"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 am

Monthly temporary lock in progress:

Chapter 40 of the Dragon Ball Super manga by Toyotaro will be serialized in the November 2018 issue of Shueisha's V-Jump magazine, due on Japanese newsstands September 21. Viz will simultaneously publish their English translation of the chapter for free on their website that same day.

As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. Kanzenshuu does not participate in monetary arrangements to receive stolen intellectual property ahead of release, and will not support these activities by proxy with allowing related discussions. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.

Please note that the locking of this thread does not imply or otherwise allow related discussion in alternate threads.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:04 am

Pretty good chapter I thought and it seems it's moving quicker than I thought.
Still there are some oddities like Dyspo and Toppo being incapable of clearing a few hundred meters in a single bound and Goku activating UIO more easily. Also #18 being incredibly laid back about #17 going for the selfdestruct, but then in a world where you have Dragon Balls, why should really be worried?
I wonder if Toyotaro can finish it all up already in the next chapter, but that would be too rushed, so it's looking like 2 chapters and then in December we'll get Broly. Although they might just release the first part of the Broly adaptation alongside a regular chapter in November's issue.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:30 am

dbgtFO wrote:Pretty good chapter I thought and it seems it's moving quicker than I thought.
Still there are some oddities like Dyspo and Toppo being incapable of clearing a few hundred meters in a single bound and Goku activating UIO more easily. Also #18 being incredibly laid back about #17 going for the selfdestruct, but then in a world where you have Dragon Balls, why should really be worried?
I wonder if Toyotaro can finish it all up already in the next chapter, but that would be too rushed, so it's looking like 2 chapters and then in December we'll get Broly. Although they might just release the first part of the Broly adaptation alongside a regular chapter in November's issue.
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I agree that the distance looked pretty tiny compared to the leaps that fighters do all of the time, but I liked the theme of Jiren turning his back to allies in need. This was a fine way to eliminate the 2 in my opinion.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:36 am

An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate. Dyspo got nothing so that's pretty much everyone wasted. Vegeta's fight with Jiren was good but at this point there's nothing that can save this train wreck of an arc. I tip my non existing hat off to Toei's staff as they really knocked it out of the park compared to whatever this is. These last chapter have shown that Toyotaro simply doesn't care anymore and if that's the case then hopefully he gets replaced soon.
VegettoEX wrote:As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.
If that's the case then you should also lock the movie's topic until December and the Jump Force's topic until February.
Last edited by sintzu on Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DestructoDisc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:38 am

How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:49 am

sintzu wrote:An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate. Dyspo got nothing so that's pretty much everyone wasted. Vegeta's fight with Jiren was good but at this point there's nothing that can save this train wreck of an arc. I tip my non existing hat off to Toei's staff as they really knocked it out of the park compared to whatever this is. These last chapter have shown that Toyotaro simply doesn't care anymore and if that's the case then hopefully he gets replaced soon.
You really tip your hat to Toei? For what?

-Hyping up Toppo as being clouded in an aura of destruction in 125 and then throwing rocks at him in 126

- Saying Toppo needs to charge his energy in 125 and then having him spam Hakai like a regular ki blast in 126

-Having Vegeta get a rage boost 2 minutes after his last rage boost

-An unnecessary flashback and painful reused animation

-Vegeta deciding to sacrifice himself despite the fact that he has the upper hand, because pointless homages trump storytelling

-Ending Toppo vs Vegeta with 2 big circles bumping into each other rather than interesting fight choreography

-Vegeta being drained of his energy for 2 seconds before powering up again to fight Jiren

The manga never hyped up Toppo and pretended he was more important than he was. Toppo was eliminated because he had exhausted himself fighting Vegeta.
Last edited by Bergamo on Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:50 am

So this is Vegeta's version of Evolution. I like the idea of him moving in a different direction from Ultra Instinct, and the mentions that he hasn't been trained. But this just has the same problems Evolution did for the most part, just not being as gratuitous about it. Given how Toyotarou had previously given some real weight to the transformations by explaining them (like complete Super Saiyan Blue), I'd prefer something more than just an epiphany power-up.

The distance thing is definitely odd, but I very much like Jiren consciously abandoning them.

