"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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darzap
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by darzap » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:34 pm

OverHeaven wrote:Tbh if it wasn't for the "new form" line that Gohan had mentioned, I think people wouldn't be half upset about his elimination. He actually did pretty well if you ignore these stupid foreshadowings and useless build-ups that lead to nowhere. Maybe it'd have been much better if they went straight to the tournament without them.

I'm actually more curious to see people's reactions when Frieza gets humiliated or eliminated without going anywhere with his "plans".
I think this really highlights the big flaws in the writing. There seems to be very little foresight and very little discipline. I'm not talking about "Why didn't ABC from two sagas later get involved into XYZ"- or "the officially stated multipliers don't add up"-level flaws, even though, those annoy me as well. I'm talking about stuff, like: Why does Dyspo seem so threatened by SSG Goku/Hit/Maji Kayo/Final Freeza standing on a hill shooting death beams, when he shows a few episodes later, that he can activate a speed mode at will, that is so fast, that it forces Golden Freeza + Ultimate Gohan into desperate measures? How can Gohan get back into shape in a matter of days and give this foreshadowing that leads nowhere? What's up with those spoilers that amount to nothing but throw-away lines? What's up with the awe displayed in the presence of transformations that have literally been seen like three in-universe minutes ago?

In my opinion, this is just laziness and here is my formula to interpret and assess these tendencies:
- every episode needs some tension, some drama or something that makes people want more episode
- we have some points, that we want to convey with whatever tool we happen to have at hand
- we don't want to actually do the work of planning this stuff out, so we can do it in a fashion that makes sense

Examples of those principles in action:
- Let's do a kick-ass recruitment arc, so what drama/conflict could we have here? People don't want to enter. Why wouldn't one of the 13 strongest known beings in his universe (Whis, Beerus, and Shin may not enter), like #17, not want to enter a tournament that is about protecting everything he lives for? This makes no sense at all, so I guess we just make all characters, that refuse to enter at first, total nihilists, even though they are all clearly investing their time in some earthly project.
- We want people to care about 10 fighters and end recruitment episodes on a high point, even though just 3 of them got significant attention recently, so what do we do? Let's give some of them total surprise powerups (sure, #17 improved orders of magnitude fighting poachers) and some foreshadowing, like Gohan will reach a form nobody has ever seen before, or #17 might or might not be on SSB level, or whatever, during recruitment (btw., #17 is great, just give a better explanation for his power-up, like him fearing the advent of another monster like Cell and wanting to protect nature, therefore he trains hard every day or sth. like that). Their fans interpret that as build-up and foreshadowing and expect a big payoff for those characters and expect little of Vegeta, but it was probably just done to have strong endings for the Gohan-recruitment episode or the #17-recruitment episode.
- We want the Ribrianne attack to be a joke or minor annoyance this time? Ok, a base Saiyan can handle it. Little more tension? Ok, we need Super Saiyan. We want some super-hype moment? Ok, time for 2 SSBs,1 Golden Freeza, 1 Gohan and 1 super-crit, delivered by #17. I doubt there is much of a plan regarding the strength of most of the characters in the ToP, they just have whatever strength they need to serve their purpose and generate the desired level of tension during that specific episode and it may very well change dramatically a few episodes later.
- We want to hype people for episodes? Let's spoil some drama or twist that doesn't exist in the spoilers.

It's not all bad and I focused on the bad stuff here. They seem to have a rough outline and many concepts are really cool. It's just the cheap sensationalism they often put into single episodes, that are definitely just meant to spice up the specific episodes but make no sense in the overall context and lead people to weird discussions about throw-away lines (that shouldn't be said at all if they won't mean anything). I didn't expect grandiose things from Gohan, but I understood where those people were coming from, Toei lead them astray. The last thing, that had me worried/puzzled was that thing about Beerus proposing to wish for the annihilation of all in ep. 29 minute 17-18 accompanied by creepy music and a scary smirk. Of course, nothing came of that either.

