"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Torturephile » Tue May 22, 2018 5:51 pm

Doctor. wrote:I don't see any trace either in this image. Guess we were all wrong.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
That made my day.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Tue May 22, 2018 5:57 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:All this drama for something so little.
Plagiarism is a big deal.
I feel you're getting such a kick out of this.


I just watched Geekdom's video about the current chapter and I think he may be onto something. Maybe Toyotaro's poor performance for this arc so compared to the Future Trunks Saga is that he doesn't care as much? He breezed through the Battle of Gods arc and seems to be doing the same thing here. I turned the other cheek away when he did this for BoG Saga since it's a retelling, but if the reason why this arc has been feeling a bit boring is just because he doesn't enjoy the premise of it, is a bit unprofessional on his part.

I may be wrong about this, but it seems that he really isn't giving this arc his A-game and wants to get to the ending as quick as possible. I hate to admit this... but I am now questioning Toyotaro's position as the artist for this manga. I'm still contempt with him though, I can't think of any other Dragon Ball artist who is better than him in terms of storytelling. If anybody has any ideas, feel free to let me know. Only artists I know of are DragonGarowLee and Young Jiji. (sorry if i butchered their names.) Not a fan of Jiji's fan manga's btw.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue May 22, 2018 6:01 pm

Personally, Toyo needs to be called out on this and all his other trace art. He’s an artist being paid for his work. He shouldn’t be tracing except as a guideline. He won’t grow as an artist if he keeps doing this and at worst, he can lose his job.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue May 22, 2018 6:02 pm

Exline wrote:I feel you're getting such a kick out of this.
Well, exposing scummy behavior is always cathartic.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Tue May 22, 2018 6:06 pm

HeroR wrote:Personally, Toyo needs to be called out on this and all his other trace art. He’s an artist being paid for his work. He shouldn’t be tracing except as a guideline. He won’t grow as an artist if he keeps doing this and at worst, he can lose his job.
He should be called out for tracing DB manga art in a DBS manga supervised by the said manga's author? lol. All Toyo needed to do was credit his reference

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue May 22, 2018 6:10 pm

Breaking news: some Japanese artist trace a torso of some other artist . Threat level demon , don’t go outdoors
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue May 22, 2018 6:13 pm

Enough. Drop the snark and outright rudeness. Applicable posts will be receiving account strikes.

This thread is for discussing the content of the Super manga itself, and at this point is not the place for this discussion to be had. If you want to talk about Toyotaro's actions and the moral ethics of them, then start a new topic for it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue May 22, 2018 6:14 pm

Doctor. wrote: I don't know. This puts into perspective all his previous "homages" and whether they're actually innocent, albeit pointless, callbacks to the previous series, or lazy and uninspired copies due to his own lack of talent and creativity.
I don't see how the two are even tangentially related. The other homages are homages precisely because they reference artwork within the original manga, and Toriyama has already openly said he felt like Toyotaro tried to emulate his style a little too much -- something that Toyotaro himself also acknowledged.

At most, it just establishes that he's good at mimicking the art of others, which is the only thing that could possibly tie into the situation going on right now. It's not inherently a cause for suspicion by itself though, and it certainly doesn't suddenly make those other instances grave offenses.

Edit: I didn't see the post above mine. Dropping it now.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue May 22, 2018 6:16 pm

HeroR wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Still doesn’t negate my point, especially your claim ‘only U7 did anything in the anime’. What’s funny is that Jiren is more active that Anime Jiren and he only eliminated one person.
What did U2, U4, U9, U10 and U11 accomplish in the anime exactly?
Do you realize the almighty Hakaishin Toppo was a complete joke and he achieved less than Basil?
U2 knocked out one of U7 and so did U4. U10 nearly knocked out 17 and 18 had to save him in exchange for her dropping off, btw U10 hasn’t done anything in the manga yet. U11 had Jiren with three KOs, one being Hit and the other Vegeta.

And Toppo has no knockouts in the manga either. So what’s your point here? That and God of Destruction Toppo having on KOs is mocked by Jiren.
The manga has just begun, and one guy from U4 had more eliminations than everyone from the other Universes has had in the anime.