I also really like Jiren getting ticked off at 17's 'death'. I wonder if 17 will be clinging to the underside of the arena? That's a pretty good way to hide him. Maybe he'll just re-appear though, like in the anime.
An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate. Dyspo got nothing so that's pretty much everyone wasted. Vegeta's fight with Jiren was good but at this point there's nothing that can save this train wreck of an arc. I tip my non existing hat off to Toei's staff as they really knocked it out of the park compared to whatever this is. These last chapter have shown that Toyotaro simply doesn't care anymore and if that's the case then hopefully he gets replaced soon.
It was made clear that Goku was off-guard when he lost, when Vegeta and Toppo started fighting Vegeta immediately surprised him with his strength showing that Toppo didn't really know the extent of Blue's power. He was no such unstoppable force, it was pretty clear that he would be inferior to Vegeta in the end.

Toyotarou not caring about the same things as you does not mean that he doesn't care anymore. I'm very surprised by this hyperbolic overreaction. He clearly cares about the universe 7 combatants (the main characters) as each of the remaining characters have had a moment in this chapter about their individual characterizations. Toppo simply never was an important character, he already had plenty of focus.
How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
No way, her attitude in the last episode was WAY worse than this. This isn't shitting on her at all, and actually thought that was an interesting (and deliberate) characterization choice, unlike the anime giving her a really stupid and ill-thought line that had the exact opposite sentiment they wanted to express.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:15 am

So I read the chapter, and the biggest impression I got from my several readings was simply a feeling of absolute eh.

This chapter clearly tried a lot and I appreciate that, but trying, and doing something well, or two completely different things, and that's where I feel this chapter completely falls apart.

Outside of a handful of creative panels, I found it unbelievably boring, and utterly lacking in any sort of real creative merit in its presentation.

I could go on about the numerous, botched handling of things outside of the lacklustre presentation, and focus on the story elements, but the chapter was so dull, I honestly couldn't give a damn.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:17 am

Much better than the last few chapters, though I don't know if I'd call it a good chapter. Vegeta's whole power up really felt like it came outta nowhere. 17's sacrifice also felt like it came outta nowhere and got brushed of like it didn't even happen. We don't end up seeing GoD Toppo (guess I should start calling him 'Top', eh?) which is a bummer since we didn't see enough of that in the anime. Goku just taps into UI again. Don't really know how he did it.

This was one of the few chapters in this arc that actually has some decent action in it. I did like the fight between Vegeta and Jiren. Freeza toying with Toppo and Dyspo was really fun. Love that he was destroying the floating debris around them just to fuck with them. The moment with Jiren that follows is something that I wish the anime had.

Decent chapter. Doesn't really make up for the last few disappointing chapters, but whatever.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:20 am

I don’t think Vegeta’s power up was SSJBE, probably the state before it. It’s probably more powerful than Goku’s SSJBKK though. Toyotarou drew Vegeta with pupils before this arc started, so i’d say he’ll acheive it agaisn’t Jiren.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:22 am

- Chapter 40-

Bad chapter.

Toppo and Dyspo didn't have any interesting fight and both were eliminated in the lamest way possible.
C17 "self-destruct" was a joke too. No emotion at all. C18 didn't even care. WTF?!
I hate how Toyotaro is handling Ultra Instinct. Goku was too expressive in the last chapter when in UI he should be more "emotionless" and he can already use it at will?! There's no difference between this and any other form.

It may not be SBB Evolution, but Vegeta also having a stronger version of normal SSB here surprised me. I thought that was something from Toei, just like SSB+Kaioken.
Unfortunately the manga being black and white kills all the appealing these forms may have.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DestructoDisc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:06 am

Saiga wrote:
How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
No way, her attitude in the last episode was WAY worse than this. This isn't shitting on her at all, and actually thought that was an interesting (and deliberate) characterization choice, unlike the anime giving her a really stupid and ill-thought line that had the exact opposite sentiment they wanted to express.
I would rather take a dumb line that shows she really loves her brother over her not showing any emotions when her brother literally kills himself to save their universe.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:08 am

DestructoDisc wrote:
Saiga wrote:
How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
No way, her attitude in the last episode was WAY worse than this. This isn't shitting on her at all, and actually thought that was an interesting (and deliberate) characterization choice, unlike the anime giving her a really stupid and ill-thought line that had the exact opposite sentiment they wanted to express.
I would rather take a dumb line that shows she really loves her brother over her not showing any emotions when her brother literally kills himself to save their universe.
We both know 17 isn't dead. I'm going to wait and see what Toyotarou is doing with 18, the fact that he clearly singled that behavior out shows there's more to it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:16 am

sintzu wrote:An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate.
VegettoEX wrote:As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.
If that's the case then you should also lock the movie's topic until December and the Jump Force's topic until February.
Iirc Toppo said that it could have gone either way with him and Goku so he was hardly built up as unstoppable. Being a mere “candidate” for GoD doesn't mean much. Most universes top 10s are still pretty weak relative to the others top couple. Your putting too much stock in him he was never built up that much in the manga. He was the Nappa to Jirens Vegeta, there to hype the latter by extension.