I wish they'd make a somewhat detailed plan in advance, so they can have some consistency and drop foreshadowing, that is meaningful. During his last fight, Gohan had to work together with Freeza and go out, leaving Freeza, who can't be trusted, in. Freeza killed his two best friends, was responsible for almost all of the pain, Gohan suffered on Namek (as a child) and Freeza getting a SDB-wish could be disastrous. There is a perfect recipe for character conflicts right there. Don't foreshadow going getting an unseen ultimate form, if you have no plans to do that, foreshadow him doing whatever strategic move necessary to win and let that overcome his distrust for Freeza. Perfect character-moment, no empty promises in advance.

This would make the discussions on the forums much more fun as well. You know what's the most discouraging result of a discussion on whether hint X means A, B or C is? If hint X turns out to mean nothing at all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:37 pm

I'm over Gohan losing, but I think he still should have done more.

Gohan is the chosen one. He's the poster boy and self-insert character for the audience to vicariously live through. In the west where most fans started with DBZ over Dragonball, many fans feel like they "grew up with" Gohan over the course of the series. It's probably why Gohan has such a huge fanbase in the west because many started with DBZ.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:38 pm

DasMuse wrote: I mirror your frustration. I've had a cloud over me since I first started reading about this and it feels like I was just given the news that my best friend has 2 months to live...
Jesus christ, how little do you think of your friend?
Ki Breaker wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Not this 17 thing again, jeez..
Here, have this new ship and talk about it if a discussion just has to happen
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
What ship? Which combination are you talking about here?

Piccolox18? 18xGohan? ShinxGohan? BeerusxGohan? Multishipping?

You must elaborate.
So many possibilities!
But here's the thing, 18 sticks to Piccolo for a reason ya know and it's not because she is cold, that pride she has in her eyes while looking at Gohan while she sits cozy with Piccolo..
Yeah..
That's my new ship and it's equipped with Cannons and shit
I am ashamed that I cannot find one fanfiction about this pairing. THE SHIPPING COMMUNITY HAS FAILED US!
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When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Brettjr25 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:05 pm

Hiatus?

Is there more news that I missed out there? It seems a lot of fans are calling the end of Super a hiatus but hiatus implies a planned pause, a brief stop but the translation from this site, Kanzenshuu states, "Currently it is undecided so there is nothing I can tell you, but when something is decided we will put out a press release." when asked about a sequel, meaning nothing else is in works and they're not planning anything. That's not a hiatus. Heck, even the movie isn't about the Super era just a prequel movie about a different Saiyan.

So did I miss anything?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:11 pm

We don't know what the movie really is going to be about. People are up for a surprise, as I can't see it being a prequel.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:22 pm

Brettjr25 wrote:Hiatus?

Is there more news that I missed out there? It seems a lot of fans are calling the end of Super a hiatus but hiatus implies a planned pause, a brief stop but the translation from this site, Kanzenshuu states, "Currently it is undecided so there is nothing I can tell you, but when something is decided we will put out a press release." when asked about a sequel, meaning nothing else is in works and they're not planning anything. That's not a hiatus. Heck, even the movie isn't about the Super era just a prequel movie about a different Saiyan.

So did I miss anything?
Super is over. No one important said it's a hiatus. Fuji TV did say that they are undecided about the sequel, so that's the only info we've got. This just means that Dragon Ball could return in a series format, but it won't be called Super. I am 99,9% sure about it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:31 pm

IM21 wrote:
Brettjr25 wrote:Hiatus?

Is there more news that I missed out there? It seems a lot of fans are calling the end of Super a hiatus but hiatus implies a planned pause, a brief stop but the translation from this site, Kanzenshuu states, "Currently it is undecided so there is nothing I can tell you, but when something is decided we will put out a press release." when asked about a sequel, meaning nothing else is in works and they're not planning anything. That's not a hiatus. Heck, even the movie isn't about the Super era just a prequel movie about a different Saiyan.

