Trunks, Goten, Pan and Uub as the new main heroes, along with maybe Bra and Marron. Gohan will also be their mentor

- Goku will take a backseat approach similar to the Buu arc, only stepping in when he has to. He'll be on a level above the Gods so no villain should be stronger than him.

- Series will take a next generation approach, Buu and Uub will meet and fuse, Trunks and Goten will make it to Super Saiyan 2 at least.

Goku/Vegeta will likely be retired to the bahamas and the young cast can take charge in the next series. Finally we'll get a continuation of the arc DBZ teased back in 1995....only 25+ years later.

[Totamo]

The series can only continue if they move to EOZ:

- Trunks, Goten, Pan and Uub as the new main heroes, along with maybe Bra and Marron. Gohan will also be their mentor

- Goku will take a backseat approach similar to the Buu arc, only stepping in when he has to. He'll be on a level above the Gods so no villain should be stronger than him.

- Series will take a next generation approach, Buu and Uub will meet and fuse, Trunks and Goten will make it to Super Saiyan 2 at least.

Goku/Vegeta will likely be retired to the bahamas and the young cast can take charge in the next series. Finally we'll get a continuation of the arc DBZ teased back in 1995....only 25+ years later.

You know thats not going to happen. Trunks and Goten have no intrest in fighting at the end of z plus the buu saga proved to Goku that thr next gen kind of suck.

[Totamo]

I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a new DB series any time soon. Especially in 2020 lmao.

Right because this one was planned so well and wasn't rushed to ride off the hype of the movie.


Do you really think tbey are going to learn from this?

[Ki Breaker]

Do you really think tbey are going to learn from this?

They might

[GamerSkull]

About the final conclusion, and the problem of "erased universes", i think we will simple have Zeno and the angels saying that the losers were transported back to their universes. Scenes like the angels searching for their universes, like we saw, would be part of the scheme. All done to satisfy the little Zenos as much as possible. It would be something like "characters who fight thinking they are fighting for their survival, fight better". The only truth in this tournament is that the winner gains a wish from the super dragon balls. I believe the revelation about the scheme could come before the winner makes the wish.

I wonder how well that would go over with the fans.

[sintzu]

Guys this series is ending, stop being in denial. There's a very small chance that we will ever see DB on TV again in the next 10 years.

DBS wasn't that good to begin with, so it's probably a good thing it's going off the air.

Why wouldn't we get another show ? If Toriyama wants to do it and it's making $$$, why would they stop ? If you had a business that was making lots of $$$ and you were still excited about doing it, would you close down ?

There are MANY issues with it in regards to its quality but financially it's a mega hit.

I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a new DB series any time soon. Especially in 2020 lmao.

Why not ?

I think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase.

There are fans who just hate for the fun of it but Super does have real issues and they NEED to be taken care of when a new show is back.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

How can people say DBS fails when it more or less breaks the internet everyweek? Also interest in the series wouldn't be high if it "failed" or people didn't care for it. Let's stop this nonesense. It's a success in all departments, DBS Part 3 came out this week already sold really well. RS were temporary out of stock for a short while too. It was #1 seller on Amazon only just dropped to second.

Also RoS Goku Black is currently best seller on AmazonJP under animation goods, came out Thursday.

[Hawk9211]

I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore:

-Give 2nd and 3rd party character some shining moment ? ---> "They overstay their welcome", "Power level are bullshit, they should be one shotted", "where is Goku or Vegeta", "Goku or Vegeta should have One shot these enemies instead of wasting time of other character , another proof of DBS s*** writing",...

Undeserved criticism?There are multiple plot devices in this series which can be used to give sensible power ups but instead trunks and vegeta remember their loved ones and get nakama power,piccolo and gohan randomly jump to insane levels,if goku and vegeta fight people that should be one shoted then they should be one shoted.

-Return the focus to Goku and Vegeta ? ---> " Here we go again, the Goku and Vegeta show !", "The reason why I hate DBS is because it doesn't give other character their time to shine", ...