---

Maybe the people on those other threads aren't as toxic and tiresome as you people coming here month in month out to bitch about a spin off adaption manga you read for free when you could just rewatch the anime or go do something else instead of killing the buzz of the people who do enjoy the manga.

Something to consider.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:20 am

DestructoDisc wrote:How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
She understands him and respects his ability to make that decision. She knows he can be brought back with the namek dB's and knows he's dead either way if he can't beat Jiren.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DestructoDisc » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:25 am

TobyS wrote:
DestructoDisc wrote:How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
She understands him and respects his ability to make that decision. She knows he can be brought back with the namek dB's and knows he's dead either way if he can't beat Jiren.
Nice headcanon.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:31 am

DestructoDisc wrote:
TobyS wrote:
DestructoDisc wrote:How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.
She understands him and respects his ability to make that decision. She knows he can be brought back with the namek dB's and knows he's dead either way if he can't beat Jiren.
Nice headcanon.
Its not headcanon?

Its something that's meant to come through in the interaction.

Whether you like that portrayal of 18 or not is an entirely different matter though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:31 am

sintzu wrote:If that's the case then you should also lock the movie's topic until December and the Jump Force's topic until February.
A slow drip of official marketing pieces from the companies themselves that can be looked at as individualized wholes is not equivalent to piecemeal selections from stolen inventory.

These are entirely different beasts, you know this, and you're just trying to be difficult. Let's not, please and thank you.
DestructoDisc wrote:Nice headcanon.
This is not a worthwhile post.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:33 am

sintzu wrote:An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate. Dyspo got nothing so that's pretty much everyone wasted. Vegeta's fight with Jiren was good but at this point there's nothing that can save this train wreck of an arc. I tip my non existing hat off to Toei's staff as they really knocked it out of the park compared to whatever this is. These last chapter have shown that Toyotaro simply doesn't care anymore and if that's the case then hopefully he gets replaced soon.
VegettoEX wrote:As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.
If that's the case then you should also lock the movie's topic until December and the Jump Force's topic until February.
1. Toppo was never built up as unstoppable, he beat Goku cause he let his guard down, even Toppo said it could have gone either way. Also even in the anime he lost to Vegetas explosion of ki.

2. Toppo was hanging onto a rock completely exhausted. Freeza had been resting for 10 minutes. Stamina meaning something isn’t a bad thing

3. Agree that it’s disappointing that Dyspo got wasted

4. To your last point that Toyo “doesn’t care”. That comes across as a “The animators are lazy” or a “low budget xd” type of comment. Your subjective opinion on whether the arc is good or not doesn’t mean he doesn’t care

Have a nice day

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheOne » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:52 am

sintzu wrote:An even worse chapter than the last one. Toppo was built up as an unstoppable force as he was easily able to beat Goku yet Vegeta was able to blow him away by just powering up ? How on earth do you waste such an important character ? To make things even worse, Freeza was kicking him around in his base form like he was some fodder, not a destroyer candidate. Dyspo got nothing so that's pretty much everyone wasted. Vegeta's fight with Jiren was good but at this point there's nothing that can save this train wreck of an arc. I tip my non existing hat off to Toei's staff as they really knocked it out of the park compared to whatever this is. These last chapter have shown that Toyotaro simply doesn't care anymore and if that's the case then hopefully he gets replaced soon.
VegettoEX wrote:As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.
If that's the case then you should also lock the movie's topic until December and the Jump Force's topic until February.
Where was it ever portrayed that Goku lost to Toppo easily? I remember them saying the fight could’ve gone either way based off that millisecond. Personally, I have no problem with them knocking Toppo off the way they did. Goku only went SSBKK against Jiren, so Vegeta knocking Toppo out with SSBE easily shouldn’t be an issue since it’s the equivalent to SSBKK. I guess Toppo should’ve gotten a better ending I suppose.

Really looking forward to seeing what transformation they’ll give Vegeta to rival UI.
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