"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Omniboy]

While we are on the topic of plagiarism, I have to save that I am very disappointed in Toyotaro. I never minded when he would use compostion and panels from the original DB manga because:

1. They are from the same franchise, and were approved by Toriyama himself since he overlooks the vast majority of it. ( Although when looking at them I can automatically tell how much better Toriyama is at making his art stick out and have more presence to them.)

2. It doesn't look like he ever outright traces, as a lot of the time he changes the pose and angle in some way.

3. Sometimes they are fitting, like when Dabura kills Kibito in future Trunks timeline, and it matches up with the panel of when Kibito is killed by Dabura in the same manner. It's a neat call back and makes sense, given that both events takes place around the same time in their respective timeline.

That drawing of Goku fits none of the criteria listed above, and is outright plagiarism, and I thought he was better than that. If he is having hard time envisioning and coming up with poses, there are computer programs out there that have 3D models that you can pose like Clip Studio Paint and Design Doll (the second one being free and easier to pose as well.) It sucks because I really like the guy's artstyle, but he really needs to learn that you shouldn't become too reliant on other people's work. I don't think that he's a bad guy, and I understand that with a hasty and grueling work schedule , that it's hard, but that is no excuse for tracing some stranger's work.

[batistabus]

The original artist behind that Captain America panel responded. Basically, he said he's "flattered" but he doesn't know much about legal things so he doesn't know how to proceed.

Do you have a link to the comment? I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Plagiarism of any form is a huge no-no. I imagine the fandom would explode if Toyotarō actually got fired. I don’t think it’ll happen, but he can’t continue this behavior.

[RichardKing2]

The original artist behind that Captain America panel responded. Basically, he said he's "flattered" but he doesn't know much about legal things so he doesn't know how to proceed.

Do you have a link to the comment? I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998956089310830592

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998958469100093440

[ToshioWrites]

Nowhere in that tweet does he mention legal things. He said "its ehh". Whoever said he didn't know how to proceed can't read

[HeroR]

The original artist behind that Captain America panel responded. Basically, he said he's "flattered" but he doesn't know much about legal things so he doesn't know how to proceed.

For reference, if I did this when I was in school (Graphic major), it would be at best an automatic F since it’s a piece of work I’m getting paid or credit for commercial use (worked with real clients in my Junior and Senior year).

[Omniboy]

Ok , so I guess heles is talking about Ribriannes planet like the beauty people planet with lots of not that beauty planets instead of just one planet being not beauty .
At some point I thought that Beerus was calling heles planet ugly
It’s hard to interpretate, I guess translation doesn’t help

Actually that's not what it means. Fat and chubby is seen as attractive in Ribrianne's planet, as opposed to the rest of the universe where slender is seen as beautiful. Krillin is a short noseless bald guy, yet in Ribranne's world he would be seen as handsome. Her planet just has opposite beauty standards. What's unattractive to us, is attractive in Ribrianne's planet. Heles would be seen as ugly in Ribriannes world but beautiful to the rest of the universe, hence the "that planet is an exception."

Those two slim girls that accompanied riabrianne agreed about her beauty canon, one of them said that kuririn looks are beyond perfection, and they don’t seem to be from Ribriannes planet .

That doesn't mean that they aren't seen as attractive in her planet as well. They probably are. It's just likely that they are not considered beautiful. The sarcastic remark from Beerus doesn't suggest that Heles would be seen as ugly, just that she would be seen as "not all that", as in average looking. Heles ego derives out the belief that she is the most beautiful being in the universe, but being seen as nothing special or unique on Ribriannes planet, kind of damages her ego.

[RichardKing2]

Nowhere in that tweet does he mention legal things. He said "its ehh". Whoever said he didn't know how to proceed can't read

"Whoever"? M8, just say "Redheat can't read" instead of sub posting, as he's the one who made that specific comment.

[ToshioWrites]

He’s flattered

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/99 ... 11265?s=21

[Chuquita]

Plagiarism in the professional sphere is wrong. If you're a young kid at home tracing stuff to learn how to draw that's fine, but even those young kids improve to the point where they no longer need to trace, because tracing is like training wheels for drawing. Eventually they gotta come off and you have to pedal that bike under your own power.

