"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Michsi]

Tien is another character that got the short end, but he has been more or less put on the bench since the saiyan arc. He's also owner of a school, so he has that to focus on. Still he think he deserves more, but if we're also taking popularity and iconic presence into account, than I'd dare to say Tien doesn't hold a candle to Piccolo.

As far as personality for U6 Namekians goes, we have yet to see what they'll do with them. One episode is enough to completely change the perception towards a character, it just has to be used effectively. I for one have enjoyed the short skirmishes we've seen them in. Also, I'm still waiting for them to put Saonel's somewhat more known VA to good use, otherwise I don't understand why they'd go out of their way to hire him. I know he has a similar timbre to that of Piccolo's VA and maybe they wanted to go full on clone version with him, but still.

Owning a school would give you more reason to train and stay in shape since you're teaching others your craft. At least it did for my teachers. And we were talking about people who kept training so Piccolo deserved a power-up. I just wanted to point out that the same can easily apply to Tien, who got outshine by people coming out of retirement.

The bit about deserving was only a part of it, I generally take a multifaceted approach to a character - in-universe as well as out-of-universe reasons. And I mentioned deserving only because some fans main reason to be actively against him getting a significant power-up is because he apparently doesn't deserve it, which I think is unjustified.

[HeroR]

The bit about deserving was only a part of it, I generally take a multifaceted approach to a character - in-universe as well as out-of-universe reasons. And I mentioned deserving only because some fans main reason to be actively against him getting a significant power-up is because he apparently doesn't deserve it, which I think is unjustified.

I more or less agree and always say that no character 'deserves' anything. I just decided to used deserved in the context of your statement.

[Michsi]

Wasn't going to continue the discussion but then I realized I somehow missed this post

There have been other Dragon Ball stuff before Super. We had the 2008 special which brought the cast back, which focused heavily on the Saiyans. We then got EOB which was about Super Saiyan Bardock. We then got an OVA of Destroy all Saiyans. We finally got Battle of Gods, both the original and the final version focused heavily on Saiyans to the point of promoting them to godhood. Then we got Resurrection 'F', which gave focused to Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta. Nothing before Super pushed anything but the Saiyans. Vegeta being stuck as Super Saiyan 2 is a minor thing considering.

Super does used power level consistency despite popular belief. Which is why you don't have stuff like Roshi fighting Hit or Piccolo fighting anyone mid-tier (by mid-tier I mean someone around Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta's level). And, no offense, but we always get the 'maybe next arc' with Piccolo and Piccolo didn't even want to train three years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta. If Piccolo isn't do anything in a tournament where there should be plenty of people within his weight class or can fight by outsmarting them (like Roshi and Krillin), I don't see much hope for him.

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

[Grimlock]

How come Piccolo wasn't able to keep up with the Saiyans after the Cell Saga? As soon as they went into the RoST, he was far outclassed. He had no fighting role in the Buu Arc and ran away from Shin. Yeah, he got a recent buff to put him on par with SSJ2 Gohan, but he doesn't have God ki and has no feasible way to catch up to Vegeta and Goku again unless he does Namekian Fusion. That's why it's predictable. Namekians don't have the same potential as Super Saiyans. It's how Toriyama wrote it man.

Because while Namekuseijins don't have the same potential and the zenkai gimmick, they're still fighters and can increase their powers, just not the same amount as Saiyans (we cannot ignore the out-universe explanation, which is: Piccolo didn't keep up because, like you said, he's not a Saiyan. Although I'm debating you because of this, I'll give you that Piccolo doesn't get the same treatment just because he's not a Saiyan. It seems Toriyama and Toei share your idea that only Saiyans can shine, which is terrible in the worst possible ways).

Also the fact that Piccolo can't keep up with Saiyans is not a legit reason, otherwise no one else from any other race could get their golden moment, everyone else should retire, then. We also don't know if Namekusejiins can't get god Ki. Why Saiyans should be the only one to have access to it?

[namekiansaiyan]

How come Piccolo wasn't able to keep up with the Saiyans after the Cell Saga? As soon as they went into the RoST, he was far outclassed. He had no fighting role in the Buu Arc and ran away from Shin. Yeah, he got a recent buff to put him on par with SSJ2 Gohan, but he doesn't have God ki and has no feasible way to catch up to Vegeta and Goku again unless he does Namekian Fusion. That's why it's predictable. Namekians don't have the same potential as Super Saiyans. It's how Toriyama wrote it man.

Because while Namekuseijins don't have the same potential and the zenkai gimmick, they're still fighters and can increase their powers, just not the same amount as Saiyans (we cannot ignore the out-universe explanation, which is: Piccolo didn't keep up because, like you said, he's not a Saiyan. Although I'm debating you because of this, I'll give you that Piccolo doesn't get the same treatment just because he's not a Saiyan. It seems Toriyama and Toei share your idea that only Saiyans can shine, which is terrible in the worst possible ways).