Because they are in places we don't need them to be.

-Making reference to the OG DB ? ---> "That is so unoriginal", "Those s** are just copy pasted on DBZ, so laaame", ...

They are not making references instead they are putting plot points that were resolved earlier and expect to take that seriously.

There are many more to tell but my point is that a serie is destined to fail when its fan desperately want the serie to appeal to what they think DB is (Is it a just a show about dumb fighting or comedy gold or dumb transformation ?) or when they want it to be a modern anime with Dragon Ball name on it.

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".

It did not fail at all.While some people needlessly nit pick everything,it gets praise for it's high points.

[Dbzfan94]

How can people say DBS fails when it more or less breaks the internet everyweek? Also interest in the series wouldn't be high if it "failed" or people didn't care for it. Let's stop this nonesense. It's a success in all departments, DBS Part 3 came out this week already sold really well. RS were temporary out of stock for a short while too. It was #1 seller on Amazon only just dropped to second.

Also RoS Goku Black is currently best seller on AmazonJP under animation goods, came out Thursday.

Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in.

[Hawk9211]

Coincidence or not?Look at the rug.

[ArchedThunder]

Guys this series is ending, stop being in denial. There's a very small chance that we will ever see DB on TV again in the next 10 years. DBS served it's purpose. It created a bunch of new characters for it's video games. Maybe we get a movie once in a while, but I don't see them bringing DB back to TV anytime soon. And to be honest, DBS wasn't that good to begin with, so it's probably a good thing it's going off the air.

I HIGHLY doubt we're getting a new DB series any time soon. Especially in 2020 lmao.

There is literally zero reason to believe that the franchise is done on TV for the years to come and we have every reason to believe that they already have plans in the works to bring Dragon Ball back to TV.
I don't think you people realize just how much money Dragon Ball is making right now because it has a TV show on the air, in this day and age this is not the kind of success you just throw away. It's making double what One Piece does, it's surpassed Gundam, anyone with even a tiny bit of business knowledge could tell you by looking at this that Bandai, Toei and Shueisha aren't going to let this go to waste.

[Rebel Instinct]

I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore:

-Give 2nd and 3rd party character some shining moment ? ---> "They overstay their welcome", "Power level are bullshit, they should be one shotted", "where is Goku or Vegeta", "Goku or Vegeta should have One shot these enemies instead of wasting time of other character , another proof of DBS s*** writing",...

-Return the focus to Goku and Vegeta ? ---> " Here we go again, the Goku and Vegeta show !", "The reason why I hate DBS is because it doesn't give other character their time to shine", ...

-Making reference to the OG DB ? ---> "That is so unoriginal", "Those s** are just copy pasted on DBZ, so laaame", ...

There are many more to tell but my point is that a serie is destined to fail when its fan desperately want the serie to appeal to what they think DB is (Is it a just a show about dumb fighting or comedy gold or dumb transformation ?) or when they want it to be a modern anime with Dragon Ball name on it.

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".

Normally, I'm not the type to post cheap meme responses, but I couldn't help but be reminded of this one.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances ... -wrong.jpg

Why should people take DBS's writing at face value and accept its decisions in a vacuum? The most common complaints aren't really a case of fans wanting Super to live up to the standards set by modern anime either, it's largely the sense that it doesn't quite measure up to the standards set by its predecessors. The Dragon Ball series laid out a decades long foundation and Super was expected to maintain that foundation. The series may want to do its own thing, but it should still be beholden to the rules of it's predecessors unless it provides ample justification for diverging from them. Unless you intend to reboot a series entirely or otherwise go back to square one, you have to build off of what came before and not undermine the parameters set by its foundation. This is the concept of narrative consistency and it's a standard by which media is routinely judged.

This notion that a sequel should not be judged by the bar set by it's predecessors, but rather by what it attempts to do on its own, is flawed. Respecting what a series is attempting to do is one thing and taking a series in a fresh new direction can be a commendable choice, but when continuing off of a well established foundation (let alone one as iconic as Dragon Ball) with it's own rules, mechanics, sensibilities and balances, you have to respect that if you want to maintain its integrity going forward and any radical changes have to be given a solid in-universe reason for the shift in dynamic.

