"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Bergamo]

Ikari is not the same as SS2. Gohan was the most powerful fighter, he has been known to have insane potential, and he had been training for years in the time chamber. All of his efforts and his potential culminated in his awakening to SS2. Trunks got angry and then Jumped from SS2 level to SSB level.

About your contradictions...
1. To use the time rings in the manga, you need to be wearing a Kaioshin's portara.
2. No it doesn't.
3. Trunks never finished his Kaioshin's apprentice training because Babidi showed up sooner than expected.
4. Characters don't usually fight at 100% power. 100% has always been a distinction, like 100% Frieza and Full Power Super Saiyan.
5. Goku didn't erase Zamas from existence. No contradiction here.
6. The different bodies is literally the point of the fusion. Besides, this is explained about as much as Infinite Zamas in the anime.

Trunks has been fighting Black for an entire year and has more potential than Gohan.

1.- No. It was stated you actually need to be a Kaioshin. Zamasu was not.
2.- Yes it does. It makes Black millions of times stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta.
3.- Incorrect. It was never said it didn't finish it.
4.- You don't get it. How is Blue Goku fighting with a fusion of himself with another person evenly? Vegeta never said complete Blue is stronger only that it doesn't get weaker with time, fighting at 100% constatly.
5.- He was erasing him.
6.- I see nothing wrong with Infinite Zamasu in the anime.

Trunks does not have more potential than Gohan. He is never shown doing anything any better than the full blooded Saiyans, and if he had Gohan's potential, then why didn't he defeat Cell? He trained hard and was angry, so why didn't he turn SS2?

All of your complaints are explained in the manga. Read the manga before commenting in the Manga Discussion Thread.

[jeffbr92]

Toyotaro really seems to have it in for Gohan. First he guilts Trunks into going back to the future timeline instead of staying in the present, now this.

Well, he always been kinda of a mediocre writer.

[Bergamo]

Toyotaro really seems to have it in for Gohan. First he guilts Trunks into going back to the future timeline instead of staying in the present, now this.

Well, he always been kinda of a mediocre writer.

Makes fun of Gohan in a bonus chapter = Mediocre writer

Makes sense.

[superfan2024]

Why can’t you all just stop? If you didn’t like the fucking GAG chapter, then just don’t like it. No need to call Toyo these phrases. No need to argue about which iteration of Super is better than the other. It’s just mindless discussion going on every single time Toyo releases some new story content.

Reading some of these responses makes me feel ashamed to be apart of this community sometimes. It’s just pathetic. Instead of endlessly talking about DB/Z/GT for years and years, Tori and Toyo have presented us with new content and yet you all persist to complain? Why? What’s the point? If you don’t like it, then don’t start this negativity and start these mindless discussions.

Sorry for sounding like a toddler.

[theTUN]

As someone who isn't a fan of the manga, I think this is totally fine for a filler bonus chapter.

[ZombieVito]

Ikari is not the same as SS2. Gohan was the most powerful fighter, he has been known to have insane potential, and he had been training for years in the time chamber. All of his efforts and his potential culminated in his awakening to SS2. Trunks got angry and then Jumped from SS2 level to SSB level.

About your contradictions...
1. To use the time rings in the manga, you need to be wearing a Kaioshin's portara.
2. No it doesn't.
3. Trunks never finished his Kaioshin's apprentice training because Babidi showed up sooner than expected.
4. Characters don't usually fight at 100% power. 100% has always been a distinction, like 100% Frieza and Full Power Super Saiyan.
5. Goku didn't erase Zamas from existence. No contradiction here.
6. The different bodies is literally the point of the fusion. Besides, this is explained about as much as Infinite Zamas in the anime.

Trunks has been fighting Black for an entire year and has more potential than Gohan.

1.- No. It was stated you actually need to be a Kaioshin. Zamasu was not.
2.- Yes it does. It makes Black millions of times stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta.
3.- Incorrect. It was never said it didn't finish it.
4.- You don't get it. How is Blue Goku fighting with a fusion of himself with another person evenly? Vegeta never said complete Blue is stronger only that it doesn't get weaker with time, fighting at 100% constatly.
5.- He was erasing him.
6.- I see nothing wrong with Infinite Zamasu in the anime.

Trunks does not have more potential than Gohan. He is never shown doing anything any better than the full blooded Saiyans, and if he had Gohan's potential, then why didn't he defeat Cell? He trained hard and was angry, so why didn't he turn SS2?

All of your complaints are explained in the manga. Read the manga before commenting in the Manga Discussion Thread.

Trunks surpassed Boo arc Ultimate Gohan in base. He grew over 50 times stronger in just 3 years training alone and surpassed Future Gohan. I don't get how you can say he doesn't have more potential.

