"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:46 pm

This was a lukewarm chapter. The first half is great, the second half not so much.
Like the anime I dislike the ending given to Trunks and Mai.
Nice to see that Toyotarõ remembers that Pilaf is a genius. 10/10 for Zeno-chan falling flat on his face. :lol:

Don't feel like commenting much more since I'll read the whole manga from the start. I believe this product is much better digested whole, cliffhangers don't work since we already knew the details of the plot from the anime. That certainly worked against the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:55 pm

You know, I'm starting to think that maybe waiting for the chapter to be out in English is a smarter move than complaining when leaks come out.

Important things:

1. Unlike the anime, they discuss what going to a future where Trunks and Mai exist already actually means. Now we know why Trunks is okay with doing that.

2. The ending isn't arbitrarily a happy one. Trunks doesn't need to be angsty like his anime counterpart about it, because he recognizes they did the best they could and he managed to save Mai. Bulma, still, brought up the fact that an entire timeline is gone. Good. We're presented with the bad situation, and the characters tell us why it's not so bad. A bit of a bittersweet ending instead of pointless melodrama.

3. Goku and Vegeta's last stand was a great character moment. I love that Vegeta was the one to tell them to leave and he'll hold off the Zamases as long as he could. That's Vegeta and Goku. They're not afraid of self-sacrifice, Vegeta more willing to do so than Goku is also on the money. Good characterization.

4. Zamas having a time machine is both a good callback and also a good tool for drama. In the original depiction of the story, the characters could always just go to the past and he'd not be a threat to them anymore.

Overall, a good chapter and an even better end to this arc. This is the story I wanted when I first saw that image of blue-haired Trunks and his arc in previews.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by micah007 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Pilaf discussing the physics and engineering behind traveling to parallel worlds might be one of my favorite panels in the manga. At least Toyotaro is thinking about the "hows" and "whys" with plot points. Not often Dragon Ball gets writing like this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:11 pm

With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?

Unless in one of the two timelines, things got so jacked up in U7 that Trunks was never born?

Weird....

I wonder where Toyo is going with the U12 thing because it actually is more consistent in the anime unless they explain why there aren't even more timelines...
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:24 pm

TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?

Unless in one of the two timelines, things got so jacked up in U7 that Trunks was never born?

Weird....

I wonder where Toyo is going with the U12 thing because it actually is more consistent in the anime unless they explain why there aren't even more timelines...
The U12 thing is not exclusive to the manga. The anime shows 6 timerings before Trunks and Mai arrive at the other one for the 7th one. One of the other 6 is also based on the whole U12 thing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:25 pm

Cetra wrote:
TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?

Unless in one of the two timelines, things got so jacked up in U7 that Trunks was never born?

Weird....

I wonder where Toyo is going with the U12 thing because it actually is more consistent in the anime unless they explain why there aren't even more timelines...
The U12 thing is not exclusive to the manga. The anime shows 6 timerings before Trunks and Mai arrive at the other one for the 7th one. One of the other 6 is also based on the whole U12 thing.
Hadn't Whis already pre-created it for them at that point? So it showed 6 and we never see the double Trunks ring just the same as the manga?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:27 pm

Cetra wrote:
TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?

Unless in one of the two timelines, things got so jacked up in U7 that Trunks was never born?

Weird....

I wonder where Toyo is going with the U12 thing because it actually is more consistent in the anime unless they explain why there aren't even more timelines...
The U12 thing is not exclusive to the manga. The anime shows 6 timerings before Trunks and Mai arrive at the other one for the 7th one. One of the other 6 is also based on the whole U12 thing.
It's exclusive, the anime never mentions it. They are different continuities.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cetra » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:28 pm

TobyS wrote:
Cetra wrote:
TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?

Unless in one of the two timelines, things got so jacked up in U7 that Trunks was never born?

Weird....

I wonder where Toyo is going with the U12 thing because it actually is more consistent in the anime unless they explain why there aren't even more timelines...
The U12 thing is not exclusive to the manga. The anime shows 6 timerings before Trunks and Mai arrive at the other one for the 7th one. One of the other 6 is also based on the whole U12 thing.
Hadn't Whis already pre-created it for them at that point? So it showed 6 and we never see the double Trunks ring just the same as the manga?
Would not make sense. We see 5 the first time. Then 6 when Gowasu puts a new ring into the box (Beerus kills Zamasu). There was no other ring for what you mean before that so it must come after the Gowasu scene.
It's exclusive, the anime never mentions it. They are different continuities.
That has nothing to do with continuities, whether you like it or not. There are seven timelines and two Gowasu scenes with timerings and that directly flows with the U12 thing. The U12 ring already existed long before. Without U12 there would be too many rings in the box the first time we see the box (their timeline, Trunks, Unseen, U12 guy timeline and Cell). That makes the 5 we see the very first time in the box. Then we see 6 for Beerus kills Zamasu and then obviously after that Trunks and Mai have their "somewhat happy time". The anime and manga are different, yes. But that does not change the amount.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:03 pm

TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?
It's fine. With the original and the one created in U12, three more make five, which was what we saw in Gowasu's box first time. They became six when Beerus killed Zamasu, five again when Zeno erased Trunks's timeline and they are talking about a new one in the end, so the arc ends up with six.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Asura » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:46 pm

Where we once had one horrible ending, we now have two. I guess this idiotic "Trunks timeline gets erased and he goes to a new timeline with copies of himself and Mai" plot point was probably something Toriyama wrote out. The manga had some cool parts but sad to say it was probably worse than the anime. At least the anime had a very interesting villain in the form of Black. In the manga, both Black and Zamasu are just boring, terrible villains, and the multiplying Zamasu's thing just seemed stupid and pointless. At least Goku in the manga acts more like Z Goku, so I appreciate that.

Trunks also looks way too happy with everything that's going on? Like "Welp my entire universe just got destroyed but at least parallel worlds I don't care about are still good. Who's up for some BBQ at Capsule Corp? Beerus my man, throw some shit on the grill"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DHM211 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:52 pm

TKA wrote: 4. Zamas having a time machine is both a good callback and also a good tool for drama. In the original depiction of the story, the characters could always just go to the past and he'd not be a threat to them anymore.
Zamasu is seen invading the past in episode 67.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pannaliciour » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:31 pm

Will wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:I am confuse: Goku said Zeno destroyed the universe and jet we see the time ring disappearing? Did he (Zeno) or did he not destroyed all 12 universes in the future? Also n the anime they are pretty vague about it
He destroyed the entire timeline for some reason. Goku just thought he destroyed the universe
I hate how the ending makes the arc pointless besides now having 2 Future Trunks
The weak timeline link no longer matters because Pilaf fixed it
Trunks no longer has healing powers
Beerus and Whis could've ended everything
And then Trunks goes back in time to undo all the deaths in the first place.

The struggle was pointless. Zamasu was pointless. Oh well, some fun interactions in this chapter. Love Future Mai being a troll. And the knowledge that Beerus can't kill other gods.
Present Gohan being alive doesn't undo the death of Future Gohan.

All the people in Trunks's timeline will always be dead.

Why doesn't he go back before the Androids appear?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Will » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:40 pm

Pannaliciour wrote:
Will wrote:
OLKv3 wrote: He destroyed the entire timeline for some reason. Goku just thought he destroyed the universe
I hate how the ending makes the arc pointless besides now having 2 Future Trunks
The weak timeline link no longer matters because Pilaf fixed it
Trunks no longer has healing powers
Beerus and Whis could've ended everything
And then Trunks goes back in time to undo all the deaths in the first place.

The struggle was pointless. Zamasu was pointless. Oh well, some fun interactions in this chapter. Love Future Mai being a troll. And the knowledge that Beerus can't kill other gods.
Present Gohan being alive doesn't undo the death of Future Gohan.

All the people in Trunks's timeline will always be dead.

Why doesn't he go back before the Androids appear?
Return before the Androids appear? He already did it.
A timeline where everyone is alive including Gohan, Trunks already create it during the Androids arc, it is the "Present timeline" that we follow.

Mai and Trunks want to return to a timeline exactly similar to the timeline they lost.
They want to return just before Black's rampage (and Dabura) and meet exact copies of the people, place they know.
This future timeline bis won't be their timeline, but it will be the closet to it, an exact copy of their home, a timeline where all the same events happens (before Black and Dabura.)

The mangas really miss the drama that was in the anime.
Not introducing character in the future in the mangas was a mistake for me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sailorspazz » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:44 pm

To their credit(?), Viz actually responded to my issue with their translation of "immortal" to "god", and indicated it could be changed for the release: https://twitter.com/VIZMedia/status/888414582691082240

Image

Of course, that's not a clear promise on their end for this particular issue, just a statement in general that things get "cleaned up", so here's hoping they actually fix it!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:53 pm

sailorspazz wrote:To their credit(?), Viz actually responded to my issue with their translation of "immortal" to "god", and indicated it could be changed for the release: https://twitter.com/VIZMedia/status/888414582691082240

Image

Of course, that's not a clear promise on their end for this particular issue, just a statement in general that things get "cleaned up", so here's hoping they actually fix it!
This is expected,Viz will fix their error like vegeta calling goku by his name twice and this one
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:00 pm

I only found out of place the off-hand, very casual annotation that the entire friggin' timeline has been destroyed. I don't remember if the undertone was in the anime as well or if the anime limited itself to Trunks' universe being wiped out, but it'd mean that they sacrificed an entire multiverse full of - again - friggin' innocent universes to kill Zamas. Okay, he was a multiversal threat at that point, but...

