"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MoscoSama » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:03 pm

How much does it pay to be a toei shill?

I'm looking for a side gig and was wondering if it paid well? Benefits?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:05 pm

UltraPrimus22 wrote: would have perfectly suffice to your point.
No, that wouldn't have been my point. My point is I see that stuff as very valid things to critique, whether it's the anime's or the manga's. If you care about animation and art, or art and panel composition, then by all means complain about them. My point is I've never seen a critique outside of that stuff that has much merit or well-reasoned thought behind it.

It should be noted that in this thread, however, I've never seen lengthy diatribes come about with people complaining about Toei's substandard animation. This dialogue between us is the most it has ever been discussed.

But I'm done talking about this now.
MoscoSama wrote:How much does it pay to be a toei shill?

I'm looking for a side gig and was wondering if it paid well? Benefits?
This is unnecessary.

Assume good faith from the people you engage with until proven otherwise. Once that happens, ignore them and engage with others. If you can't do that, it becomes a toxic environment.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UltraPrimus22 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:28 pm

TKA wrote:
No, that wouldn't have been my point. My point is I see that stuff as very valid things to critique, whether it's the anime's or the manga's. If you care about animation and art, or art and panel composition, then by all means complain about them. My point is I've never seen a critique outside of that stuff that has much merit or well-reasoned thought behind it.
Sure, that part I understood clearly from your original comment (and thank you for the additional clarification on that). It was miscommunicated on my part, but I intended to say that ending off your point at "don't care about those things" would have kept the original message intact, not summarizing your whole point about frivolous complaints about Toyotaro's output into solely about how the fandom views on his artistic merits. Maybe even adding parts from your elaborated point, like so:
The only ones I think hold up are those related to Toyotaro's drawing and paneling ability. I see that stuff as very valid things to critique if you care about art and panel composition. By all means, complain about them. I don't really care about those things myself.
It would make the comment's focus more manga-centric, and avoid inviting a discussion between the two mediums that isn't about their scripting (especially on a topic you've admitted disinterest in and willful ignorance about).
TKA wrote:It should be noted that in this thread, however, I've never seen lengthy diatribes come about with people complaining about Toei's substandard animation. This dialogue between us is the most it has ever been discussed.

But I'm done talking about this now.
Sure, I'll gladly respect your wishes, and thank you for taking the time to reply back. :D

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:58 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How much does it pay to be a toei shill?

I'm looking for a side gig and was wondering if it paid well? Benefits?
Some of the posts being reported are absolutely fine. This, however, is unacceptable and a strike has been issued against this user for this post.

All would do well to review the community guidelines, which you agreed to (twice) prior to registration. Posts you simply do not agree with should not be reported, and may result in a strike being issued back against your account.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:08 am

Pannaliciour wrote:
LightBing wrote:Bad execution is bad regardless if Mr.Toriyama did it, Toyotarõ or Toei. Ditto for bad ideas.
You can like the same idea in one version and hate it in another, if the version you like executed it differently.

Things aren't black and white. This weird tribalism doesn't do anyone any favors. Let's please worry ourselves about content.

Anyway..., Goku has an idea about Ultra Instinct and the guidance from Whis, Jiren is there to push him to the limit. That's the minimum the manga gave us. That's enough since Goku's a broken prodigy; now I would like something more to give Ultra Instinct greater impact. The Genki Dama stuff, I don't like it and I can't imagine many scenario's where I would like it.

That's still a bit in the future, I'm more curious about the end of the Kefla conflict and what's going to happen with Muten Roshi.
Wait when did Goku know about UI and the guidance from Whis?
It seems like some people should go back and read the manga, because the only build-up Ultra Instinct got there was in chapters 27 and 28, when Whis told Vegeta to learn how to move without thinking and then when Goku saw Beerus using it. That’s all the build-up it had, wow. And half of it was just needed considering how RoF was skipped. So, by the manga’s continuity, the whole concept of moving without thinking is introduced in the very arc where Goku achieves Ultra Instinct.
I wouldn’t exactly call this good writing. I much prefer Goku casually obtaining a power mentioned 90 episodes before, and by his own admission in the latest anime episode he achieved it casually which is why he can’t use it anymore. Not that the manga builds it up, as the little build-up UI has there is mostly damage control, but that’s fine because a form which Goku achieves casually doesn’t necessitate any build-up.
It seems like some fans can’t separate the manga from the anime/movies or viceversa, and it creates confusion such as in this case where some posters were claiming UI has some awesome build up in the manga, something it really doesn’t have.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:05 am

emperior wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:
LightBing wrote:Bad execution is bad regardless if Mr.Toriyama did it, Toyotarõ or Toei. Ditto for bad ideas.
You can like the same idea in one version and hate it in another, if the version you like executed it differently.