I can't excuse someone getting paid for something they traced, but I doubt anything will come of it. They'll sweep it under the rug and Toyotaro will keep his job. They won't be able to replace him on this short a notice and if they do I can't imagine it being until after the arc is over so they can make a clean break. Yamamoto plagiarized from a bunch of different sources but only got busted once he tried plagiarizing from James Cameron's Avatar, am I remembering that right? Are the Marvel comics also owned by Disney now? Or just the movies? If the comics aren't I can see Toyo getting away with it, but if Disney gets upset he might actually face retribution. Seeing as the artist themself doesn't appear upset about it, I think Toyotaro's safe.

[RedHeat]

Nowhere in that tweet does he mention legal things. He said "its ehh". Whoever said he didn't know how to proceed can't read

A bit overzealous on my part, but here's what he said:

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998958469100093440

Oh, and he directly calls it tracing here: https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998964778755211265

[prince212]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that

[ToshioWrites]

Calling it tracing which it is =/= he's thinking about legal action. I highly doubt he gives that much of a fuck and honestly I don't either cause you know we already knew this about Toyo. If he's fired, thats fine . If not, idc

[Doctor.]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that

Even the original artist is calling it tracing:

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998964778755211265

[KinguKurimuzon]

I guess this was bound to happen eventually. If you're using as many references as Toyotaro does, it's not farfetched to think that one day you'll get lazy or be in a hurry and start tracing. I hope he just gets a slap on the wrist, but considering Dragon Ball's history with plagiarism, I'm not sure the powers that be will make it that easy. What was the context of that Goku drawing anyway? It looks pretty damned sketchy to be coming from the manga.

[KinguKurimuzon]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Sorry for double posting, but that image isn't lined up properly. This is a better example.

The legs (and even the arm) aren't 1:1, but the Captain America drawing has clearly been traced over.

[Omniboy]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Okay so at least it isn't traced. But still, he should cautious about redrawing other people's poses. Especially when it comes to completely redrawing the work of other people from different franchises. And I know for a fact that people are not going to see the picture that you posted so people are still going to think he traced, which makes him still look really bad in the eyes of other. It's fine to sometimes use reference from other people's work, but then there's completely copying the composition and pose without their permission, or with out it being relevant to what's actually going on.

[prince212]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that

Even the original artist is calling it tracing:

https://twitter.com/dextersoy/status/998964778755211265

He just want a minute of glory , watching the comparison and judge yourself. Is that a trace ?
A lied said 1 million times doesn’t mean is truth
If you think so , that’s the worse trace ever and the transparent paper was moving all the time

[Doctor.]

He just want a minute of glory , watching the comparison and judge yourself. Is that a trace ?
A lied said 1 million times doesn’t mean is truth
If you think so , that’s the worse trace ever and the transparent paper was moving all the time

I don't think a comic book artist that has drawn for DC and Marvel needs a "minute of glory".

You keep posting an unaligned image and have been proven wrong above. It absolutely is traced. Rotating the arm position and redrawing the legs doesn't mean the torso, head position and hand aren't traced.

[prince212]

Concerning those who claim that toyotaro trace to make the vjump cover
This is not traced , just take it as a reference . Only the right fingers seems traced in th original sketch and that was not in the final draw . I don’t like it , but nobody knows what’s behind , rush is behind for sure . It’s to easy to pour shit on Toyotaro , and he’s not putting the things so hard for that . I’m sure that if he has 3-4 days to draw that cover he might do something 100% original , but he doesn’t have that
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Okay so at least it isn't traced. But still, he should cautious about redrawing other people's poses. Especially when it comes to completely redrawing the work of other people from different franchises. And I know for a fact that people are not going to see the picture that you posted so people are still going to think he traced, which makes him still look really bad in the eyes of other. It's fine to sometimes use reference from other people's work, but then there's completely copying the reference and compistion without their permission, or with out it relevant to what's actually going on.

Agree , he shouldn’t do that cover that is not even a part of his dragon ball manga , Shueisha has more artist that should do those things , he’s got enough with drawing 2 pages of the manga per day