Also the fact that Piccolo can't keep up with Saiyans is not a legit reason, otherwise no one else from any other race could get their golden moment, everyone else should retire, then. We also don't know if Namekusejiins can't get god Ki. Why Saiyans should be the only one to have access to it?

If Saonel and Pilina are not fused at all then that means Piccolo should have a lot more room to grow.

Anyone can get God Ki or access Kaioken or Ultra Instict so it isn't just Piccolo who could gain from these things.

Toriyana can easily come up with something new for any race just like he did with Frieza bu giving him Golden.

[perucho1990]

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

Mirai Mai is probably one of the most underrated females in DBS, both manga and anime did a good job making her likeable.

[Michsi]

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

Mirai Mai is probably one of the most underrated females in DBS, both manga and anime did a good job making her likeable.

Which no one could have predicted happening even after BOG. As I said, anything's possible.

[namekiansaiyan]

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

Mirai Mai is probably one of the most underrated females in DBS, both manga and anime did a good job making her likeable.

Which no one could have predicted happening even after BOG. As I said, anything's possible.

I am just wondering who Toriyama could give a big role in the next arc to that is already connected to the main cast.

[Michsi]

I am just wondering who Toriyama could give a big role in the next arc to that is already connected to the main cast.

Cell. More Freeza. Even more Vegeta. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to bring back Radditz and Nappa.

[Noah]

I wonder if these namekian fights will have more interesting bits than limbs being rip off and renegerated soon afterwards.

[Olympian]

Oh look, another only Saiyans should be relevant post.

And "predictable" was in it.

It's how it's written. Piccolo cannot keep up with the Saiyans by his own strength, he's always needed Namekian Fusion. That capped out in the Cell Saga and he was far outclassed after the Saiyans went into the RoST. Sorry man, this is the Saiyan show and it's been that way since the end of the Cell Saga.

Roshi says hi.

Power levels are dependable on what they care to write and characters being relevant is the same thing.

[perucho1990]

But tbh I always believed that Toriyama made Mai relevant was his way of saying "Hey DBE I can make Mai a better character than your crappy movie".

In 2 weeks we get the next batch of spoilers and 1 more week after, Jump Festa info.

What can we get? A sequel to DBS? Planet Sadala Arc? OVAs/Specials?

[Ki Breaker]

I wonder if these namekian fights will have more interesting bits than limbs being rip off and renegerated soon afterwards.

Well.. no, there ya go..

I am just wondering who Toriyama could give a big role in the next arc to that is already connected to the main cast.

Cell. More Freeza. Even more Vegeta. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to bring back Radditz and Nappa.

I will wait patiently for them to let us know how these guys have infinity potential and how power keeps bubbling out of them

[namekiansaiyan]

I am just wondering who Toriyama could give a big role in the next arc to that is already connected to the main cast.

Cell. More Freeza. Even more Vegeta. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to bring back Radditz and Nappa.

I would want Cell the most and I hope Frieza does not stay.

I doubt they would bring Nappa or Raditz when they have a whole planet full of new Saiyans.

I wonder if these namekian fights will have more interesting bits than limbs being rip off and renegerated soon afterwards.

Expect a whole bunch of attacks to fill out their movesets so they can be used in games. They are Universe 6's last warriors so hopefully they will have a nice surprise.

[HeroR]

Wasn't going to continue the discussion but then I realized I somehow missed this post

There have been other Dragon Ball stuff before Super. We had the 2008 special which brought the cast back, which focused heavily on the Saiyans. We then got EOB which was about Super Saiyan Bardock. We then got an OVA of Destroy all Saiyans. We finally got Battle of Gods, both the original and the final version focused heavily on Saiyans to the point of promoting them to godhood. Then we got Resurrection 'F', which gave focused to Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta. Nothing before Super pushed anything but the Saiyans. Vegeta being stuck as Super Saiyan 2 is a minor thing considering.

Super does used power level consistency despite popular belief. Which is why you don't have stuff like Roshi fighting Hit or Piccolo fighting anyone mid-tier (by mid-tier I mean someone around Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta's level). And, no offense, but we always get the 'maybe next arc' with Piccolo and Piccolo didn't even want to train three years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta. If Piccolo isn't do anything in a tournament where there should be plenty of people within his weight class or can fight by outsmarting them (like Roshi and Krillin), I don't see much hope for him.

