"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:10 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Maybe Goku really has become evil and he's telling everyone what they want to hear.
Would honestly be a lot more interesting than whatever the fuck Toei is doing with him now. They introduced the plot point that Goku's reckless battle boner is responsible for the universe's destruction and that they all see him as a hazard at best and evil scumbag at worst because of it, only to forget it exists a few episodes later. And Toyotaro introduced it only to shut it down like 3 pages later by having characters state he's responsible for their chance of survival, just to make sure we know he "dindu nuffin, Gokuu-san can do no wrong and you should pray to him every night."
As much as people hate the idea of evil Goku for being cliche, it'd definitely be the most interesting Super has been. If Goku actually does turn out to be evil in this tournament it would be a total shock and no one would be able to predict what happens next.
Beerus will kill him almost instantly because Goku is still weaker.


That plot point was never going to go anywhere because Goku wouldn't care what others thought as long as he gets to fight then he will fix it. Its almost exactly what he told Bulma in the Buu saga about her parents. Piccolo did the exact same thing with Super Buuu.


"But normal people would get" Normal people don't have dragon balls. Like honestly, we know they are coming back, why should the show lie to me and pretend they aren't.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:10 pm

Totamo wrote:Beerus will kill him almost instantly because Goku is still weaker.


That plot point was never going to go anywhere because Goku wouldn't care what others thought as long as he gets to fight then he will fix it. Its almost exactly what he told Bulma in the Buu saga about her parents. Piccolo did the exact same thing with Super Buuu.


"But normal people would get" Normal people don't have dragon balls. Like honestly, we know they are coming back, why should the show lie to me and pretend they aren't.
Exactly this, plus the fact Goku did nothing to get blamed for. It's kinda concerning how obsessed some people are in having drama in their lives.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:13 pm

We know Goku hasn't done anything to be blamed for, they keep hammering down that point once every 5 minutes. That's the problem. Make him the one to blame and the arc's instantly more interesting.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Doctor. wrote:We know Goku hasn't done anything to be blamed for, they keep hammering down that point once every 5 minutes. That's the problem. Make him the one to blame and the arc's instantly more interesting.
But if he is just going to get away with it after bringing everyone back, won't that just make him an unlikable asshole? I mean you did see the initial reaction to that plotpoint, the fandom imploded with rage, not interest and this arc is all about fanservice.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:19 pm

Totamo wrote:
Doctor. wrote:We know Goku hasn't done anything to be blamed for, they keep hammering down that point once every 5 minutes. That's the problem. Make him the one to blame and the arc's instantly more interesting.
But if he is just going to get away with it after bringing everyone back, won't that just make him an unlikable asshole? I mean you did see the initial reaction to that plotpoint, the fandom imploded with rage, not interest and this arc is all about fanservice.
I mean, you're just assuming that a) they're bringing everyone back and that b) he'd get away with it. There's plenty of ways to write an arc with that set-up.

The fandom also imploded with rage when they found out Freeza was coming back and look at them now. It's all about the execution.

Another arc about fanservice? As opposed to the other 4?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:43 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Doctor. wrote:We know Goku hasn't done anything to be blamed for, they keep hammering down that point once every 5 minutes. That's the problem. Make him the one to blame and the arc's instantly more interesting.
But if he is just going to get away with it after bringing everyone back, won't that just make him an unlikable asshole? I mean you did see the initial reaction to that plotpoint, the fandom imploded with rage, not interest and this arc is all about fanservice.
I mean, you're just assuming that a) they're bringing everyone back and that b) he'd get away with it. There's plenty of ways to write an arc with that set-up.

The fandom also imploded with rage when they found out Freeza was coming back and look at them now. It's all about the execution.

Another arc about fanservice? As opposed to the other 4?
Because this is dragon ball, when has that not happened? Future Trunks? You mean the arc that pissed off a lot of people.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:44 pm

Totamo wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Totamo wrote: But if he is just going to get away with it after bringing everyone back, won't that just make him an unlikable asshole? I mean you did see the initial reaction to that plotpoint, the fandom imploded with rage, not interest and this arc is all about fanservice.
I mean, you're just assuming that a) they're bringing everyone back and that b) he'd get away with it. There's plenty of ways to write an arc with that set-up.

