"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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sangofe
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Fri May 25, 2018 11:33 am

batistabus wrote:
UltraPrimus22 wrote:snip
Dragon Room has a direct line to Toei where they say things like: "Put this in your show so we can sell merchandise to this specific demographic."
Can you back this up with sources, or are you just guessing?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri May 25, 2018 11:40 am

sangofe wrote:
batistabus wrote:
UltraPrimus22 wrote:snip
Dragon Room has a direct line to Toei where they say things like: "Put this in your show so we can sell merchandise to this specific demographic."
Can you back this up with sources, or are you just guessing?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiosama » Fri May 25, 2018 11:36 pm

How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer? This Manga has been terrible the last couple of months and finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer is the icing on the cake. Very problematic. I wonder if he will get fired and how this will impact the Manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am

Kaiosama wrote:How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer? This Manga has been terrible the last couple of months and finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer is the icing on the cake. Very problematic. I wonder if he will get fired and how this will impact the Manga.
I like it . I don’t care about that , still enjoy the monthly reading and some conversations.
I understand if somebody don’t like it , but I hope this author and series keep on going long time , meaning after t.o.p , because yeah ... this arc is not the best considering the same scenario and the fact that we know the end
Also hope that Japan consumers of dbs manga don’t care too and enjoy this manga as I do , because seems like If it’s up to English talking people talking in forums this product will be cancelled tomorrow .
Pretty soon vol 6 will be released in Japan , that’s the next test .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat May 26, 2018 1:29 am

Kaiosama wrote:How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?
How can people like Toriyama anymore after finding out he's a tax evader?

[spoiler]In case that went over your head, a misstep doesn't define a person or devalue their strengths. The world isn't black and white.[/spoiler]

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiosama » Sat May 26, 2018 1:40 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?
How can people like Toriyama anymore after finding out he's a tax evader?

[spoiler]In case that went over your head, a misstep doesn't define a person or devalue their strengths. The world isn't black and white.[/spoiler]
How is that relevant to his art?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Fionordequester » Sat May 26, 2018 1:52 am

Kaiosama wrote:How is that relevant to his art?
You never said that it was just about Toyotaro's art. You asked "how can anyone like Toyotaro after [finding out that he traces]", not "how can anyone like Toyotaro's work?"

You see the difference?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat May 26, 2018 1:53 am

Kaiosama wrote: How is that relevant to his art?
How is a crossover promotional image with little artistic integrity to begin with relevant to his main work?

This is exactly what I mean by people blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I won't defend it, I'm not happy about it, it's beneath Toyotaro as an artist. That doesn't automatically make it a career-ender. The whole debacle has been discussed to death and everyone should probably move on if they have nothing insightful to offer.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat May 26, 2018 2:08 am

Plus, the manga is more than just the artwork anyway.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by StardustCrusaderX » Sat May 26, 2018 2:35 am

prince212 wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer? This Manga has been terrible the last couple of months and finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer is the icing on the cake. Very problematic. I wonder if he will get fired and how this will impact the Manga.
I like it . I don’t care about that , still enjoy the monthly reading and some conversations.
I understand if somebody don’t like it , but I hope this author and series keep on going long time , meaning after t.o.p , because yeah ... this arc is not the best considering the same scenario and the fact that we know the end
Also hope that Japan consumers of dbs manga don’t care too and enjoy this manga as I do , because seems like If it’s up to English talking people talking in forums this product will be cancelled tomorrow .
Pretty soon vol 6 will be released in Japan , that’s the next test .
I pretty much agree with everything you said man. Not everyone starts from greatness, we all start off as amateurs at one point in a profession. So i've got nothing against Toyotaro and hopes the manga continues as well. Just can't believe folks like Ajay and Geekdom are blowing this out of proportion but i'll stop here and say no more.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiosama » Sat May 26, 2018 3:21 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Kaiosama wrote: How is that relevant to his art?
How is a crossover promotional image with little artistic integrity to begin with relevant to his main work?

This is exactly what I mean by people blowing this whole thing out of proportion. I won't defend it, I'm not happy about it, it's beneath Toyotaro as an artist. That doesn't automatically make it a career-ender. The whole debacle has been discussed to death and everyone should probably move on if they have nothing insightful to offer.
Because it's promo artwork he sketched for freaking V-Jump. I don't know man, it's not a good look and I don't see how people can be defending this. It's absolutely distasteful.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat May 26, 2018 3:58 am

Kaiosama wrote: Because it's promo artwork he sketched for freaking V-Jump.
That's why it's indefensible, but that doesn't insinuate what you were suggesting in your initial post. People are capable of distinguishing a person's errors from their general talents without turning everything into an asinine witch hunt. Again, a screw-up doesn't instantly terminate someone's character or their career or even their legacy, at least not by necessity. The world doesn't operate on those ridiculously petulant extremes.

The idea that this somehow retroactively makes the manga itself worse is just as bad as all the people denying that Toyotaro traced the image at all. There is a middle ground. A promotional image with some swiped elements isn't the end of reality as we know it. Let's try to be reasonable about this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat May 26, 2018 4:15 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:How can people like this anymore after finding out that Toyotaro is a tracer?
How can people like Toriyama anymore after finding out he's a tax evader?