Not everyone wants the same thing or has the same expectations for what makes a series good - this is a given. The idea of an "unpleasable fanbase" is nonsense. A "fanbase" is not a singular entity that can be appeased. By definition, there is no media in existence that can please everybody. Someone will always be disappointed. What should be taken into consideration is the degree of discontent that arises from a decision and what that means for the series. Even if the discontent is not a majority, if it is large enough, then there's surely something amiss in one way or another. As the old adage goes, "There's no smoke without fire." The sheer sustained volume of criticism that Dragon Ball Super has received over its run is indicative of some severe underlying issues. Trying to shift the blame onto the fans themselves is disingenuous and gives Super too much leeway as a product.

Many of Super's biggest criticisms are universally shared by a large number of people and many who love the series as it is still acknowledge these shortcomings despite not being personally turned off by them. This should prove that it's not just people being unreasonable over nothing, it's a sign of legitimate problems with the series. GT is an example where the decisions made caused the community at large to turn against it. Should one disregard the issues people had with GT and instead blame them for not accepting it for what it tried to do? No. While more severe than the reaction to Super, obviously the series had some real problems that instigated the reception it got. I say this as someone who actually unironically enjoyed GT. Super has some glaring issues and outside of a handful of exaggerated claims and nitpicks, I feel like the criticism it has received thus far has been almost entirely deserved.

[jeffbr92]

The series can only continue if they move to EOZ

I agree, but would Toriyama bold enough to against he said before about not wanting to write a story after that because the cast was too old?

[emperior]

The series can only continue if they move to EOZ

I agree, but would Toriyama bold enough to against he said before about not wanting to write a story after that because the cast was too old?

I hope he is, and the fact Uub was finally mentioned in his outline gives me hope he has finally decided to go beyond EoZ. I really want it to happen because I want to see Goku as master, and I'm also interested in Uub, Goten, Trunks, Pan, Bra and even Marron. Going after EoZ would also mean we would finally get some real tension back as we would be stepping in completely uncharted territory.

[jeffbr92]

No new episode today?

[ArchedThunder]

EoZ would be great, but the idea that the series can "only continue if it goes to EoZ" is hilarious. Super returned Dragon Ball to being a juggernaut without touching EoZ, the series picking up right after the ToP would still be successful.

The series can only continue if they move to EOZ

I agree, but would Toriyama bold enough to against he said before about not wanting to write a story after that because the cast was too old?

The dude changes his mind all the time.
And besides, people take that out of context all the time, the context was for Battle of Gods specifically because that was a reunion movie, he wanted everyone to still be young looking because of that.

[Guesswhoo]

I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore:

-Give 2nd and 3rd party character some shining moment ? ---> "They overstay their welcome", "Power level are bullshit, they should be one shotted", "where is Goku or Vegeta", "Goku or Vegeta should have One shot these enemies instead of wasting time of other character , another proof of DBS s*** writing",...

-Return the focus to Goku and Vegeta ? ---> " Here we go again, the Goku and Vegeta show !", "The reason why I hate DBS is because it doesn't give other character their time to shine", ...

-Making reference to the OG DB ? ---> "That is so unoriginal", "Those s** are just copy pasted on DBZ, so laaame", ...

There are many more to tell but my point is that a serie is destined to fail when its fan desperately want the serie to appeal to what they think DB is (Is it a just a show about dumb fighting or comedy gold or dumb transformation ?) or when they want it to be a modern anime with Dragon Ball name on it.

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".