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

17 wasn't brought back by popular demand, he isn't that popular in Japan. From the 2004 poll:

Best Characters
1.Son Goku: 6,235 points
2.Vegeta: 2,527 points
3.Son Gohan: 2,131 points
4.Trunks: 1,487 points
5.Piccolo: 1,176 points
6.Son Goten: 798 points
7.Kuririn: 736 points
8.Majin Buu: 421 points
9.Freeza: 324 points
10.Android No.18: 204 points
11.Mister Satan: 201 points
12.Karin-sama: 185
13.Kame-sennin: 172 points
14.Cell: 170 points
15.Yamcha: 163 points
16.Tenshinhan: 125
17.Bulma: 112 points
18.Android No.17: 98 points
19.Yajirobe: 93 points
20.Videl: 86 points

He was brought back because Toriyama wanted him back. As for Mai, she was slowly brought back along with the rest of the Pilaf Gang with the Dragon Ball revival. And as I pointed out, if Piccolo at this time where there are plenty of people within his weight class that he can fight still can't get scene time, there doesn't paint a bright future for him outside of being Gohan's teacher.

[namekiansaiyan]

Wasn't going to continue the discussion but then I realized I somehow missed this post

There have been other Dragon Ball stuff before Super. We had the 2008 special which brought the cast back, which focused heavily on the Saiyans. We then got EOB which was about Super Saiyan Bardock. We then got an OVA of Destroy all Saiyans. We finally got Battle of Gods, both the original and the final version focused heavily on Saiyans to the point of promoting them to godhood. Then we got Resurrection 'F', which gave focused to Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta. Nothing before Super pushed anything but the Saiyans. Vegeta being stuck as Super Saiyan 2 is a minor thing considering.

Super does used power level consistency despite popular belief. Which is why you don't have stuff like Roshi fighting Hit or Piccolo fighting anyone mid-tier (by mid-tier I mean someone around Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta's level). And, no offense, but we always get the 'maybe next arc' with Piccolo and Piccolo didn't even want to train three years in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Goku and Vegeta. If Piccolo isn't do anything in a tournament where there should be plenty of people within his weight class or can fight by outsmarting them (like Roshi and Krillin), I don't see much hope for him.

The specials that came before BOG more or less used the tone left by the Buu arc, and yes, that's the arc where he got left in the dust by the saiyans hard. Bardock being the legendary SSJ was really the most daring they had been since GT, and it still didn't do anything to disrupt the status quo left by the ending of DB.

And as far as the "maybe next arc" hopefulness goes - what's wrong with that? 17 got brought back, probably due to popular demand (and even if not, it was still unexpected). If Mai - friggin' Mai - can be plucked out of the depths of irrelevancy and made love interest of one of the most popular characters of the franchise, I think anything can happen.

17 wasn't brought back by popular demand, he isn't that popular in Japan. From the 2004 poll:

Best Characters
1.Son Goku: 6,235 points
2.Vegeta: 2,527 points
3.Son Gohan: 2,131 points
4.Trunks: 1,487 points
5.Piccolo: 1,176 points
6.Son Goten: 798 points
7.Kuririn: 736 points
8.Majin Buu: 421 points
9.Freeza: 324 points
10.Android No.18: 204 points
11.Mister Satan: 201 points
12.Karin-sama: 185
13.Kame-sennin: 172 points
14.Cell: 170 points
15.Yamcha: 163 points
16.Tenshinhan: 125
17.Bulma: 112 points
18.Android No.17: 98 points
19.Yajirobe: 93 points
20.Videl: 86 points

He was brought back because Toriyama wanted him back. As for Mai, she was slowly brought back along with the rest of the Pilaf Gang with the Dragon Ball revival. And as I pointed out, if Piccolo at this time where there are plenty of people within his weight class that he can fight still can't get scene time, there doesn't paint a bright future for him outside of being Gohan's teacher.

Piccolo never left the main scene whereas everyone else did and that is what I see as his main problem. He can't have an arc where he returns and does something.

Piccolo is not done in this arc yet and could easily have fights against the Bugs or the Robots.

[HeroR]

Piccolo never left the main scene whereas everyone else did and that is what I see as his main problem. He can't have an arc where he returns and does something.

Piccolo is not done in this arc yet and could easily have fights against the Bugs or the Robots.

Actually, Piccolo had left the main scene. He had no role in the Future Trunks Saga in the manga, meaning that parts in the anime were added by Toei and nothing something Toriyama included.

