"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[omaro34]

It did sound like a Toriyama idea mainly because of an old idea he adopted decades ago on the whole life connection between Piccolo and Kami.

I'm not saying it didn't sound like a Toriyama idea, as it's definitely a recycled concept. I was just questioning this specific application of it being from him or if Toyotaro was borrowing it on his own as an explanation for something that I'm not sure needed an answer.

Yeah I'm not sure if it needed an answer either. This idea being used again does make some sense since creation and destruction are polar opposites much like Piccolo & Kami were in terms of personality. However, there needs to be more of an explanation on this concept in my opinion; it would be great to know the process involved on how the Gods of Destructions are appointed.

With that said, this whole life connection concept being brought back raises questions from an in-universe perspective. In episode 55 Beerus tells Whis to ensure nothing harmful happens to the Supreme Kai, but what about the other times when he was in danger? Especially back in the Buu Arc? You would think Beerus would be concerned about it instead of sleeping. I realize this old concept wasn't re-used yet, but I couldn't help but think of this. Others on this site have pointed this out too.

[kinisking]

I agree that the post crossed the line, but why is this one of the few communities where seemingly nearly ALL the mods feel the need to "carry their big stick" so publicly and make their moderation comments in the middle of someone's thread?

In most forum communities, this is generally handled with post deletion and a PM. Do the mods here feel a need to "make an example" out of someone? Is there a general consensus among mods that the common members too frequently forget who the bosses are & need public reminders?

It's your dog and pony show, so do what you want. Just asking a seemingly pertinent question given the mod culture of public chastising of members and little to no discretion (privacy, etc.) shown here.

Edit to clarify: I'm not simply complaining about mods - my reasoning is that it's far less jarring to go through a thread, see an off color comment from one member that can be easily ignored/skimmed over than it is to see said comment followed by several paragraphs from a mod that outline what they did wrong, quote the offense so that I have to read it again, then publicly outline in detail the disciplinary action taken against the member. That whole fiasco just draws attention to the infraction & detracts MUCH more from the discussion/thread than simply seeing that a post was deleted.

On the other hand, this is the only community I've been to that can be incredibly rude to the mods. They let people get away with a LOT of things, and give a lot of warnings but that isn't enough for a lot of people here. I don't understand the need to talk back every time.

[Xeztin]

Was this scene back in DBZ Filler? (Which I don't think it was in Kai) and Super is a sequel to Kai. I can't remember if it was in the manga.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[dbgtFO]

Yes, it was filler. We never actually get to see the characters' deaths in Trunks' timeline in the manga(only Gohan). All the anime staff had to go on was Trunks' statements(he didn't list Yajirobe as one of the deceased though, so they just came up with it by themselves).

[macho_man]

Was this scene back in DBZ Filler? (Which I don't think it was in Kai) and Super is a sequel to Kai. I can't remember if it was in the manga.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Just my in-universe theory to make it fit: he had a senzu into his pocket, so he barely survived. He always had senzu with him.

[DBZ Macky]

This is precisely why you shouldn't take filler seriously.
Although it is hard to do that when you don't have an absolute canon anyways.

[Duo]

I greatly enjoyed this chapter (15) and I think showing Trunks as a strong warrior who made better use out of a Super Saiyan form than anybody else had gives him a unique edge, even if it doesn't stack up to the current standard of power. It grinds my gears how this is basically the "hate on the manga" thread, even before full details are released or given sufficient time to settle. Super has really shown how much of the community consists of overreaction and negativity, even here on Kanzenshuu.

As for the modding issue that just took place, I welcome the public example. Rude, sarcastic horseshit need not be welcomed here or anywhere else. Enough is enough.

[kinisking]

I greatly enjoyed this chapter (15) and I think showing Trunks as a strong warrior who made better use out of a Super Saiyan form than anybody else had gives him a unique edge, even if it doesn't stack up to the current standard of power. It grinds my gears how this is basically the "hate on the manga" thread, even before full details are released or given sufficient time to settle. Super has really shown how much of the community consists of overreaction and negativity, even here on Kanzenshuu.