Normally, I'm not the type to post cheap meme responses, but I couldn't help but be reminded of this one.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances ... -wrong.jpg

Why should people take DBS's writing at face value and accept its decisions in a vacuum? The most common complaints aren't really a case of fans wanting Super to live up to the standards set by modern anime either, it's largely the sense that it doesn't quite measure up to the standards set by its predecessors. The Dragon Ball series laid out a decades long foundation and Super was expected to maintain that foundation. The series may want to do its own thing, but it should still be beholden to the rules of it's predecessors unless it provides ample justification for diverging from them. Unless you intend to reboot a series entirely or otherwise go back to square one, you have to build off of what came before and not undermine the parameters set by its foundation. This is the concept of narrative consistency and it's a standard by which media is routinely judged.

This notion that a sequel should not be judged by the bar set by it's predecessors, but rather by what it attempts to do on its own, is flawed. Respecting what a series is attempting to do is one thing and taking a series in a fresh new direction can be a commendable choice, but when continuing off of a well established foundation (let alone one as iconic as Dragon Ball) with it's own rules, mechanics, sensibilities and balances, you have to respect that if you want to maintain its integrity going forward and any radical changes have to be given a solid in-universe reason for the shift in dynamic.

Not everyone wants the same thing or has the same expectations for what makes a series good - this is a given. The idea of an "unpleasable fanbase" is nonsense. A "fanbase" is not a singular entity that can be appeased. By definition, there is no media in existence that can please everybody. Someone will always be disappointed. What should be taken into consideration is the degree of discontent that arises from a decision and what that means for the series. Even if the discontent is not a majority, if it is large enough, then there's surely something amiss in one way or another. As the old adage goes, "There's no smoke without fire." The sheer sustained volume of criticism that Dragon Ball Super has received over its run is indicative of some severe underlying issues. Trying to shift the blame onto the fans themselves is disingenuous and gives Super too much leeway as a product.

Many of Super's biggest criticisms are universally shared by a large number of people and many who love the series as it is still acknowledge these shortcomings despite not being personally turned off by them. This should prove that it's not just people being unreasonable over nothing, it's a sign of legitimate problems with the series. GT is an example where the decisions made caused the community at large to turn against it. Should one disregard the issues people had with GT and instead blame them for not accepting it for what it tried to do? No. While more severe than the reaction to Super, obviously the series had some real problems that instigated the reception it got. I say this as someone who actually unironically enjoyed GT. Super has some glaring issues and outside of a handful of exaggerated claims and nitpicks, I feel like the criticism it has received thus far has been almost entirely deserved.

I will agree on everything you said except on one thing: YES, "unpleasable fanbase" truly exist = when the fanbase become a broken one and each of the piece gets a non negligible part of support. If one would watch carefully, THAT is actually the case with the DB fandom with all of its fanboism on specific character or group of character that seems to greatly alter their point regarding the quality of the show (as much as it can alter the show in itself, just look at Naruto with the Uchiha). Yet, when we hold on to those practice, we still want the show to retain its consistency, it can work in over shonen with different power system but not in DB where Power level is EVERYTHING when it comes to relevancy of the character (heck, power level discussion is one the most active thread on this forum). And as you know it, character is greatly related to the story.
Add to this the fact that DB franchise little remaining respect on the big part of the anime fandom and mainstream in general ( from what I know) comes mainly from its over-the-top action, power level and badass power, we are in a dead-end.
What does that mean?

-Maintaining in universe consistency and staying with the current dynamic of Goku and Vegeta? ---> THE BEST OPTION (mainstream audience is the majority here) BUT ... It will bring the flame of other character fan (which is non negligible), this can affect the show in a long run which is the apparent objective (this is why I see DBS ending as a necessity).

-Making exception for the 2nd and 3rd party cast and give them a Power UP for them to shine? ---> EVEN WORSE because it may appease those who want to see them (which is highly unlikely) but the mainstream viewer will likely be thrown off by this decision, and it is risking to break an established dynamic in an already rushed production, what will we do with them ?