So did I miss anything?
Super is over. No one important said it's a hiatus. Fuji TV did say that they are undecided about the sequel, so that's the only info we've got. This just means that Dragon Ball could return in a series format, but it won't be called Super. I am 99,9% sure about it.
Yes. Super is indeed ending, and they currently have no plans on whats next. So the most we can hope is that a new series picks up wherr super left.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:46 pm

darzap wrote:
OverHeaven wrote:I think this really highlights the big flaws in the writing. There seems to be very little foresight and very little discipline.

- We want the Ribrianne attack to be a joke or minor annoyance this time?
I Agree, We Needed to have more Discipline in the writers offices on keeping a cohesiveness story going that at the very least stayed on points with 1.) The Characters they Hyped Fully being Shown in All their Glory both in words and in visuals & 2.) We do this by making the characters go Farther and having New and Powerful forms that show evolution instead of re-using Giant and already done forms.

But we don't creep down the Goddess of Universe 2 as just being a Minor, Toei Shows what they Promised with their promotions like they start well in episodes 102-103 that she is a force to be Witnessed, but then got lost embarrassingly after that with no reason given either story-wise or from the offices. :problem:

Lets makes sure that while Super in reality did tell a Story of Ribrianne's development that was decent ~~~ Being the Hero and Goddess of her Universe, Learning New forms of Love, Realizing the Weight of the Situation with what it means to lose, give her own powers to the last remaining fighters and constant support in keeping up the spirts of her Universe 2 that was watching nearly every min. of her and the U2 warriors and Supporting them and if they loss faith they loos allot of their powers to survive and they be letting down their people the believe in them. These and More where good story points, but Toei needed to be consistent with the showing of her strength and it was not.

Let is be her Powers are shown constantly as Mighty and the Fact that while you TELL use in Episode 108-109 well that they are mighty, it be also GOOD to honestly show it by having Fighters like Goku and Vegeta being in SSJ Forms to show that instead of the Confusing Love affair Toei seemed to have with Base form to many times in this series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdwDVOXzLl4

Also Her attacks and attitude can be funny, their is nothing wrong with that. DB is build on not just their battles but their awkward humor and out of the blue moments of slapstick and shock moments.

The Writers just needed to keep their promise of showing this with Ribrianne instead of getting lost in why they never showed it with her foes in Higher level forms or why a power down creep on her was put into effect without any reasoning given.

That be a nice start. :idea: :think:
--- ADMIN NOTE: THIS SIGNATURE IS FAR TOO LONG. PLEASE REDUCE IN SIZE. ---
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”:clap:
Brianne De Chateau/Ribrianne!
My #1 in DB!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:02 pm

HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote: Gohan receiving such a large boost was NOT the pay off for his large hype but a REASON for his large hype and look where it led?

Plenty of fans are pissed and they wouldn't be if the hype was so high, which i told you would happen.
It was along with him getting the most scene time next to Goku, took out the final fighters for two universes, and was a key member of taking out one of U11's big three.

Gohan not living to the 'hype' is really just fans wanting the moon and nothing short of Gohan winning the whole thing or being a key member fighting Jiren.
Like I said, every Gohan fan who is disappointed that I have talked to, all told me the same thing. They felt they were promised more than what they got and I agree with them.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:05 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
It is part of his reason. He mentioned it before. It's been apart of his entire arc in Super. We've seen it as early as the ROF arc. His family is the other reason, which he thinks of far more than Vegeta who mentions quite often he's out to merely be the best. Which was stated numerous times.

He's doing it out of necessity and to make up for his past failures. He took his growth very seriously as he was not going to do the same crap he pulled before. Which is way more than Vegeta who prattled on about winning the tournament to be the best more than anything else.