Things aren't black and white. This weird tribalism doesn't do anyone any favors. Let's please worry ourselves about content.

Anyway..., Goku has an idea about Ultra Instinct and the guidance from Whis, Jiren is there to push him to the limit. That's the minimum the manga gave us. That's enough since Goku's a broken prodigy; now I would like something more to give Ultra Instinct greater impact. The Genki Dama stuff, I don't like it and I can't imagine many scenario's where I would like it.

That's still a bit in the future, I'm more curious about the end of the Kefla conflict and what's going to happen with Muten Roshi.
Wait when did Goku know about UI and the guidance from Whis?
It seems like some people should go back and read the manga, because the only build-up Ultra Instinct got there was in chapters 27 and 28, when Whis told Vegeta to learn how to move without thinking and then when Goku saw Beerus using it. That’s all the build-up it had, wow. And half of it was just needed considering how RoF was skipped. So, by the manga’s continuity, the whole concept of moving without thinking is introduced in the very arc where Goku achieves Ultra Instinct.
I wouldn’t exactly call this good writing. I much prefer Goku casually obtaining a power mentioned 90 episodes before, and by his own admission in the latest anime episode he achieved it casually which is why he can’t use it anymore. Not that the manga builds it up, as the little build-up UI has there is mostly damage control, but that’s fine because a form which Goku achieves casually doesn’t necessitate any build-up.
It seems like some fans can’t separate the manga from the anime/movies or viceversa, and it creates confusion such as in this case where some posters were claiming UI has some awesome build up in the manga, something it really doesn’t have.
We aren't saying it has "awesome build up", we are simply saying it's build-up is up to par, something we can't say about the anime. Therefore, when it comes to manga vs anime, we usally may across as praising as really good when it fact it's okay and solid build-up, it's just average is sometimes highlighted greatly when only compared to garbage which was the build-up in super's anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:59 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
emperior wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:
Wait when did Goku know about UI and the guidance from Whis?
It seems like some people should go back and read the manga, because the only build-up Ultra Instinct got there was in chapters 27 and 28, when Whis told Vegeta to learn how to move without thinking and then when Goku saw Beerus using it. That’s all the build-up it had, wow. And half of it was just needed considering how RoF was skipped. So, by the manga’s continuity, the whole concept of moving without thinking is introduced in the very arc where Goku achieves Ultra Instinct.
I wouldn’t exactly call this good writing. I much prefer Goku casually obtaining a power mentioned 90 episodes before, and by his own admission in the latest anime episode he achieved it casually which is why he can’t use it anymore. Not that the manga builds it up, as the little build-up UI has there is mostly damage control, but that’s fine because a form which Goku achieves casually doesn’t necessitate any build-up.
It seems like some fans can’t separate the manga from the anime/movies or viceversa, and it creates confusion such as in this case where some posters were claiming UI has some awesome build up in the manga, something it really doesn’t have.
We aren't saying it has "awesome build up", we are simply saying it's build-up is up to par, something we can't say about the anime. Therefore, when it comes to manga vs anime, we usally may across as praising as really good when it fact it's okay and solid build-up, it's just average is sometimes highlighted greatly when only compared to garbage which was the build-up in super's anime.
But the build up in the manga is the same as in the anime? Did you even read what I wrote?
I don’t see a solid build-up in the manga, Toyotaro just put the RoF’s teaching of Whis cause he skipped it and then he showed Beerus sort of using Ultra Instinct. Do you really call that a solid build-up? There are literally two instances “building up” to UI, same as in the anime which had Goku’s body moving instinctively in episode 5 and the same speech of Whis from RoF. After that, they introduced Omen as a real build up to UI.