Toppo was useless like many characters, wasted by the anime. That's my point. Of course Toyotaro is wasting even more character, I don't deny that, but the anime is just as bad.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue May 22, 2018 6:17 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
HeroR wrote:Personally, Toyo needs to be called out on this and all his other trace art. He’s an artist being paid for his work. He shouldn’t be tracing except as a guideline. He won’t grow as an artist if he keeps doing this and at worst, he can lose his job.
He should be called out for tracing DB manga art in a DBS manga supervised by the said manga's author? lol. All Toyo needed to do was credit his reference
Yes. It’s unprofessional. He isn’t the original author of the original manga so he shouldn’t be tracing except for reference. Seriously, it’s one of the first things you learn in art school.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Blank » Wed May 23, 2018 10:48 am

SuperDragoon wrote:I feel Toyotaro's tracing is another reason to dislike his manga. The anime at least never went so far as to blatantly trace another man's art.
The anime basically traced hulk slamming loki in avengers 1.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Wed May 23, 2018 10:55 am

Blank wrote:
SuperDragoon wrote:I feel Toyotaro's tracing is another reason to dislike his manga. The anime at least never went so far as to blatantly trace another man's art.
The anime basically traced hulk slamming loki in avengers 1.
They did not trace it. It was animated as a homage. There was no tracing involved with it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Blank » Wed May 23, 2018 11:01 am

majinwarman wrote:
Blank wrote:
SuperDragoon wrote:I feel Toyotaro's tracing is another reason to dislike his manga. The anime at least never went so far as to blatantly trace another man's art.
The anime basically traced hulk slamming loki in avengers 1.
They did not trace it. It was animated as a homage. There was no tracing involved with it.
But the thing is they didn't have the originality to create their own scene much like toyotaro didn't have it to create his own pose.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Wed May 23, 2018 11:05 am

Blank wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
Blank wrote: The anime basically traced hulk slamming loki in avengers 1.
They did not trace it. It was animated as a homage. There was no tracing involved with it.
But the thing is they didn't have the originality to create their own scene much like toyotaro didn't have it to create his own pose.
The director said that they wanted to have homages to Western movies. Tracing is a huge crime and can cause legal problems which Shonen Jump doesn't need.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed May 23, 2018 11:23 am

I don't see why people think Vegeta's character regressed because he declared himself the strongest. He's not wrong. Goku was slacking off while he was training.

Also, a lot of people fundamentally misunderstand Vegeta's character. From the Saiyan arc to near the end of the Buu Arc, Vegeta refused to acknowledge Goku as his superior because he is nobility and is of a higher breed than a low-class wretch. Even when Goku's power level got higher than his, he refused to acknowledge it. To Vegeta back then, strength was his birthright. His development came in him acknowledging that Goku is stronger than him and realizing why. That, however, doesn't mean he'd stop trying to be the strongest.

In short, Vegeta's development is his rivalry moving from intense self-loathing and anger to a more healthy rivalry where he and Goku push each other to be better. It's 100% in-character for him to get annoyed when they write him off as second best.

(This is a tangential point, but one I feel also needs to be stated. Vegeta isn't like Goku; he doesn't want to better himself just for its own sake. He wants to get better so he can be the best. He wants to know he's on top of the mountain, while Goku just wants to keep climbing that mountain.)
majinwarman wrote: The director said that they wanted to have homages to Western movies. Tracing is a huge crime and can cause legal problems which Shonen Jump doesn't need.
Storyboarding and choreographing are steps that essentially got skipped by ripping off the Avengers sequence. Either way, it's saving time and money.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Wed May 23, 2018 11:26 am

TKA wrote:I don't see why people think Vegeta's character regressed because he declared himself the strongest. He's not wrong. Goku was slacking off while he was training.

Also, a lot of people fundamentally misunderstand Vegeta's character. From the Saiyan arc to near the end of the Buu Arc, Vegeta refused to acknowledge Goku as his superior because he is nobility and is of a higher breed than a low-class wretch. Even when Goku's power level got higher than his, he refused to acknowledge it. To Vegeta back then, strength was his birthright. His development came in him acknowledging that Goku is stronger than him and realizing why. That, however, doesn't mean he'd stop trying to be the strongest.

In short, Vegeta's development is his rivalry moving from intense self-loathing and anger to a more healthy rivalry where he and Goku push each other to be better. It's 100% in-character for him to get annoyed when they write him off as second best.