This does not show the evolution of those 2. It's nothing but power level nonsense. It does not show anything about that. He had no need for a new form at all. Especially when it's going to quickly be pushed right out once Ultra Instinct comes back as SSBKK means jack shit to Jiren, so that in turn means Vegeta's power up means jack shit as well. Not to mention he doesn't need to match Goku for any reason other than people want that. His power up is just as forced and thrown in as Future Trunks, except Trunks had a more satisfying reason to get one. So much so a lot of people are really upset the manga didn't give it to him.

Freeza has more story development going for him than Vegeta. He trained in a unique way that managed to skyrocket his abilities. He is completely cocky and so sure of himself despite supposedly being heavily outcast. And this is Freeza, the guy who hates when anyone is more powerful than him, and commonly freaks out when it happens. Yet now he doesn't seem bothered. If everything was merely about who trains hard, then Beerus wouldn't be much as he hardly ever trains and prefers to eat more than anything. Not to mention training hard had nothing to do with either transformation in this story arc. It was being pushed into a corner, something literally anyone can be in said situation. Not to mention despite how horribly written and handled it was for Gohan to get that powerful in like a day, that alone like Freeza is a pretty ginormous feat. Not to mention it all comes from his potential alone as his state is not a form, but his raw unlocked potential. So an actual transformation would probably be even more insane.
Why are you using the previous sagas as an argument?
If that's the case, then I can also bring Vegeta scenes thinking about his family, especially in Future Trunks saga.

I'm talking about the tournament. In the tournament, Gohan is never shown thinking about his family, and this does not mean that this is not one of his motivations.
It makes no sense to criticize Vegeta saying that in the tournament he does not think about his family when Gohan does the same.
And stop trying to lessen Vegeta's motivations to exalt those of Gohan. The two fight basically for the same thing, the difference is that Vegeta is also struggling to get a promise fulfilled (not just being the strongest). You quote things from Gohan that were not even explicit

Goku was abysmally stronger than Vegeta, with Kaioken and UI.
It was necessary that this difference of powers diminished, and that was one of the reasons for Vegeta to obtain its new form (it is also the same reason for Trunks to receive in the saga Black).
And even the SSJ Rage of Trunks was practically useless. All he managed was to hold Black and Zamasu on EP 62. But in a direct fight he even managed to scratch Black. When he defeats Merged Zamasu, he still uses the energy of everyone on Earth with his '' Genki Sword '', the reason is not even the SSJ Rage. So I do not know why to complain about the new Vegeta form that serves so much to match him to Goku, as to face Jiren in a decent way.

And Jiren is increasing his power, but even so, Goku and Vegeta can resist. It would be strange and forced if both of them did this with just the SSB.

Amount of training really does not mean everything, but why "development and hype in a saga" mean that this character must have to receive a new transformation? This does not mean that this character deserves it.
But it is very strange that a character who is years out of the struggles, without training, simply out of nothing get a new transformation and outdo everyone. That would be forced, and that's why it's much more plausible that Vegeta gets, since he's always training and looking
Because the previous saga's are basically part of his build up. They hit the same beats. I never said Vegeta didn't care about his family. I said it was far less a priority in the story. You catch him saying more that he cares about being number 1 and winning the tournament than anything else.

Because family is a central part of his character, moreso than Vegeta. It is not a central part of his character. He does not strive to get stronger to protect them. He does for the same reason that Goku does. Vegeta does not train and fight to protect others. He does it because he enjoys it. Goku also fights for his family too let's be real here, it's not like he doesn't want to protect them. It's just lower on his reason for fighting and training, as is with Vegeta. Gohan fights solely to protect. Vegeta does mainly to improve himself like Goku.

And what's wrong with that? And why is it necessary to have the power gap to be diminished? Especially when the new form means jack shit to Jiren, so all it basically does is close on gap while there's yet another large one in the way anyways. How was this transformation a culmination of Vegeta as a character or in his story arc? It's not. It's not at all built up well. It's not at all any sort of new unexplored area Vegeta has discovered. He just got it by mutually doing what he always does.