I suppose that to save the credibility of the happy ending there's the justification that most characters should have not have realized it yet, but it does feel like a small-yet-dire misstep on Toyo's part. Pretty sure he probably went to go along with the anime's rendition of Trunks' universe being destroyed, not twelve universes in one single timeline.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:14 pm

Unfortunately, I did not like the end of the Arc, both in the anime and in the manga.
Unless Trunks reappears again, it was not a decent ending for the character who had shown so much hope and fought so hard to protect his world.

But overall, I liked the information we had in this chapter.
In the manga, Zamasu's plan really was more expansive. It covered all the Timelines, even the past. Stealing the time machine from an advanced civilization of the 12th Universe is interesting and makes sense.

I liked the '' sacrifice '' that Goku and Vegeta were willing to make to save the World of Trunks,
But I wish Trunks himself would do that and try to fight alongside his friends, it would be something better and more symbolic.


It was good to note Pilaf's intelligence. The interaction of the characters was also good.

I liked the new information in this chapter, even if it was not a good ending and it was not so dramatic (though Trunks here speaks openly about it, and accepting that it was the only way to defeat Zamasu)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:07 pm

Basako wrote:
TobyS wrote:With this universe 12 time travel thing being exclusive to the manga....

Shouldn't Trunks have created 3 (unseen, Cell, Trunks) timelines spinning off both of those?
It's fine. With the original and the one created in U12, three more make five, which was what we saw in Gowasu's box first time. They became six when Beerus killed Zamasu, five again when Zeno erased Trunks's timeline and they are talking about a new one in the end, so the arc ends up with six.
I know it matches now with the number of rings, what I meant here was this:

Original Timeline A. Unaltered until year 'x'.
U12 guy splits the timeline during year 'x'.
We now have two timelines A and B.

In timeline A in universe 7 during year 'y' Trunks/Cell/Trunks go back in time creating an Unseen, Cell's, and Trunks' timeline.

In Timeline B in universe 7 during year 'y' Trunks/Cell/Trunks go back in time creating an Unseen, Cell's, and Trunks' timeline.

This should be 8 universes right of the bat. Two at first and then two sets of three due to two Cell Sagas occurring... It's a problem because U12 stuff happened the earliest.

The only explanation is the spin off green U12 timeline changes it's multiverse so much the events of DB never occur in U7. But that's unusual because TL's are usually created to fix something... If we are the real silver ringed timeline and not a green one.... it has to be that way round. :?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sailorspazz » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:05 pm

I've been sort of apathetic to the manga version for some time, and the final chapter of this arc just continued that feeling. There was some cool stuff like Gokuu and Vegeta being ready to fight until they died against the army of Metal Coolas Merged Zamasus (oh, Toyo and his references :roll: ), but my overall assessment is that it just didn't capture the emotion of this arc like the anime did. It's pretty shocking that Trunks didn't seem to care much about his timeline getting destroyed. At least in the anime he showed some tears and frustration over not being able to save anyone...I guess the manga didn't have any other survivors hanging around for him to get sad over, but shouldn't he still have some negative reaction to the world he knew getting destroyed? It was treated too much as a happy ending when it was actually more bittersweet.

I've noticed a trend that people who like Black and Zamasu's characters prefer the anime's portrayal of them, while people who don't care for them like that they became whiny cowards in the manga :think: They didn't have the personal connection to Gokuu, didn't have that wonderful hug teamwork and synchronized battles/speeches, didn't have the powerful voice work of Miki and Nozawa to leave us in awe of their badassness (I suppose that can't be helped, lol)...I just can't imagine if I'd read the manga first that I would've become such a fan of these characters as I did from watching the series.

I'm sorry, I know this thread isn't supposed to be about comparing the two versions, but I think most of my issues stem from already liking how things were done in one medium, and then later seeing another version that made things less compelling, in my opinion.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:40 pm

I've never gotten the "lack of emotion" complaint. I mean, I do agree that the manga doesn't have as much emotion as in the anime, but Dragon Ball isn't a feelsy show to begin with, and what the anime did was very un-DB in that respect. Outside of the latest chapter, which went a bit far in not having any emotion over the death of an entire multiverse, the down time in Toyotaro's rendition of this arc is more or less in-line with what one would've expected from the original manga.
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