As for the modding issue that just took place, I welcome the public example. Rude, sarcastic horseshit need not be welcomed here or anywhere else. Enough is enough.

That only started on chapter 13 though. It made a decision that made everything confusing as hell.

[batistabus]

Based on Trunks vs Black compared to Trunks vs Son Goku, Black appears to be stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 3 form yet clearly weaker than a Super Saiyan God. Compare this to Black being weaker than Goku's Super Saiyan 2 form in the anime, it seems a bit more realistic that that Black could become a threat after so little time in the manga.

Anyway, if events unfold similarly to the anime and Black shows up in the present temporarily, we'll get a clear answer as to how the two compare.

[Duo]

I greatly enjoyed this chapter (15) and I think showing Trunks as a strong warrior who made better use out of a Super Saiyan form than anybody else had gives him a unique edge, even if it doesn't stack up to the current standard of power. It grinds my gears how this is basically the "hate on the manga" thread, even before full details are released or given sufficient time to settle. Super has really shown how much of the community consists of overreaction and negativity, even here on Kanzenshuu.

As for the modding issue that just took place, I welcome the public example. Rude, sarcastic horseshit need not be welcomed here or anywhere else. Enough is enough.

That only started on chapter 13 though. It made a decision that made everything confusing as hell.

I get that, but why is it so offensive to have alternate takes on the same overall story? Power scaling is not so damned critical as to justify pages and pages of fanboy outcry. Does the manga being different detract from the anime in some way?

Beyond that, this overall tone of things started to come into play around the time the manga fell a bit behind the anime. It's just needless, nonsensical outrage. This time, it keyed up before a coherent translation had even been brought into the fold. I implore everybody who posts in this thread to hold themselves to a higher standard than that. It's a real headache to read when I'm just trying to sort through for information and analysis, whiners be damned.

[Chelentano]

I greatly enjoyed this chapter (15) and I think showing Trunks as a strong warrior who made better use out of a Super Saiyan form than anybody else had gives him a unique edge, even if it doesn't stack up to the current standard of power. It grinds my gears how this is basically the "hate on the manga" thread, even before full details are released or given sufficient time to settle. Super has really shown how much of the community consists of overreaction and negativity, even here on Kanzenshuu.

As for the modding issue that just took place, I welcome the public example. Rude, sarcastic horseshit need not be welcomed here or anywhere else. Enough is enough.

That only started on chapter 13 though. It made a decision that made everything confusing as hell.

I get that, but why is it so offensive to have alternate takes on the same overall story? Power scaling is not so damned critical as to justify pages and pages of fanboy outcry. Does the manga being different detract from the anime in some way?

Beyond that, this overall tone of things started to come into play around the time the manga fell a bit behind the anime. It's just needless, nonsensical outrage. This time, it keyed up before a coherent translation had even been brought into the fold. I implore everybody who posts in this thread to hold themselves to a higher standard than that. It's a real headache to read when I'm just trying to sort through for information and analysis, whiners be damned.

I feel you. Never understood all this whining even before a proper translation, month after month. It's really tiring to look for really interesting comments on this thread.

[Drayenko]

Finally read the chapter and I gotta say it was pretty good. Except for Trunks overpowered transformation, which makes no sense no matter what excuse they make.

[TheMikado]

I get that, but why is it so offensive to have alternate takes on the same overall story? Power scaling is not so damned critical as to justify pages and pages of fanboy outcry. Does the manga being different detract from the anime in some way?