For Trunks it served as a culimation of his struggles and helplessness. How he basically just got in the way more or less as only Goku and Vegeta could do anything. It was a reward for all the horrible shit he went through. For Vegeta it's just something that will make no difference. For Trunks it did make a difference. It made a him from a useless liability into someone who could actually help.

It's very strange a character who has no real tie to the story, has no real build up, is given a completely useless form that really is only there to be cool and not serve the story. How does it change anything? How does it change the landscape of the story? It doesn't. It's a form that has no reason to exist. The moment Ultra Instinct comes back, it's basically useless. Jiren already can crush SSJBKK level. So he can crush this form when he wants to. So it's literally of no consequence.

If training was literally what mattered, then Tenshinhan and Piccolo who practically do nothing but that would surely be far more powerful than they are, but they are not. Neither of them have anything of the sort.

Here's a good quote.
Kataphrut wrote:I think when we talk about what "deserves" a new transformation, we should consider more than just raw training time. Because training is one of those things that's used more for convenience than anything else in Dragon Ball, it's just an assumed state of the characters unless otherwise noted. Piccolo and Tenshinhan are established as training regularly, but we don't expect big powerups from them these days because they haven't been given a reason to develop as characters.

Transformations/powerups in Dragon Ball are ideally one of two things:

A) Culmination of a character arc.
B) A game-changer in the story.

At their best they can be both, that's why Gohan into SSJ2 against Cell was such an amazing moment. The problem with Vegeta's new form is that it fulfilled neither. It made a token effort to be "about" something, but Vegeta's had no growth throughout the Tournament and his relationship with Cabba was so under-developed that it fell flat. And it certainly isn't a game-changer. Ultra Instinct, aside from being well-executed in general, changed the entire dynamic of the tournament. It was immediately apparent just from watching that *this* was the only thing that can possibly beat Jiren. Super Saiyan Whoop-de-Blue doesn't for a second look like it can do that. Maybe it'll beat Toppo's new powerup, but that hasn't happened yet and isn't what triggered the transformation, so it'll basically just be coming up with a solution before the problem.
What about this new form is a culmination of his character or a game changer? Nothing. Do you honestly believe for a second it's going to make any bit of a difference against Jiren when we all know Ultra Instinct is the only thing that can. Jiren is completely unhurt or scratched by anything they do to him. At best Vegeta's new form might beat Toppo's new power up, which may be all it ever has going for it. It has no reason to exist other than the desire for wanting Vegeta to be closer to Goku. And don't pull the same thing for Gohan. I'd have no complaints if the manga is more subdue in comparison as it doesn't really promise anything.

Does the new form enhance Vegeta's character in any way? Nope. Does it further a character arc for him in a satisfying and organic way even a little bit? Nope. Does it have any effect on the tournament? Maybe. Does it really even need to contend with Jiren? Not really. Does Vegeta have to even fight Jiren? Not really. Did Gohan have to fight Jiren? Not really. Would a new form have served his character arc? Sure. Does it have to one shot everyone like people complain about? No not at all.

A new form serves nothing for Vegeta. Outside of novelty of "Oh lookie he's closer to Goku yet still heavily inferior to his new max power".
When super saiyan 3 and super saiyan grade 3 exist in this franchise, you kind of lose the argument of transformations having to matter and Krillin;'s powerup on namek as well.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:10 pm

Totamo wrote:When super saiyan 3 and super saiyan grade 3 exist in this franchise, you kind of lose the argument of transformations having to matter and Krillin;'s powerup on namek as well.
So because there's a few different cases none of them good, that changes everything? Though really that's why none of them were satisfying in anyway, as well as didn't accomplish anything either. I know not every power up/transformation ever follows suit, but the ones that actually feel worthwhile do. Otherwise it's just math statistics and power levels clashing, and commonly nothing comes of it.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:14 pm