(This is a tangential point, but one I feel also needs to be stated. Vegeta isn't like Goku; he doesn't want to better himself just for its own sake. He wants to get better so he can be the best. He wants to know he's on top of the mountain, while Goku just wants to keep climbing that mountain.)
majinwarman wrote: The director said that they wanted to have homages to Western movies. Tracing is a huge crime and can cause legal problems which Shonen Jump doesn't need.
Storyboarding and choreographing are steps that essentially got skipped by ripping off the Avengers sequence. Either way, it's saving time and money.
You think that would save time and money?! You do not understand how hard that scene was to make.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed May 23, 2018 11:29 am

Oh nice the thread is open again.
Back on topic, I'm thinking of re-reading this tournament to get a better grasp of the rhythm. Monthly releases is a long time and detrimental to fully access the medium. The Zamasu arc felt much better read in one sitting. So I'll postpone my complete thoughts of the latest chapter, just a few notes.
  • Vegeta's part was off-character for his current self, felt more like Android Arc Vegeta than anything else. Dude's still cocky but not to this degree. His speech in my opinion should much more contained and sharp, kinda like how he mocked Goku Black.
  • The gag fight was excellent, more of these please this is Dragon Ball after all. Beerus thinks Ribriane is cute. :lol:
  • Didn't enjoy the ending of Jiren vs Goku, obviously forced. Not that I don't think Jiren would retreat but the set up to stop them seems obvious.
  • I loved the way Piccolo was handled, his strong points were highlighted and as a bonus he did some cool shit.
  • Finally the return of the chaos is welcome and what really elevates the arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BlueVegerot » Wed May 23, 2018 11:57 am

DB fans can't handle it when characters don't bow down and worship Goku.

They got so pissed at Toppo hating on Goku at exhibition matches or Caulifla slapping his hand away. Now they want vegeta to just bitch out and say something like " you are right toppo, kakarot is far and away the greatest".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed May 23, 2018 11:58 am

LightBing wrote:
  • Vegeta's part was off-character for his current self, felt more like Android Arc Vegeta than anything else. Dude's still cocky but not to this degree. His speech in my opinion should much more contained and sharp, kinda like how he mocked Goku Black.
I disagree. It feels very in-step with him now. He isn't trying to kill them, or torture them because they said Goku was stronger. He was insulted because he is legitimately stronger than Goku but they're underestimating him. Just because he acknowledged Goku as stronger than him at the time of the Pure Buu fight doesn't mean he's going to roll over and forever be Goku's second fiddle.
majinwarman wrote: You think that would save time and money?! You do not understand how hard that scene was to make.
Of course it saves time and money. You literally have the template of Hulk slamming Loki into the ground. All you have to do is replicate it. You don't have to figure that shit out yourself. It's right there for you to reference. Sure it takes time to animate episodes, but the sheer fact that you're directly referencing/copying/homaging something else means you're saving time and money. It's inarguable.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Wed May 23, 2018 12:09 pm

On the topic of the tracing controversy I'm disappointed with the amount of fans who defended what he did and tried to make up excuses as why it wasn't tracing or what he did wasn't that bad. I was going to mention this yesterday but the thread ended up getting locked, but this is the last I'll mention of it.

Back to the subject at hand I'm guessing that chapter 37 will most likely feature primarily Cabba, Roshi, and Caulifla/Kale. I've been wrong about this multiple times before but I'm pretty sure that this is the one. I'm guessing that Roshi will fight the remainder of U4 and then be knocked out. And in regards to Cabba I assume he'll fight Freeza and then get knocked out as well, not sure if he'll end up going Super Saiyan 2 or not. I'm most curious about how he plans on handling Caulifla and Kale. If they end up being a one and done deal then I wonder how he will make Kale mastering her transformation not feel rushed unless he doesn't include it. I'd be fine with him skipping over her Broly form as that was the worst aspect of her in the anime. I assume they'll probably fight the lesser pride troopers and this is we're well see Caulifla use SS for the first time. Also hope that instead of fighting Goku they fight Freeza as I feel that would be more interesting than them fighting Goku. Though I wouldn't be surprised if none of this ended up happening considering how bad I am at predicting stuff.

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