Dude you are seriously way too much of a manga fanboy. I am starting to think you didn’t even see the anime, or you did but never paid attention, but the way you aldo talk about the manga it seems like you didn’t even read that properly either. Or maybe you are just trolling.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:02 am

emperior wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:
emperior wrote: It seems like some people should go back and read the manga, because the only build-up Ultra Instinct got there was in chapters 27 and 28, when Whis told Vegeta to learn how to move without thinking and then when Goku saw Beerus using it. That’s all the build-up it had, wow. And half of it was just needed considering how RoF was skipped. So, by the manga’s continuity, the whole concept of moving without thinking is introduced in the very arc where Goku achieves Ultra Instinct.
I wouldn’t exactly call this good writing. I much prefer Goku casually obtaining a power mentioned 90 episodes before, and by his own admission in the latest anime episode he achieved it casually which is why he can’t use it anymore. Not that the manga builds it up, as the little build-up UI has there is mostly damage control, but that’s fine because a form which Goku achieves casually doesn’t necessitate any build-up.
It seems like some fans can’t separate the manga from the anime/movies or viceversa, and it creates confusion such as in this case where some posters were claiming UI has some awesome build up in the manga, something it really doesn’t have.
We aren't saying it has "awesome build up", we are simply saying it's build-up is up to par, something we can't say about the anime. Therefore, when it comes to manga vs anime, we usally may across as praising as really good when it fact it's okay and solid build-up, it's just average is sometimes highlighted greatly when only compared to garbage which was the build-up in super's anime.
But the build up in the manga is the same as in the anime? Did you even read what I wrote?
I don’t see a solid build-up in the manga, Toyotaro just put the RoF’s teaching of Whis cause he skipped it and then he showed Beerus sort of using Ultra Instinct. Do you really call that a solid build-up? There are literally two instances “building up” to UI, same as in the anime which had Goku’s body moving instinctively in episode 5 and the same speech of Whis from RoF. After that, they introduced Omen as a real build up to UI.

Dude you are seriously way too much of a manga fanboy. I am starting to think you didn’t even see the anime, or you did but never paid attention, but the way you aldo talk about the manga it seems like you didn’t even read that properly either. Or maybe you are just trolling.
If you wrote that, then I'm sorry for not seeing that, but that's 100% baloney. The manga has FAR MORE devolpement for UI then super's anime, that's basically fact. Let's compare a throw-away line from whis is some filler episode 90 episodes back, to devolpment of whis telling vegeta about it AFTER he fought berrus (so when it's said is more impactful and thus stays with the audience more plus it is much more recent and can be correlated with the direction of this arc - aka DEVOLPMENT), and not only that. Vegeta said HE'S going to get "there" first, so even when it's brought up, the dialouge is more profound in the manga. 2nd, the manga tells reader to watch the movie RoF so you can sorta say that whis is line you talk about in the anime was still apart of manga continuity. 3RD, we actaully SEE UI in battle from that awesome showcasing of berrus in TOYOTARO BEST CHAPTER (Imo), 28, so people know this technique really will play a big role in this arc, even goku sees it and ask whis about it. 4th, we get further foreshdowing and devolpement when goku wanted to acheive this state and stopped waisting his energy fighting Jiren with hit. At first I thought it was bad writing, but with in restropsect- it's solid foreshdowing.
So no, the anime and manga didn't do it the same. Now if you want to argue devolpement for MUI - now we got a debate since omen did some nice build-up to MUI, but UI form in general? Nah, manga had way more and that's a fact.

Goku's body moving "instinctivley"? what? So anything with the name, instinct you'e lumping that up as "devolpement"? lol, dude stop. Please tell me how goku in episode 5 help build-up UI? You're desperatly reaching at this point.

Name calling? really? REALLY? Alright, my dude. Conversation's over. You're getting too upset. Just because you like the anime a lot and think it gets a bad rap dosen't mean everyone has to be all cuddley with your sentiments. I told you, I think super's TV show is an DISGRACE to dragon ball. It's by far the Worst offcial continuity by far. Now when I discuss it, I try to be as objective as possible because of what need for I to be dogmatic to a certain sect, I tell you things for how it is. I'm not a "manga fanboy" or a "super hater" - Just a guy who gives you my honest opinion. Now I may be sometimes slip and be bias to the manga because it usually does things write so I give it the benefit of the doubt while I may be more stricter on the animer since it usually fails and screw up, but most people are bias for things that consistenly perform up to tast compared to things that consitently DON'T. But anyway, good talk.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:47 pm