Totamo wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote: What about this new form is a culmination of his character or a game changer? Nothing. Do you honestly believe for a second it's going to make any bit of a difference against Jiren when we all know Ultra Instinct is the only thing that can. Jiren is completely unhurt or scratched by anything they do to him. At best Vegeta's new form might beat Toppo's new power up, which may be all it ever has going for it. It has no reason to exist other than the desire for wanting Vegeta to be closer to Goku. And don't pull the same thing for Gohan. I'd have no complaints if the manga is more subdue in comparison as it doesn't really promise anything.

Does the new form enhance Vegeta's character in any way? Nope. Does it further a character arc for him in a satisfying and organic way even a little bit? Nope. Does it have any effect on the tournament? Maybe. Does it really even need to contend with Jiren? Not really. Does Vegeta have to even fight Jiren? Not really. Did Gohan have to fight Jiren? Not really. Would a new form have served his character arc? Sure. Does it have to one shot everyone like people complain about? No not at all.

A new form serves nothing for Vegeta. Outside of novelty of "Oh lookie he's closer to Goku yet still heavily inferior to his new max power".
When super saiyan 3 and super saiyan grade 3 exist in this franchise, you kind of lose the argument of transformations having to matter and Krillin;'s powerup on namek as well.
Since you quoted me on this before, I should probably just say that when I was talking about transformations being game-changers and/or character-development moments, I was in fact talking about what makes a GOOD transformation. Super Saiyan 3 was not a good transformation. It came out of nowhere and accomplished nothing. It's cool, but that's all it is.

Krillin's powerup on Namek barely even counts. I'm talking specifically about big transformations that are presented as dramatic moments. Goku going SSJ1, Gohan SSJ2, Majin Vegeta, Super Saiyan God, Ultra Instinct. Those are, in my opinion, the standard of a good transformation. Super Saiyan 3, Buu saga Mystic Gohan and Vegeta's new form are all presented in similar ways, but fail at paying off the drama.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Araki » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Totamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Totamo wrote: Gohan receiving such a large boost was NOT the pay off for his large hype but a REASON for his large hype and look where it led?

Plenty of fans are pissed and they wouldn't be if the hype was so high, which i told you would happen.
It was along with him getting the most scene time next to Goku, took out the final fighters for two universes, and was a key member of taking out one of U11's big three.

Gohan not living to the 'hype' is really just fans wanting the moon and nothing short of Gohan winning the whole thing or being a key member fighting Jiren.
Like I said, every Gohan fan who is disappointed that I have talked to, all told me the same thing. They felt they were promised more than what they got and I agree with them.
It's not the series' fault if people's imaginations come up with Blanco Gohan or whatever other shit they can think of.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:46 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Totamo wrote:When super saiyan 3 and super saiyan grade 3 exist in this franchise, you kind of lose the argument of transformations having to matter and Krillin;'s powerup on namek as well.
So because there's a few different cases none of them good, that changes everything? Though really that's why none of them were satisfying in anyway, as well as didn't accomplish anything either. I know not every power up/transformation ever follows suit, but the ones that actually feel worthwhile do. Otherwise it's just math statistics and power levels clashing, and commonly nothing comes of it.
You mean like fusion that thing that is combination of both but has never actually won, but fans love it so much, they made a game out of it?


Yeah, powerups and transformations definitely have to be gamechamgers and top character arcs even the ones that didn't.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:56 pm

Totamo wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Totamo wrote:When super saiyan 3 and super saiyan grade 3 exist in this franchise, you kind of lose the argument of transformations having to matter and Krillin;'s powerup on namek as well.
So because there's a few different cases none of them good, that changes everything? Though really that's why none of them were satisfying in anyway, as well as didn't accomplish anything either. I know not every power up/transformation ever follows suit, but the ones that actually feel worthwhile do. Otherwise it's just math statistics and power levels clashing, and commonly nothing comes of it.
You mean like fusion that thing that is combination of both but has never actually won, but fans love it so much, they made a game out of it?