[spoiler]In case that went over your head, a misstep doesn't define a person or devalue their strengths. The world isn't black and white.[/spoiler]
These "tracer" shit comments go way too far. Just enjoy what it is god dammit. And the comment about Toriyama... For starters, he probably never did this with intent, he probably was just not enough invested in it to know. But even if he did, he would not have been the first. Look at players like Messi and Ronaldo.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Sat May 26, 2018 6:51 am

Tax fraud is rarely ever accidental. Especially when you're earning as much as Toriyama.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sat May 26, 2018 12:04 pm

Lately, people have been saying that the past few chapters were bad like it's a fact. I'm not one to praise Toyotaro indiscriminately, but I still like 35 and 36. "lol Jiren looks like so hermano," "Toppo should have one shot Goku," "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER GOT ELIMINATED REEEEE." These don't actually speak for the quality of the chapters. Of course the art wasn't perfect in 35 and Jiren vs Goku ended really abruptly in 36, but these don't make the chapters instant 0/10. Not mention that even if you think these last few chapters are bad, they certainly shouldn't retroactively make you appreciate the general quality of the manga as a whole less.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Sat May 26, 2018 3:07 pm

Saiga wrote:Tax fraud is rarely ever accidental. Especially when you're earning as much as Toriyama.
Point is that he was not handling the economy himself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Sat May 26, 2018 8:09 pm

Bergamo wrote:Lately, people have been saying that the past few chapters were bad like it's a fact. I'm not one to praise Toyotaro indiscriminately, but I still like 35 and 36. "lol Jiren looks like so hermano," "Toppo should have one shot Goku," "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER GOT ELIMINATED REEEEE." These don't actually speak for the quality of the chapters. Of course the art wasn't perfect in 35 and Jiren vs Goku ended really abruptly in 36, but these don't make the chapters instant 0/10. Not mention that even if you think these last few chapters are bad, they certainly shouldn't retroactively make you appreciate the general quality of the manga as a whole less.
So we’re not gonna touch upon the many problems I’ve noticed throughout this chapter even though I’ve stated things other than your examples?

Can’t have a discussion if were just going to keep complaining about the same people who whine every month.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sat May 26, 2018 8:20 pm

Exline wrote:
Bergamo wrote:Lately, people have been saying that the past few chapters were bad like it's a fact. I'm not one to praise Toyotaro indiscriminately, but I still like 35 and 36. "lol Jiren looks like so hermano," "Toppo should have one shot Goku," "MY FAVORITE CHARACTER GOT ELIMINATED REEEEE." These don't actually speak for the quality of the chapters. Of course the art wasn't perfect in 35 and Jiren vs Goku ended really abruptly in 36, but these don't make the chapters instant 0/10. Not mention that even if you think these last few chapters are bad, they certainly shouldn't retroactively make you appreciate the general quality of the manga as a whole less.
So we’re not gonna touch upon the many problems I’ve noticed throughout this chapter even though I’ve stated things other than your examples?

Can’t have a discussion if were just going to keep complaining about the same people who whine every month.
I'm not talking about the same annoying people that say the same thing every month, or people like you who actually discuss the chapter. I'm talking about people like Geekdom101 who state their biased opinions authoritatively and people who haven't read the manga but think it's mediocre because someone told them to think that way.

On a side note, could people stop mentioning the tracing. This isn't the "Toyotaro Discussion Thread." Also, if people would stop assuming that everyone who likes the manga is eternally loyal to Toyotaro and thinks he could do no wrong, then that would be great.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun May 27, 2018 1:17 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:How can people like Toriyama anymore after finding out he's a tax evader?
Are you kidding? What we fans have to do about it? Nothing, because is nothing disgraceful as Nobuhiro Watsuki (Rurouni Kenshin author) being arrested for having archives with children pornography, that is indeed a shame for fans who liked his work.

What Toriyama do with his money does not concern to us.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sun May 27, 2018 2:29 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:What Toriyama do with his money does not concern to us.
By holding money in off-shore accounts, Toriyama denied millions of yen in tax money from Japanese society. On the other hand, Toriyama's works are seen as a great service to Japanese society & beyond.

Tracing impacts the work we're consuming, but has a relatively small impact on the real world. Tax evasion has no impact on the work we're consuming, but has a much larger impact on the real world. Which is worse isn't really relevant; they're both mistakes that shouldn't be repeated.

As nothing new or interesting has been said about this or the Toyotaro incident in several days, I'd say it's time to move on.

----

In the anime, we have a Yardratian and Tsufurian from Universe 2. The Yardratian was seen wearing the familiar garb and using Instantaneous Movement, but the Tsufurian had no evidence of his race outside of a bio in a magazine(?). The fact that two Universe 7 races are present in a non-twin universe seems inconsistent with what has been established. I suppose Jimeze's abilities could plausibly allow him to travel between universes if he could somehow sense ki, but that's never explained.

In the manga, Jimeze is eliminated without using or talking about Instantaneous Movement. Was Toyotaro just trimming the fat?

My prediction is that, in the manga's continuity, these characters do not belong to the same races mentioned in the anime. These characters were designed by Toei, not Toriyama, and are thus subject to filler-style inconsistencies. The Yardratians Toriyama designed for Dragon Ball Online look nothing like Jimeze/the Yardratians shown in the DBZ anime filler. When Toyotaro had to include these character in his version, I'm thinking that he omitted the racial detail intended by Toei as to be consistent with Toriyama's vision. We'll have to see what happens with Zarbuto before I can be certain of this.

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