[Michsi]

17 wasn't brought back by popular demand, he isn't that popular in Japan. From the 2004 poll:

Best Characters
1.Son Goku: 6,235 points
2.Vegeta: 2,527 points
3.Son Gohan: 2,131 points
4.Trunks: 1,487 points
5.Piccolo: 1,176 points
6.Son Goten: 798 points
7.Kuririn: 736 points
8.Majin Buu: 421 points
9.Freeza: 324 points
10.Android No.18: 204 points
11.Mister Satan: 201 points
12.Karin-sama: 185
13.Kame-sennin: 172 points
14.Cell: 170 points
15.Yamcha: 163 points
16.Tenshinhan: 125
17.Bulma: 112 points
18.Android No.17: 98 points
19.Yajirobe: 93 points
20.Videl: 86 points

He was brought back because Toriyama wanted him back. As for Mai, she was slowly brought back along with the rest of the Pilaf Gang with the Dragon Ball revival. And as I pointed out, if Piccolo at this time where there are plenty of people within his weight class that he can fight still can't get scene time, there doesn't paint a bright future for him outside of being Gohan's teacher.

Bringing the Pilaf gang back for comedic relief is one thing, making Mai as significant as she is now was completely out of left field.

All I remember is that there have been complaints about 17's fate in GT enough for the director to address it, but regardless, that wasn't the point. Popular demand or not, anything is possible. They could have Piccolo drop down to Chiaotzu's level and he could still make a comeback- that's the sort of story DB is.
As for the TOP, it's hard to give him a moment to shine when you have all these new characters going around so I'm not surprised his scenes aren't treated as a priority. But hey, he defeated what seemed to be the second strongest guy from a universe fairly easily. That's still something.
And even if he never recovers power-wise, they push this side that he is a strategist, and that could always be made interesting.

Actually, Piccolo had left the main scene. He had no role in the Future Trunks Saga in the manga, meaning that parts in the anime were added by Toei and nothing something Toriyama included.

Meant as he didn't separate himself from the main cast for an extended period of time so that he'd be given a grand entrance that warrants special treatment, a.k.a 17.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo never left the main scene whereas everyone else did and that is what I see as his main problem. He can't have an arc where he returns and does something.

Piccolo is not done in this arc yet and could easily have fights against the Bugs or the Robots.

Actually, Piccolo had left the main scene. He had no role in the Future Trunks Saga in the manga, meaning that parts in the anime were added by Toei and nothing something Toriyama included.

Nothing like everyone else though.

Frieza, 17, Gohan, Future Trunks, Krillin and Roshi have all been giving attention and all left in some form that has been mentioned in the show. 18 is the only exception.

Piccolo has not left like they have and has got nothing. The same logic can also be applied to Tien as well.

[HeroR]

Piccolo never left the main scene whereas everyone else did and that is what I see as his main problem. He can't have an arc where he returns and does something.

Piccolo is not done in this arc yet and could easily have fights against the Bugs or the Robots.

Actually, Piccolo had left the main scene. He had no role in the Future Trunks Saga in the manga, meaning that parts in the anime were added by Toei and nothing something Toriyama included.

Nothing like everyone else though.

Frieza, 17, Gohan, Future Trunks, Krillin and Roshi have all been giving attention and all left in some form that has been mentioned in the show. 18 is the only exception.

Piccolo has not left like they have and has got nothing. The same logic can also be applied to Tien as well.

Frieza is a villain, which rarely comes back in Dragon Ball if they're not redeemed. Future Trunks is also a special case since he lives in another timeline. Roshi only recently came back and so far got more important than Piccolo in many ways and Gohan has only recently came back after being left behind in Super.

And yes, the same logic does apply to Tien. Not really seeing the point.

Bringing the Pilaf gang back for comedic relief is one thing, making Mai as significant as she is now was completely out of left field.

All I remember is that there have been complaints about 17's fate in GT enough for the director to address it, but regardless, that wasn't the point. Popular demand or not, anything is possible. They could have Piccolo drop down to Chiaotzu's level and he could still make a comeback- that's the sort of story DB is.
As for the TOP, it's hard to give him a moment to shine when you have all these new characters going around so I'm not surprised his scenes aren't treated as a priority. But hey, he defeated what seemed to be the second strongest guy from a universe fairly easily. That's still something.
And even if he never recovers power-wise, they push this side that he is a strategist, and that could always be made interesting.

Actually, Piccolo had left the main scene. He had no role in the Future Trunks Saga in the manga, meaning that parts in the anime were added by Toei and nothing something Toriyama included.

Meant as he didn't separate himself from the main cast for an extended period of time so that he'd be given a grand entrance that warrants special treatment, a.k.a 17.

Except in the case of Mai, Toriyama said he made her Trunks' love interest just to writer some romance. So that was in the cards since Battle of Gods.

Toriyama still likes Piccolo enough to used him in some way, but Piccolo has almost no important story role, except for exposing Frost as a cheater and getting Gohan back in shape.

Having a lot of characters should make it easier for him to shine since you have so many characters you can used for him like Krillin and even Roshi. And he took out the second strongest, which is all assumption btw, in an universe regarded as fodder. Only one fighter really stood out and Gohan took that guy.