DHM211 wrote:
Zamasu is seen invading the past in episode 67.
Not my point.
Also, the threat that Zamas-in-the-sky posed had never even been established. What does Zamas in the sky do? Is it a bad thing because his laughing is annoying? We don't know.
We're told explicitly and have SEEN what physical Zamas could do in the past.
Therefore, it is a more tangible threat and a better dramatic tool than what was presented in the other rendition of the story.
You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.
Even better it sort of gives reason to his appearance in the next arc (him mentioning nobody contacts him in fighting) and sets up as to why Future Trunks leaves in the manga. Props to Herms for the translation in tweets.
That's wonderful. And it plays in perfectly as to why Future Trunks decides to go to another timeline. Good job, Toyotaro.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Even better it sort of gives reason to his appearance in the next arc (him mentioning nobody contacts him in fighting) and sets up as to why Future Trunks leaves in the manga. Props to Herms for the translation in tweets.
Maybe nobody calls because ya keep flip flopping on whether you will fight or not XD
But cool to see Gohan appear at all. But he shows up here, and not to say goodbye at the end?
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Even better it sort of gives reason to his appearance in the next arc (him mentioning nobody contacts him in fighting) and sets up as to why Future Trunks leaves in the manga. Props to Herms for the translation in tweets.
Maybe nobody calls because ya keep flip flopping on whether you will fight or not XD
But cool to see Gohan appear at all. But he shows up here, and not to say goodbye at the end?
Well, this seems to be a bonus chapter or something like that, so him not appearing in the story proper but being there at the end would be weird.
DHM211 wrote:
Zamasu is seen invading the past in episode 67.
Not my point.
Also, the threat that Zamas-in-the-sky posed had never even been established. What does Zamas in the sky do? Is it a bad thing because his laughing is annoying? We don't know.
We're told explicitly and have SEEN what physical Zamas could do in the past.
Therefore, it is a more tangible threat and a better dramatic tool than what was presented in the other rendition of the story.
Zamasu-in-the-sky threat was established, he was shooting huge beam, in this form he literally killed all humans remaning on earth, and resisted combined attack from Goku, Vegeta and Trunks.
And he was starting to appear in the present.
Last edited by Will on Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Will wrote:
Zamasu-in-the-sky threat was established, he was shooting huge beam, in this form he literally killed all humans remaning on earth
Fair enough.
That's still bad though. There weren't many mortals left and they were all in the same area. In addition, he did nothing after that but remain laughing.
My point is that we saw throughout the arc what just 2 Zamas can do, and we're told explicitly what an army of them will do. In essence, I'm saying the manga did it better by giving us what we'd seen before (Merged Zamas), but in much greater quantities rather than create a whole new plot point (sky Zamas) and then needing to establish why it's dangerous (killing the remaining mortals) and then doing nothing with it.
You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.
dbzfan7 wrote:
But cool to see Gohan appear at all. But he shows up here, and not to say goodbye at the end?
Headcanon, whenever Gohan is missing in Super, he is in an important conference or something like that. Like in the Champa arc.
Might as well just call it a smoke break
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Will wrote:
Zamasu-in-the-sky threat was established, he was shooting huge beam, in this form he literally killed all humans remaning on earth
Fair enough.
That's still bad though. There weren't many mortals left and they were all in the same area. In addition, he did nothing after that but remain laughing.
No it's wrong, besides the kids/the rebellion and Future Yajirobe in the house close to the fight, he also killed Future Androids 8's survivor group in a completly different location on the planet and the turtle at Kame house.
And he also repelled Goku/Vegeta/Trunks's combined attack.
It's nice to see gohan appear since that's what a lot of ppl seemed to miss the most in the manga version. Look at that! We even get a glimpse of trunks' true emotions before he covers it up with his usual hopeful demeanor. I also like that gohan unwittingly inspired trunks to want to make a better future again only so gohan can see it one day.
OLKv3 wrote:Toyo Gohan is training in Bulma's gravity room? On his own? Huh.
That's a really nice tidbit. It's going to come in handy when the Tournament Of Power rolls around and we see how strong Gohan has gotten.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
OLKv3 wrote:Toyo Gohan is training in Bulma's gravity room? On his own? Huh.
That's a really nice tidbit. It's going to come in handy when the Tournament Of Power rolls around and we see how strong Gohan has gotten.
It will be handy, but lavenda would need to be pretty darn powerful if he ties with a trained gohan here as well
I'm guessing Gohan's gains won't be anything great.
I also find it funny that Gohan lampshades the fact that nobody contacts him when there's a major fight happening. Like, he would have taken part in the Champa arc tournament if Goku didn't immediately brush him off so brazenly.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
OLKv3 wrote:Toyo Gohan is training in Bulma's gravity room? On his own? Huh.
That's a really nice tidbit. It's going to come in handy when the Tournament Of Power rolls around and we see how strong Gohan has gotten.
It will be handy, but lavenda would need to be pretty darn powerful if he ties with a trained gohan here as well
I think it would be awesome if the trio were stronger in this version like bergamo is relative to ssg or ssb goku meanwhile gohan uses ss2 in his figth against lavender
Last edited by The gr on Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lord Beerus wrote:
I also find it funny that Gohan lampshades the fact that nobody contacts him when there's a major fight happening. Like, he would have taken part in the Champa arc tournament if Goku didn't immediately brush him off so brazenly.
Yeah, this doesn't make gohan look like an indecisive child who can't stick to his own word or remember his lessons like the anime made him seem like..
Here, Gohan is right there, bewildered why nobody brothers to contact him, ready to help like he always is..
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
Lord Beerus wrote:
That's a really nice tidbit. It's going to come in handy when the Tournament Of Power rolls around and we see how strong Gohan has gotten.
It will be handy, but lavenda would need to be pretty darn powerful if he ties with a trained gohan here as well
I think it would be awesome if the trio were stronger in this version like bergamo is relative to ssg or ssb goku
I think that would create more issues. Especially if there are characters that are much stronger than Bergamo in the tournament, which there most certainly will be.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:
That's a really nice tidbit. It's going to come in handy when the Tournament Of Power rolls around and we see how strong Gohan has gotten.
It will be handy, but lavenda would need to be pretty darn powerful if he ties with a trained gohan here as well
I'm guessing Gohan's gains won't be anything great.
I also find it funny that Gohan lampshades the fact that nobody contacts him when there's a major fight happening. Like, he would have taken part in the Champa arc tournament if Goku didn't immediately brush him off so brazenly.
No, Gohan cancelled that on his own because he was busy with a conference. He wanted to help with Zamasu, but don't know what good he would've done
Lord Beerus wrote:
I think that would create more issues. Especially if there are characters that are much stronger than Bergamo in the tournament, which there most certainly will be.
I don't see the issue with that if we have people like toppo and jiren and goku is bound to beat one of them at least and I want to see ssg again