The fandom also imploded with rage when they found out Freeza was coming back and look at them now. It's all about the execution.

Another arc about fanservice? As opposed to the other 4?
Because this is dragon ball, when has that not happened? Future Trunks? You mean the arc that pissed off a lot of people.
I don't think Toriyama really cares who he pisses off.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Slaythe » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:59 pm

LightBing wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
LightBing wrote: Goku's choice of transformation is the conclusion. Toyotarõ didn't have Goku turn SSJ3 just because. It's the classic Dragon Ball visual representation to give us a power scale.
I also didn't write level but realm which throws a much wider net because the fight was interrupted.
You could make the argument that that's the narrative intent, but in universe 17 could be far stronger and there's nothing contradicting it. He was holding back to whatever level Goku was using and clearly had power to spare against SSJ3 Goku, plus Goku can't even feel his ki so he has no way of gauging his true strength, if he hadn't stopped the fight he may have been forced to transform even further. Toyo probably did intend to use that as a demonstration of power but I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be God level anyway.
He could be stronger, far stronger just goes against the whole point of the scene which is establishing #17 new power. Goku was gauging his power, note that he went from Base to SSJ2 to SSJ3. You can see one's movements and feel his punches to guess one's strength, this happened in the Android arc with those fighting and observing the Androids.

The idea that #17 is God level is to me ridiculous. Besides making the whole fighting useless it also ridicules SSJ God. Something the manga has respected, the line "this is a level I never imagined existed" uttered by Goku after the ritual actually matters in the manga.
Lol

So it's okay for Gohan to catch up to gods in 4 hours and for Frieza to surpass them in 4 months but 17 is a no go ? K.

17 was reacting to Goku's own power here. He fought base, he fought ssj2, he fought ssj3, Goku didn't have the advantage ONCE.

Dende also stated 17 would be a terrifying enemy. So basically this manga changed nothing. Both were holding back and 17 is a strong character, relevant even in this day and age.

In the anime, Goku can go "x20" kaioken making him 20 times stronger instantly even if 17 was exactly blue level, which he probably isn't.

Gohan and 17 being "blue tier" in the anime is just there to show they're relevant, because Goku can outpower them by 20 times....

In the manga SSblue is a lot stronger on its own so Gohan and 17 are probably nowhere near that.

They're still far beyond SSJ3 and probably right under god. Still a gigantic jump.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:03 pm

All Goku said was that he doesn't know what to wish for. This does not show that Goku doesn't care for the fate of others.
We already heard Goku agree that it's up to him to save the universe from destruction.

Why do you people create scenarios to contend about? :thumbdown:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:09 pm

Doctor. wrote:We know Goku hasn't done anything to be blamed for, they keep hammering down that point once every 5 minutes. That's the problem. Make him the one to blame and the arc's instantly more interesting.
The "Goku is to blame" stuff died long ago, you said so yourself... Even if they continued that, wouldn't the contestants just turn into "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!!" kind of "villains"? I mean, the audience would know they are wrong anyway so it wouldn't be different than a random enemy attacking the heroes because they're in his way.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:59 pm

alakazam^ wrote:The "Goku is to blame" stuff died long ago, you said so yourself... Even if they continued that, wouldn't the contestants just turn into "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!!" kind of "villains"? I mean, the audience would know they are wrong anyway so it wouldn't be different than a random enemy attacking the heroes because they're in his way.
I don't know why they felt like it needed to be a "thing" in the first place if it was just going to get waved off with no follow-up. In the anime it just makes Goku look like a weird jerk for a couple episodes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:48 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:The "Goku is to blame" stuff died long ago, you said so yourself... Even if they continued that, wouldn't the contestants just turn into "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!!" kind of "villains"? I mean, the audience would know they are wrong anyway so it wouldn't be different than a random enemy attacking the heroes because they're in his way.
I don't know why they felt like it needed to be a "thing" in the first place if it was just going to get waved off with no follow-up. In the anime it just makes Goku look like a weird jerk for a couple episodes.
Because the is the primary reason people attacked U7, which was outright explained several times in the show.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mahakaishin1991 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:20 pm