I hear this argument often and it's as if no one ever took a literary class. The main theme throughout the series since DBZ has been "power" gaining power, measuring power, obtaining power, etc. It literary is the central theme of the story. The problem is that you cannot have someone like Yamcha come out of nowhere and knockout SSJ Rose Black with a single punch. Due to this being a narrative formed primarily around power your core theme has to be logical to the audience. Power shonen have a particular issue, you could, for instance have the dumbest character in a mystery story solve the toughest case by accident with a particularly unique bit of knowledge. However it's difficult to translate that same scenario to a power shonen where your weakest character succeeds in defeating the strongest opponent. Typically, as has been shown, only the STRONGEST character can defeat the strongest enemy. And of course if they do not succeed the responsibility usually falls to the next strongest and so on. So why does it matter? Because it directly determines the plot and who fights who and will defeat who and for some people invested in a story or a character, as is their right to be, it matters.

[kinisking]

I greatly enjoyed this chapter (15) and I think showing Trunks as a strong warrior who made better use out of a Super Saiyan form than anybody else had gives him a unique edge, even if it doesn't stack up to the current standard of power. It grinds my gears how this is basically the "hate on the manga" thread, even before full details are released or given sufficient time to settle. Super has really shown how much of the community consists of overreaction and negativity, even here on Kanzenshuu.

As for the modding issue that just took place, I welcome the public example. Rude, sarcastic horseshit need not be welcomed here or anywhere else. Enough is enough.

That only started on chapter 13 though. It made a decision that made everything confusing as hell.

I get that, but why is it so offensive to have alternate takes on the same overall story? Power scaling is not so damned critical as to justify pages and pages of fanboy outcry. Does the manga being different detract from the anime in some way?

Beyond that, this overall tone of things started to come into play around the time the manga fell a bit behind the anime. It's just needless, nonsensical outrage. This time, it keyed up before a coherent translation had even been brought into the fold. I implore everybody who posts in this thread to hold themselves to a higher standard than that. It's a real headache to read when I'm just trying to sort through for information and analysis, whiners be damned.

To some people it really is that important though. Before that, it was much more liked. I think people are used to Toei doing whatever they want but for toyotorou they have a double standard. I still like the manga because the choreography is great!

[Sodhi]

I mean tbh trunks is overpowered in the anime too. Vegeta was ssblue while beating him up, so I dont see a problem with goku doing the same thing with a weaker form in the manga.

[LightBing]

I find it quite weird that people think Trunks power up is crap. It is the most reasonable one we've had in Super and better than about half of the power ups in Dragon Ball.

Let's enumerate them.

1. A long period of training time and fights. Totaling 10 years.
2. Highly motivated character and hybrid-Saiyan, meaning a super prodigy(pun intended).
3. A major fight against Babidi and Dabra. About one year of fight's with Black. Note: In Dragon Ball characters grow exponentially stronger in times of conflict, compared with peaceful periods.

Is this not enough? Or is it because people can't imagine a SSJ2 being stronger/close to a SSJ3? I know Goku has also been training, but did Whis help him improve that much? Seemed to me that a huge chunk of it was about SSJB.
At this point it seems Goku and Vegeta are very close to their limitations, Vegeta said so himself while in the RoSaT. Which by the way they stayed for three years and nobody acknowledged any sort of improvement.

Just my two cents regarding the topic.
Sometimes it seems people lack perspective and complain about Super, when they're actually complaining about Dragon Ball in general, besides praising the original manga/anime.
The contrived power ups, Dragon Ball did it. New transformations are recolors? In Dragon Ball one was adding sparks and the other 30cm of hair. Ever shrinking main cast, Dragon Ball did it.
Not to say these situations don't deserve criticism but Super is staying true to Dragon Ball.

But I digress.
I'm pretty excited for Goku vs Black, which I assume will happen next chapter. There's hope that even if the manga is behind, Toyotarõ might reveal information ahead of the anime. Like with the God link.

[Drayenko]

[*]A long period of training time and fights. Totaling 10 years.

Goku's been training too.

[*]Highly motivated character and hybrid-Saiyan, meaning a super prodigy(pun intended).

This wasn't a factor in the Cell saga so there's no reason to think he is a prodigy.

[*]A major fight against Babidi and Dabra. About one year of fight's with Black. Note: In Dragon Ball characters grow exponentially stronger in times of conflict, compared with peaceful periods.[/list]

Goku has been training with a GOD OF DESTRUCTION.