No. They are not. I honestly wonder if you even read the manga.

[Lord Beerus]

I thought that the bonus chapter was fine... if you look at it from the standpoint of it being a throwaway gag chapter. In that regard, I thought it was pretty fun. I mean, it really is the sort of side story where you should turn your brain off. Because trying to apply any logic to what happens, result in everything about this bonus chapter falling apart.

But...

If we are supposed to take this bonus chapter literally and an actual possible explanation for #17 becoming stronger than he was and as reason for Goten and Trunks having do something on the island... it's... pretty terrible.

Like... getting an explanation is fine. But the explanation itself is awful. It's confusing, convoluted and leads to more questions than actual answers. And quite frankly, I would rather take no explanation that leads me to wild mass guessing over a bad explanation that leaves me even more perplexed than before.

[Sora Saiyan]

I think people would be lying if they said they are perfectly happy with it

I'm perfectly happy with it. It's a short, cute gag chapter that shows what the kids were up to while on the island. It's not at all dissimilar in style to Toriyama's Neko Majin, another gag manga that raises even more questions than it answers when taken more seriously than it needs to be. There's a reason it's not a part of the mainline chapters.

As always, people are missing the point.

Well clearly I thought wrong. I just guess it depends how people want to look at it. Personally it can be made to fit, so I don’t mind it. I can’t quite tie in Neko Makin with DB because of all the shit that just flat out couldn’t happen (if I’m remembering it right), but I’m happy with trying to make this work out because it isn’t flat out impossible, and it can solve a niggling issue I have.

Edit: Now of course as just a gag moment it works perfectly fine, and in that instance there obviously won’t be any issues. Now some people like to rationalise the gag moments to an extent, and modern DB hasn’t actually had gags at this level so some people obviously won’t like this. In fact I can’t really remember a gag quite like this since before DB became more serious in nature.

[jeffbr92]

Makes fun of Gohan in a bonus chapter = Mediocre writer
Makes sense.

I don't care about Gohan, what I care is good storytelling and Toyotaro has been a hit or a miss with this manga. These domesticated Cell Juniors is one of the most random stuff to come out from DB.

[Bergamo]

Trunks has been fighting Black for an entire year and has more potential than Gohan.

1.- No. It was stated you actually need to be a Kaioshin. Zamasu was not.
2.- Yes it does. It makes Black millions of times stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta.
3.- Incorrect. It was never said it didn't finish it.
4.- You don't get it. How is Blue Goku fighting with a fusion of himself with another person evenly? Vegeta never said complete Blue is stronger only that it doesn't get weaker with time, fighting at 100% constatly.
5.- He was erasing him.
6.- I see nothing wrong with Infinite Zamasu in the anime.

Trunks does not have more potential than Gohan. He is never shown doing anything any better than the full blooded Saiyans, and if he had Gohan's potential, then why didn't he defeat Cell? He trained hard and was angry, so why didn't he turn SS2?

All of your complaints are explained in the manga. Read the manga before commenting in the Manga Discussion Thread.

Trunks surpassed Boo arc Ultimate Gohan in base. He grew over 50 times stronger in just 3 years training alone and surpassed Future Gohan. I don't get how you can say he doesn't have more potential.

No. They are not. I honestly wonder if you even read the manga.

It's not my job to explain the DBS Manga to people who are only looking for something to hate. Also, I frequent a thread devoted to the DBS Manga and you think I've never read it? You're the one who's not making any sense.

Makes fun of Gohan in a bonus chapter = Mediocre writer
Makes sense.

I don't care about Gohan, what I care is good storytelling and Toyotaro has been a hit or a miss with this manga. These domesticated Cell Juniors is one of the most random stuff to come out from DB.

It's supposed to be random and not make sense. If it was an important part of the story, it wouldn't be localized within a gag bonus chapter.

[Marlowe89]

Now of course as just a gag moment it works perfectly fine, and in that instance there obviously won’t be any issues.

That's the thing; they're not mutually exclusive. It works as a gag and it also works as a possible explanation for 17's strength. The people suggesting that you can't have both obviously aren't aware of the historical precedent set by Toriyama's writing style in the past, including Dragon Ball.

The fuss is specifically over why a bunch of Cell Juniors would appear on the island without anyone's knowledge in the first place, but that has no bearing whatsoever on the idea that 17's power would spike partially because he trained with them, so it's irrelevant. It's also the entire point of the gag -- are the Juniors "real" or "fake", and where the hell did they come from? -- which is clearly expressed in the chapter's dialogue.

I... I can't with this community sometimes. I just can't.

[TKA]

I think people would be lying if they said they are perfectly happy with it

I'm perfectly happy with it.

It gives an explanation for a pretty obvious question that needed to be answered. It is also pretty funny.