HeroR wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:The "Goku is to blame" stuff died long ago, you said so yourself... Even if they continued that, wouldn't the contestants just turn into "YOU RUINED MY LIFE!!" kind of "villains"? I mean, the audience would know they are wrong anyway so it wouldn't be different than a random enemy attacking the heroes because they're in his way.
I don't know why they felt like it needed to be a "thing" in the first place if it was just going to get waved off with no follow-up. In the anime it just makes Goku look like a weird jerk for a couple episodes.
Because the is the primary reason people attacked U7, which was outright explained several times in the show.
still feel the beerus is hated and not goku thing in the manga is better

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:21 am

mahakaishin1991 wrote:
still feel the beerus is hated and not goku thing in the manga is better
It unequivocally is. In the anime, they essentially hate Goku for saving them from being wiped out. Here they hate Universe 7 because Beerus is an annoying dick. That is more palatable.

Also, some things:

1. Katchin cubes were an excellent callback both to the original manga, and the video games where Kaioshin's ultimate was a katchin cube. It was also a dragonball-specific allusion to godhood, rather than generic anime rings bullshit you see on every "godly" character that shows up in Japanese media.

2. Goku being "evil" and having to learn from that is the same kind of fanfic-level writing that made Luke jaded in Episode 8. It comes from people wanting to create their own dragonball or star wars, rather than looking at what's been done and making something consistent with the themes and motifs of the story. Part of Goku's entire character is his purity and the ramifications thereof, and making him "develop" out of that is misguided. That isn't to say Goku can't be developed, but it is saying that is the absolute wrong way to do it.

3. 17 isn't Super Saiyan 3 level. 17 is not NOT super saiyan 3 level either. No conclusions can be drawn from that fight since Goku wasn't taking it seriously, but gauged that he'd need to be SS3 to compete. That puts 17 in the vague territory of "above Super Saiyan 2 Goku". That's literally the only conclusion that can be drawn, especially since Goku made it clear he wasn't there to fight.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Spider-Man » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:50 am

An ok chapter.
    -I'ts nice to see Mr Satan again and I did not expected Oob to appear this early.
      -While #17 motivation is lame but I do like the fact he participate in ToP because of Krillin and I do want to see a team up of both of them.
        -The battle of Goku vs #17 was rushed but at least SS3 look cool.
          -I'm liking the direction of Gohan,i wonder if we will see Goku vs Gohan.
            Overall ok chapter,the recruitment is pretty good and it doesn't rushed or dragged.

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            Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

            Post by HeroR » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:06 pm

            I have been wondering, why didn't they suggest throwing Buu in the Time Chamber? Unlike in he anime where Vegeta blew it up, they still have access to it.
            Kanassa wrote:
            precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
            Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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            Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

            Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:42 pm

            I wonder if they are going to finish the arc in super before the manga even starts the tournament. The way things are going, seems like the tournament may beging during march.

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            Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

            Post by sintzu » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:51 pm

            Kenneth La Torre wrote:I wonder if they are going to finish the arc in super before the manga even starts the tournament. The way things are going, seems like the tournament may beging during march.
            I think it'll end before March while the remaining episodes up untill the end of March will be a mini filler arc or separate slice of life episodes. In terms of the manga I agree, based on how slow things are it most likely won't start the tournament until the anime's done, this way they can have a new arc playing in the anime while the manga keeps the previous arc alive but in a fresh way due to the changes.
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            Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

            Post by Zamasu55 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:28 pm

            HeroR wrote:I have been wondering, why didn't they suggest throwing Buu in the Time Chamber? Unlike in he anime where Vegeta blew it up, they still have access to it.
            Because Toei and Toriyama decided that Buu is out.

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            Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

            Post by HeroR » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:46 am

            Zamasu55 wrote:
            HeroR wrote:I have been wondering, why didn't they suggest throwing Buu in the Time Chamber? Unlike in he anime where Vegeta blew it up, they still have access to it.
            Because Toei and Toriyama decided that Buu is out.
            Not answering the question.
            Kanassa wrote:
            precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
            Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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