-Explaining the Power up for those 2nd and 3rd party? ---> NOPE, first, we are already in a rushed production and second, bringing explanation to a Power Up that will necessarily go nowhere (because we still have Goku and Vegeta dynamic which the mainstream viewer is used to and want to stick to) will not only bring the flame of the 2nd to 3rd party character fan (which is non negligible remember) but will overall be another stigma till the end of the franchise itself since the 2 MC will leave them into the dust once again, bringing a forgettable power boost incosistency is better if the 2 MC will ultimately be, a lot more powerful in the end.

-Using those character without giving them a Power up and making them last an entire episode or some part of the episode? --->2nd CASE CAN WORK BUT... the margin of it actually working is very small ( ratio problem) and if it does work, we can't use this every episode without high risk of redundacy but we can't pull this off mainly because WE ARE IN A RUSHED PRODUCTION DAMN IT ! First case (ie making them last entire episode), is just impossible, we can't risk to lose the mainstream viewer and it can bring OTHER INCOSISTENCY (why can't Goku One Shot for example).

-What is ultimately the best option to go for? ---> Focusing on Goku and Vegeta while giving forgettable power boost incosistency to the character, pulling off the last proposition from time to time to appease the 2nd to 3rd party character fan (which proved to be useless in the end) BUT... you forgot one little detail: BLATANT INCOSISTENCY, LIKE POWER LEVEL, WILL GETS YOU WASTED BY A NON NEGLIGIBLE ( this term is used a lot, sorry ) PART OF FANBASE who will inevitably pull the "non MC character fan" into the War.

(Sigh) Guys... let’s just focus on the Mainstream viewer, let’s go FULL FAN SERVICE MODE: bring in Broly, new overpowered character, God of destruction, Fusion, new transformation, badass scene, “Ladies and Gentleman, I present you the ToP arc” ... BUT... each of the "non MC character" fan, "Consistency" fan is a big part of the fanbase (although not majority, I guess ?) , they will inevitably pull in mainstream viewer avide of the sweet sweet “insightful critics” of their occasional hobby on internet, even if they won’t be truly critical about it (it is “occasional” after all).

It is unlikely that the producer had that (sort of) “internal monologue –like” thing going on but it doesn’t matter because this mainly speaks to the fanbase in general. A fanbase isn’t one entity but it sure would help a lot coming to term with certain dissonance within it. We are many fanbase inside a franchise fanbase, each fan is loyal to the fanbase they are in and that is why we are in a DEAD END. Dragon Ball isn’t one thing, it is many things to many people, and those people want different things that fight with others. THAT is the “Unpleasable fanbase”, it is not one unpleasable entity known as DB community, it is many entity that likes DB for many different reason but still come under one name: the DB COMMUNITY.

[Liquir]

No new episode today?

No episode this week.Tokyo Marathon is being broadcast on FujiTV.
https://twitter.com/Terez27/status/954370550016638977
Only possibility is we get week-long Preview Images like we did with Episode 122, tho with uncertainty of it happening.

[alakazam^]

Even if the discontent is not a majority, if it is large enough, then there's surely something amiss in one way or another. As the old adage goes, "There's no smoke without fire." The sheer sustained volume of criticism that Dragon Ball Super has received over its run is indicative of some severe underlying issues. Trying to shift the blame onto the fans themselves is disingenuous and gives Super too much leeway as a product.

You said that there's no pleasing everyone and then you say that if a minority is complaining, that should be addressed? This sounds really biased against Super. Super isn't a bad product by default, no matter what people might try to make you believe. It has issues just like everything else (and the past series, of course) but the evidence we have is that the majority is pleased with it, not the contrary.

The "sheer sustained volume of criticism" comes from just some fans, a vocal minority. Why should their opinion have any weight if most of them show they aren't even critically thinking about what they are complaining? The majority of complaints come from fans being ignorant about how an anime is put together, misunderstandings (from what the show is telling them, synopses, etc), knee-jerk reactions and just poor reasoning all around. So yes, the fans are responsible by how they conduct themselves and it just seems there are many of them complaining because that minority keeps parroting eachother over and over again.

The anime is aimed at children but I didn't think the adult fanbase would play the part so seriously.