Of course I'm OK with Ikari. It made Trunks matter on his own arc instead of ending up like this:

There's a lot to unpack here. I'll do it in list form so it's easier to track.

1. This is not Trunks' arc. This is an arc of Dragonball Super. Trunks is a character whose sole job is to push the arc along.

2. Fights don't determine how well a character is developed or presented. If so, Broly is one of the best characters in the franchise. I think many people would disagree with that. Trunks wasn't useless at all in the manga, and this nonsense is only perpetuated because he wasn't directly fighting at the end.

3. What matters most for characters isn't the fact that they contribute to fights; it's how they contribute to the plot.

4. If characters can pull abilities and transformations from hammerspace and invalidate whatever threat they're up against, why should I care about whatever that character is going through? Manga Trunks is established as having healing powers, and that's what he makes use of. Anime Trunks pulls a transformation out of nowhere with no foreshadowing, it's never explained and none of the characters question it. This is anathema to drama.

[Sora Saiyan]

Now of course as just a gag moment it works perfectly fine, and in that instance there obviously won’t be any issues.

That's the thing; they're not mutually exclusive. It works as a gag and it also works as a possible explanation for 17's strength. The people suggesting that you can't have both obviously aren't aware of the historical precedent set by Toriyama's writing style in the past, including Dragon Ball.

The fuss is specifically over why a bunch of Cell Juniors would appear on the island without anyone's knowledge in the first place, but that has no bearing whatsoever on the idea that 17's power would spike partially because he trained with them, so it's irrelevant. It's also the entire point of the gag -- are the Juniors "real" or "fake", and where the hell did they come from? -- which is clearly expressed in the chapter's dialogue.

I... I can't with this community sometimes. I just can't.

Yep, I basically agree as you can probably tell going by the whole of my previous posts on the matter. It really isn’t impossible to work around, and clears up something that people probably speculated; can Cell jr’s regenerate? Again there can be issues, but they can be worked around easily enough. So overall I was happy with this with what it cleared up.

[Gokitalo]

1.- No. It was stated you actually need to be a Kaioshin. Zamasu was not.

The Kaioshin earrings pretty clearly possess an important symbolic value: that's why Gowasu gave Zamasu one of his rings when they time-travelled together. It seems wearing the Potara earrings makes the Time Rings "recognize" them as Kaioshin, which is why Goku Black and Zamasu were able to travel through time. Not saying the Time Rings are sentient, of course, but there's probably some sort of relationship between them and the Potara forged by Kaioshin magic. That's no doubt why Zamasu took Gowasu's earrings in the first place: without them, he and Black probably wouldn't have been able to use the Time Rings.

[jeffbr92]

It's supposed to be random and not make sense. If it was an important part of the story, it wouldn't be localized within a gag bonus chapter.

Wut, so you mean we shouldn't consider that as part of the story at all?

[Bergamo]

It's supposed to be random and not make sense. If it was an important part of the story, it wouldn't be localized within a gag bonus chapter.

Wut, so you mean we shouldn't consider that as part of the story at all?

It's literally not part of the story. It doesn't have any bearing on what happens in the ToP, so it's really just a short bit of extra content for fans. It's really no different than the average Toriyama interview.

[jplaya2023]

So are we not getting a real chapter since we got a "gag" chapter or whatever.

[Bergamo]

So are we not getting a real chapter since we got a "gag" chapter or whatever.

Chapter comes out on the 21st. Same as always.

[Meshack]

#17 calls them fake Cell Juniors because he found those 7 on the island, they look exactly like the ones we know and they're maybe as strong as them. The narration then talks about Cell being able to regenerate if his nucleus is intact and that, if the Cell Juniors had the same ability, these ones might be the real thing. However, "you can choose on what you believe in".

Also, it wasn't "confirmed" that was how #17 got so strong. Kuririn put 2 and 2 together but we don't know if his conclusion equals 4 or 5.

No idea why people are freaking out about a throwaway gag chapter.

1. It's not a gag chapter.

2. The narrator says the Cell Jrs. regenerated.

[jplaya2023]

#17 calls them fake Cell Juniors because he found those 7 on the island, they look exactly like the ones we know and they're maybe as strong as them. The narration then talks about Cell being able to regenerate if his nucleus is intact and that, if the Cell Juniors had the same ability, these ones might be the real thing. However, "you can choose on what you believe in".

Also, it wasn't "confirmed" that was how #17 got so strong. Kuririn put 2 and 2 together but we don't know if his conclusion equals 4 or 5.

No idea why people are freaking out about a throwaway gag chapter.

1. It's not a gag chapter.

2. The narrator says the Cell Jrs. regenerated.

it's a good thing that in super the anime is canon this time and not the manga because them regenerating makes no lick of sense.they clearly exploded when gohan killed them all.