Yeah, powerups and transformations definitely have to be gamechamgers and top character arcs even the ones that didn't.
Where are you getting this have to be crap? If they want to be good they do. Otherwise they just come off as yet another power up. There's a big reason why the most memorable power ups, were the culmination of characters, and not the ones that are just handed out. Some are remembered for spectacle, but the ones remembered as the most important were the ones that had to do with the characters.

If power ups were as meaningless as just something to throw around, then you might as well have Dragon Ball Heroes be the actual series as they fart out those power ups/transformations all the time. It's funny how that gets labelled as fanservice crap which is a bad thing, but then in series fan service crap is fine. The entire sequence seems like it belongs in a Dragon Ball Heroes trailer.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:17 pm

Man, I'm really want to know more about this 'Hakaishin' Toppo form, I mean when he was present in the Zen-Oh Exhibition Matches, it was implied he wanted to become a God too, but why him and not Jiren? Did Jiren refused being a Hakaishin someday? :think:

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Lapislettuce wrote:More proof that Gohan fanboys are salty, greedy and never happy xD honestly i LOVE karma so much ! <3
Coming from the guy who attacks anyone who says something bad about 17.
My thoughts exactly, his opinions are always biased towards 17, we shouldn't take him seriously anymore.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:31 pm

Xeogran wrote:We don't know what the movie really is going to be about. People are up for a surprise, as I can't see it being a prequel.
I really can't see them not using Goku and Co. as the focus of a big theatrical movie, especially one they're working on for a year. A TV special maybe, but not a movie, and even less so with the show ending.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by shadowmaria » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:37 pm

What if Jiren is eliminated next episode, and that's why Toppo transforms / gains God ki / becomes a God of Destruction / uses his actual power - because Vermoud gets desperate in Jiren's defeat?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:44 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Totamo wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
So because there's a few different cases none of them good, that changes everything? Though really that's why none of them were satisfying in anyway, as well as didn't accomplish anything either. I know not every power up/transformation ever follows suit, but the ones that actually feel worthwhile do. Otherwise it's just math statistics and power levels clashing, and commonly nothing comes of it.
You mean like fusion that thing that is combination of both but has never actually won, but fans love it so much, they made a game out of it?


Yeah, powerups and transformations definitely have to be gamechamgers and top character arcs even the ones that didn't.
Where are you getting this have to be crap? If they want to be good they do. Otherwise they just come off as yet another power up. There's a big reason why the most memorable power ups, were the culmination of characters, and not the ones that are just handed out. Some are remembered for spectacle, but the ones remembered as the most important were the ones that had to do with the characters.

If power ups were as meaningless as just something to throw around, then you might as well have Dragon Ball Heroes be the actual series as they fart out those power ups/transformations all the time. It's funny how that gets labelled as fanservice crap which is a bad thing, but then in series fan service crap is fine. The entire sequence seems like it belongs in a Dragon Ball Heroes trailer.
You keep saying this when super saiyan 3 exists and it was memorable. Ask any dragon ball fan and they remember that transformation and it had noting to do with your factors.

It was memorable for the sheer fact that Goku shook the planet and it took 5 minutes in real time.


Vegeta's transformation will be memorable for 2 reasons: it's the first one he achieved onscreen since super saiyan and its vegeta exclusive.



Should forms be like what you said, sure> But they don't have to in order to be memorable which is really all they need to be at this point. Afterall, its basic marketing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GamerSkull » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:45 pm

shadowmaria wrote:What if Jiren is eliminated next episode, and that's why Toppo transforms / gains God ki / becomes a God of Destruction / uses his actual power - because Vermoud gets desperate in Jiren's defeat?
So you're saying Toppo will be the final opponent and not Jiren?

Regardless, that would be interesting? :think:
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