Is this not enough? Or is it because people can't imagine a SSJ2 being stronger/close to a SSJ3? I know Goku has also been training, but did Whis help him improve that much? Seemed to me that a huge chunk of it was about SSJB

Goku and Vegeta always train in their base form. Again. They've been training with people that are who knows how many time more powerful than Dabura, which Goku could have killed in the Buu saga, no problem.

You can justify this thing however you want. It makes no sense at all.

What the anime did was fair, as it showed a Goku that wasn't giving his everything during his sparring with Trunks.

[kinisking]

I find it quite weird that people think Trunks power up is crap. It is the most reasonable one we've had in Super and better than about half of the power ups in Dragon Ball.

Let's enumerate them.

1. A long period of training time and fights. Totaling 10 years.
2. Highly motivated character and hybrid-Saiyan, meaning a super prodigy(pun intended).
3. A major fight against Babidi and Dabra. About one year of fight's with Black. Note: In Dragon Ball characters grow exponentially stronger in times of conflict, compared with peaceful periods.

Is this not enough? Or is it because people can't imagine a SSJ2 being stronger/close to a SSJ3? I know Goku has also been training, but did Whis help him improve that much? Seemed to me that a huge chunk of it was about SSJB.
At this point it seems Goku and Vegeta are very close to their limitations, Vegeta said so himself while in the RoSaT. Which by the way they stayed for three years and nobody acknowledged any sort of improvement.

Just my two cents regarding the topic.
Sometimes it seems people lack perspective and complain about Super, when they're actually complaining about Dragon Ball in general, besides praising the original manga/anime.
The contrived power ups, Dragon Ball did it. New transformations are recolors? In Dragon Ball one was adding sparks and the other 30cm of hair. Ever shrinking main cast, Dragon Ball did it.
Not to say these situations don't deserve criticism but Super is staying true to Dragon Ball.

But I digress.
I'm pretty excited for Goku vs Black, which I assume will happen next chapter. There's hope that even if the manga is behind, Toyotarõ might reveal information ahead of the anime. Like with the God link.

This isn't as simple as ss2=ss3 though. I could have gotten behind that. This is ss2= God buffed ss3! If trunks was equal to ss3 goku in BOG that wouldve been fine Hut Goku's ss3 is way ahead of anything in Z at this point. Future trunks was never shown to be much more capable than Vegeta but now he's stronger than Goku would have ever been if he didn't meet Whis and Beerus.

[Khin]

This isn't as simple as ss2=ss3 though. I could have gotten behind that. This is ss2= God buffed ss3! If trunks was equal to ss3 goku in BOG that wouldve been fine Hut Goku's ss3 is way ahead of anything in Z at this point. Future trunks was never shown to be much more capable than Vegeta but now he's stronger than Goku would have ever been if he didn't meet Whis and Beerus.

Goku was basically a Super Saiyan God in the whole fight in the manga. He reverts back to base and then the fight ends with no statement or implication that he absorbed the Super Saiyan God power whatsoever, so Goku shouldn't that strong compared to his power before he become a God. Piccolo (Who was implied to be weaker than Boo) being able to fight against Frost further supports this.

[kinisking]

This isn't as simple as ss2=ss3 though. I could have gotten behind that. This is ss2= God buffed ss3! If trunks was equal to ss3 goku in BOG that wouldve been fine Hut Goku's ss3 is way ahead of anything in Z at this point. Future trunks was never shown to be much more capable than Vegeta but now he's stronger than Goku would have ever been if he didn't meet Whis and Beerus.

Goku was basically a Super Saiyan God in the whole fight in the manga. He reverts back to base and then the fight ends with no statement or implication that he absorbed the Super Saiyan God power whatsoever, so Goku shouldn't that strong compared to his power before he become a God. Piccolo (Who was implied to be weaker than Boo) being able to fight against Frost further supports this.

Piccolo fights against Frost in the anime too and it's clear there that he absorbed the power.