emperior wrote:It seems like some people should go back and read the manga, because the only build-up Ultra Instinct got there was in chapters 27 and 28, when Whis told Vegeta to learn how to move without thinking and then when Goku saw Beerus using it. That’s all the build-up it had, wow. And half of it was just needed considering how RoF was skipped. So, by the manga’s continuity, the whole concept of moving without thinking is introduced in the very arc where Goku achieves Ultra Instinct.
I wouldn’t exactly call this good writing. I much prefer Goku casually obtaining a power mentioned 90 episodes before, and by his own admission in the latest anime episode he achieved it casually which is why he can’t use it anymore. Not that the manga builds it up, as the little build-up UI has there is mostly damage control, but that’s fine because a form which Goku achieves casually doesn’t necessitate any build-up.
It seems like some fans can’t separate the manga from the anime/movies or viceversa, and it creates confusion such as in this case where some posters were claiming UI has some awesome build up in the manga, something it really doesn’t have.
The manga's development on the main casters learning Ultra Instinct is better than the anime's cause the manga actually touches upon it twice after ROF unlike the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:26 pm

alakazam^ wrote:Seeing that it came from the "legendary Super Saiyan" person that blocked people pointing out the error, he's very well entitled to doub her fact-checking and editing.
kudo6000 wrote:On the topic of that translated manga timeline chart -- the fact that it uses the term "canonical" raises some questions.
Ok, if it makes you feel better, raise questions about the text. However, the translator didn't put together that Dragonball manga timeline which has the Super manga continuing Toriyama's original only. :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:17 am

Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:32 am

Bergamo wrote:Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
I hope that happens. Having Roshi win will be the most Akira-humor thing you could do.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:56 am

Bergamo wrote:Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
Maybe, but I don't think that will happen. It seems like too big of a plot point. I'm guessing Roshi goes out soon, but if he doesn't then I could see him being the last man standing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jesus-is Lord » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:01 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Bergamo wrote:Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
Maybe, but I don't think that will happen. It seems like too big of a plot point. I'm guessing Roshi goes out soon, but if he doesn't then I could see him being the last man standing.
How'd it effect the plot if roshi wins instead of 17? if both make the same wish, it won't matter. :D

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:19 am

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Bergamo wrote:Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
Maybe, but I don't think that will happen. It seems like too big of a plot point. I'm guessing Roshi goes out soon, but if he doesn't then I could see him being the last man standing.
How'd it effect the plot if roshi wins instead of 17? if both make the same wish, it won't matter. :D
Not a big difference... change the cruiser wish for some panties and ... voila!!!
Will be good a mayor change on the last ones standing, if I remember correctly Toriyama said something about big differences concerning the manga t.o.p ( we already are having some ).
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:39 am

I don't think Roshi could win...

[spoiler]How much of the story was written out in Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft?

Nakamura: The course of events for the Universe 7 warriors was written out in a document from beginning to end. For instance, who Piccolo fights and loses to, and who ultimately survives. Plus the course of the battle between Universe 7 and Universe 11… all of the main points were written out.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... vival-arc/[/spoiler]

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:13 pm

Miracles wrote:I don't think Roshi could win...

[spoiler]How much of the story was written out in Toriyama-sensei‘s original draft?

Nakamura: The course of events for the Universe 7 warriors was written out in a document from beginning to end. For instance, who Piccolo fights and loses to, and who ultimately survives. Plus the course of the battle between Universe 7 and Universe 11… all of the main points were written out.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... vival-arc/[/spoiler]
Okay, but if the elimination order/method is the same, explain Tien getting defeated by Frost, 18 getting eliminated 3rd instead of 5th, and Roshi lasting as long as he has.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 pm

Jesus-is Lord wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Bergamo wrote:Can Roshi win? Is this something that Toyotaro can do?
Maybe, but I don't think that will happen. It seems like too big of a plot point. I'm guessing Roshi goes out soon, but if he doesn't then I could see him being the last man standing.
How'd it effect the plot if roshi wins instead of 17? if both make the same wish, it won't matter. :D
I meant that the person winning the ToP would most likely be something Toriyama decides.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:48 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Jesus-is Lord wrote:
dragon boss z wrote: Maybe, but I don't think that will happen. It seems like too big of a plot point. I'm guessing Roshi goes out soon, but if he doesn't then I could see him being the last man standing.
How'd it effect the plot if roshi wins instead of 17? if both make the same wish, it won't matter. :D
I meant that the person winning the ToP would most likely be something Toriyama decides.
Toriyama said that Toyotaro would be doing things differently, so maybe he gave him a different outline or told him he doesn't need to follow his outline.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:22 pm

Bergamo wrote:Okay, but if the elimination order/method is the same, explain Tien getting defeated by Frost, 18 getting eliminated 3rd instead of 5th, and Roshi lasting as long as he has.
Well, Roshi was eliminated by being a support character, using the mafuba, IIRC. Most likely, his time is coming against Kefla as a support for Gohan.

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